US POLITICS: underrated supreme court decisions that i have read

http://thetyrannyofevilmen.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/the-day-after-tomorrow-poster-2.jpg

would like to commend J0rdan for an outstanding politics thread title

would like to preemptively disagree with iatee about how awesome the president is

I just think it's a weird coincidence that you've hated every black president we've ever had, that's all

lol

me & k3vin & iatee just disagreein baout stuff

I'm off work in about five minutes so you better explain how kagan is god quick iats

I want to know the thread starter's answer before I venture any of my own. That's only fair, right?

oops...was away in a failed attempt to sleep.

so I guess for me what it comes down to is:

a. I'm willing to believe obama knows his shit when it comes to the SC and is not just acting on poor advice (as may be the case w/ say, lots of economic stuff)
b. I'm willing to believe that at his core he's a moderate-left dude w/ our country's best interests in mind.
c. I'm willing to believe that he knows a lot more about woods and kagan than we do.
d. while this may be a political decision on some level - that's to say ease of confirmation plays *some* role - I still really can't believe that he didn't go w/ the person who he honestly believed was better for the job. his criteria might have been different than yours.

so yeah I guess at the end of the day it comes down to me looking at the 'I got this' obama gif one too many times or something.

haha 'woods'

gnite

yeah in that ny times magazine story on the obama staffers in their 20s, it mentioned how obama had distributed copies of the new Woods album after it leaked onto what.cd

wonder if he would have gone for wood if he still had a 60 seat majority in the senate.

shame he couldn't go for wood last year and sotomayor this year.

Obama is our Harvard Law Review President, Kagan a Harvard Law Review choice. I was CR-CL, so screw 'em.

she's already said there's no “there is no federal constitutional right to same-sex marriage” so there goes any chance of the court legislating same-sex marriage when perry v schwarzenegger hits next year. ugh.

is a separate Kagan thread easier to manage?

I'm willing to believe

Words one should never use about any president.

lol

a. I'm willing to believe obama knows his shit when it comes to the SC and is not just acting on poor advice (as may be the case w/ say, lots of economic stuff)
b. I'm willing to believe that at his core he's a moderate-left dude w/ our country's best interests in mind.
c. I'm willing to believe that he knows a lot more about woods and kagan than we do.
d. while this may be a political decision on some level - that's to say ease of confirmation plays *some* role - I still really can't believe that he didn't go w/ the person who he honestly believed was better for the job. his criteria might have been different than yours.

so yeah I guess at the end of the day it comes down to me looking at the 'I got this' obama gif one too many times or something.

― iatee, Monday, May 10, 2010 2:10 AM (7 hours ago)

yeah man again what does "best for the job" mean? you don't seem to care

anyway this is on the news now, statement expected any moment

lol new thread :/

yup

Huge list of republicans (mostly Dick Cheney) saying "Luck has nothing to do with it." re: Bush's record of stopping attacks.

http://www.slate.com/id/2253480/?from=rss

Meanwhile, pobrecita:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/05/young-republican-fed-chair-resigns/56463/

very respectful

wait

is that, like the actual verbatim text of the letter?

because... holy shit, she's crazy

yeah srsly what is going on there

Meanwhile, in stuff that actually matters right now -- Obama & Holder go ballsless on Miranda rights:

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2010/05/10/miran-duhhhhh/

aw they fixed it

I should have copied what was originally up there

ha it's just been corrected. a couple minutes ago it had "Respectfully Audra Shay" like six times

xps

meat of the Taibbi column:

The reason I really respect the Ron Paul people is that they’re consistent on all of these things. If they don’t want the government telling you you can’t buy a gun, they also don’t want the federal government telling you not to smoke weed or patronize a prostitute. Paul understands that you can’t make appeals on general principle unless you actually believe in that principle across the board....

The point is that this gesture by Eric Holder to drop to his knees and pray at the altar of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Sarah Palin is one of those things that both sides are going to end up seriously regretting.

For the Democrats, it will surely end up being one of the darker moments of the Obama presidency — not because it’s necessarily so terribly meaningful (at least compared to ending Too-Big-to-Fail), but because it represents a new low on the utter-lack-of-balls front. The only reason we’re even talking about this Miranda issue is because a bunch of morons on talk radio made a big fuss about it, and if our president is going to go sticking his thumbs into the constitution every time he can’t take a few days of getting reamed by a bunch of overpaid media shills whose job it is to hate him no matter what he does, then we’re all in a lot of trouble.

