Angel

I suppose I can't say anything about the episodes I saw (the two most recent WB reruns) in case the British are all pissy about spoilers, but I think spoilers are funny: I see two thirds of my Buffy episodes in reruns, and I kind of enjoy fitting together the pieces from the three different segments of time I'm seeing, taking advantage of the information I get from all of them (plus just doing that within the last-season reruns since I didn't see them all).

Have the lawyer always been there? What's their deal?

the lawyers: they're evil, duh.

The problem, increasingly throughout the second season and now strongly in the third season, is that they're far too incompetent compared to the enormous capital and magical outlay that goes into their continued operation, with all of the visible members coming off more like witless and powerless individuals than representatives of a scary conglomerate. It would be cool if this was somehow a comment on Enron etc. but I think it's more the product of a writing stalemate - the creative arc demands that both Angel and W&F manage to continue on relatively intact for poss. a couple of seasons - which the whole "W&F want to keep Angel alive for later use" excuse seems less able to cover the longer it remains unsubstantiated by a glimpse of the firm's plans.

Also, the writers should either really expand Lilah's character as they did with her former partner/rival or just kill her off and move on up the heirarchy. Her new partner/rival is just hopeless, if depressingly accurate - his "evil" is exactly the same as that of many of my fellow law students.

I prefer Angel to Buffy: I love the theme music and the crying, terrified individuals in LA bars in the opening sequence. I also find the big brooding destructive man learning how to love, comfort and care on a personal and abstract level more of a moving storyline than the old "buffy must learn patience and take care of all around her" thing.

Wolf Ram and Hart (geddit) are fantastic too: their incompetence surely stems from the chaotic nature of the powers they enrol: as often as not they double back and destroy their agents.

have they always had all the flashbacks?

The ones on Angel have tended to focus around the vampire hunter in the lead-up to him being brought into the show, but earlier on when the focus was on Darla his inclusion was if I recall incidental and occasional.

A thought: i like Gunn and Fred (plus Loren!), but does anyone else agree that Angel worked really well as a three-character show (Angel, Cordelia and that other guy; then Angel, Cordelia and Wesley)? I think I liked the idea of a small number of characters being utterly dependent on eachother and sort of suffering a bit due to their isolation from everything else. Similarly the interaction with that police woman worked well as a constant reminder of Angel's inability to integrate with society. With so many people in the hotel these days, the need to integrate with society seems a lot less pressing.

I got into Buffy last year and was simultaneously watching series 1 on BBC, Series 2 and 3 on Sky and series 5 on TV3. Its ahrdly so sophisticated that you can't happily patch it together. And the Breeders have been playing the theme music on tur lately.

Lorne's the best character in Angle but then I liked Villa in Blakes 7.

If nothing else it gives me an excuse to make more butter jokes.

I stood around a bit earlier today in that "must think of something to do for five minutes rather than leave for work" space, and thought, it's season five, isn't it? How they fly. Darla, Medieval, Deep sea, Jasmine - all seem like quite silly end-of-season cliffhangers. On the other hand the focus on plot allows them to pack a lot into each season.

I like Angel, it's unrepentant good fun. The intensity of the plot and the way it winds around actors dropping out gives it a certain soap opera quality (Cordelia! Angel's son! Office love triangle! all gone). But the plot happens to the characters, and then the plot leaves and the characters remain: the Wesley in the new series is pretty much exactly the "indiana jones of the occult" in the writer's handbook for season 1.

The show finally finding its feet = Andy Hallett in the main credits.

i know channel 4 are no longer showing it, and i wouldn't mind so much but you can't rent the dvds for the new season.... wah

i mean i *could* download them but it'd take forever....

ch5 had the rights to the series after the one on ch4 but they soon moved it to midnight and then stopped it in mid season. things don't look good.

andy

This new law firm/Spike shit is really not doing it for me so far.

(There are UK s5 spoilers on here right?)

anyone think they'll bring doyle back? I was surprised to see him referenced and even shown. I thought the actor and Whedon had a giant falling out which was why he got killed off.

That's because it's not really wrapped up. He's coming back later this season.

I doubt there's any chance of Doyle coming back because the actor (Glen Quinn) who played him died a while back.

The end of the Buffyverse... I can't fucking believe it.

I'm more interested by the rumored Firefly movie - that half-season was better than almost any post-S3 Buffy season.

Wesley was the best character on any show ever.

Man, remembering all the characters that died in both shows is actually making me sad in a good way. BTW, I've always thought Xander's reaction to Anya's death to be strangely subdued in his instant acceptance of it.

hm, honestly Season 1 has Doyle, who is a cool character... also, the Wesley character arc is pretty much worth the whole series, as far as I'm concerned. Faith also makes a presence (it was after her and Buffy switched bodies and back), but I was a huge Faith fan. Ooooh, and "I Will Remember You" was a pretty kick-ass episode also, unless you hate the whole Angel-Buffy thing.

I say if you're gonna do it, do it right.

My favourite bit of S1 is where Angel and Wesley do a dance over the end credits. I think Angel might be wearing a fair aisle jumper!

xpost - I haveonly just got up to Conor, but I think he is probably DUD.

FAIR ISLE.

"Begorrah Darla didn't I go and suck his blud to be sure leprechaun holy mary rot in hell OI'M OIVUL YAR KNAR".

My typing went a bit Geordie there, sorry.

This should have been the title of EVERY flashback episode with pre-vampiric Angel in it.

(That's another thing, slocki, as far as setup goes: the show mildly reinvents itself and its principals as it goes, by flashing back to way before the Buffy era and telling us Untold Tales Of The Vampires. For better or worse, the show really never stopped setting itself up.)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/61/224024533_6203a356aa.jpg

Ha ha Sarah otm.

The thing that struck me about season one of Torchwood is how badly it wanted be Angel and just flubbed it every step of the way. Maybe they need a Lila. I think she may be one of my favorite characters ever.

Here - you no longer have to watch "She": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GstpsPxX4A

(This thread seems like as lame a place as any to point out that I was watching a bit of Buffy season 7 a few weeks ago, during the whole "Spike's crazy in the basement" period, and one of his random ravings is "you're all glowing ... what's a word that means glowing? It has to rhyme" -- where the word he's looking for is the EFFULGENT from his much-referenced poem.)

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b106789_angel_star_andy_hallett_dies_of_heart.html

Bummer...

R.I.P.

aw, he was funny on angel. : (

can i just start on season 2 or

Yeah, it's not like you'll be confused by the set-up. You'll already know 3 of the 4 people in the opening credits from Buffy, and I think the 4th is introduced to the others in that very episode. And I think season 2 is a lot better than season 1.

Looking at the episode list (some spoilers of course) it's true the vast majority of the first season is unnecessary - particularly the stuff with Kate and Doyle - but the last few episodes might be worth tracking down since there's the Faith episode and the introduction of Gunn. The pilot is also worth watching. Fortunately the entire first season is up on Hulu.

unfortunately hulu isn't available in canada :(

All the Whedon shows just went up on Netflix instant streaming, so I figured I'd watch some episodes I never got around to watching in syndication. Damn that early Angel - a sensitivity training demon?!?