The reason I really respect the Ron Paul people

Good night.

yr mind is open, I can feel the draft from here.

I shouldn't say anything more, Matt'll hunt me down and fling coffee all over me and it will sting.

morbs not sure why you included the part about ron paul since it really has nothing to do w/ the issue at hand

also, ask the ron paul people about abortion sometime

^ this!

although they'd say they don't want the *federal* gov't to say you can't have one so to them it's consistent enough

Being principled doesn't actually matter if the principles you stick to are horrible.

About the only thing this reveals is that most people will backtrack, which is a real big fucking shock to me as I approach 40. Oh, actually it isn't.

yeah spencer ackerman took the same tack over the weekend

http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2010/05/09/eric-holders-lunch-money/

i don't really buy it. i don't think they're afraid of right wingers, i think holder/obama just genuinely think miranda needs more holes in it for national security stuff. the fear of the right is giving them too much credit, frankly.

yeah at a certain point, given the administration has fucked up about everything it's done, it's time to stop making excuses and realize we're in for a lot of centrist policy

given the administration has fucked up about everything it's done

what, like blowing up an oil rig?

it's time to stop making excuses and realize we're in for a lot of centrist policy

what are your excuses for not expecting this the day he was elected?

a lot of centrist policy

Would be happier if O tried harder to move the center away from the rightward-shift it's been stuck on since Ike was prez and Stalin was the big enemy, tbh.

his own promises?

jesus i feel like i'm threading the narrowest needle here.

xp

obama's first year has been a record of immense policy successes that only look bad held against more solidly left-liberal proposals that were DOA given the infuriating legislative situation we have. and then there is a whole other class of outright betrayals in keeping a lot of the bush legal architecture in place w/r/t exec power, transparency, and the war on terror

given the administration has fucked up about everything it's done

don't think this is even remotely true, sorry. withdrawing from Iraq = great. Stimulus bill/ARRA = great. HCR = okay, better than nothing. Bail-outs = eh, okay whatever (this country being owned/run by an oligarchy not a big surprise to me). SC noms = pretty good. Banning torture/closing Gitmo = pretty good, gettin there.

it's time to stop making excuses and realize we're in for a lot of centrist policy

this is always what we were in for, sorry you deluded yrself

goole OTM

given the administration has fucked up about everything it's done

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspect5es.gif

kev when you're 25 and still in school and you get into a car accident and have to go to the hospital and it gets covered by your mom's medical insurance, you might be able to look back and say "maybe they didn't fuck up... EVERYTHING"

'centrism' = mostly Bushism with nice talk

Being principled doesn't actually matter if the principles you stick to are horrible.

Don't start bringing morality into POLITICS.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll477.xml

---- NAYS 38 ---

Bachmann
Barrett (SC)
Bartlett
Broun (GA)
Burton (IN)
Campbell
Carter
Chaffetz
Conaway
Djou
Flake
Franks (AZ)
Gohmert
Graves (GA)
Hensarling
Herger
Inglis
King (IA)
Kingston
Linder
Mack
McClintock
Miller (FL)
Myrick
Nunes
Paul
Pence
Poe (TX)
Price (GA)
Rohrabacher
Rooney
Royce
Shadegg
Smith (NE)
Stearns
Thornberry
Westmoreland
Young (AK)

US military casualties in Vietnam: 58,151
US military casualties in Afghanistan: 8,357

this is why most American people do not care about the military's antics in Afghanistan, and will continue not to care.

One more important difference: Vietnam = draft, Afghanistan/Iraq = no draft

w/r/t to the political reception (vs the "vietnam is literally not afghanistan" reception), i think the draft is hueg

very few americans know young men or women abroad right now

Dear x,

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Our support of causes and candidates is based strictly on issues that affect our retail and business objectives. To continue to grow and create jobs and opportunity in our home state, we believe it is imperative to be engaged in public policy and the political process. That is why we are members of organizations like the Minnesota Business Partnership, the Chamber of Commerce and many others. And that is why we decided to contribute to MN Forward.

MN Forward's objective is to elect candidates from both parties who will make job creation and economic growth a top priority. We operate best when working collaboratively with legislators on both sides of the aisle. In fact, if you look at our Federal PAC contributions year to date, you will see that they are very balanced between Republicans and Democrats. For more information please visit www.target.com/company, and view the Civic Activity page.

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Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback.

Sincerely,

Jennifer Hanson
Target Executive Offices

I just a letter myself. Having the form letter response was useful in writing it, to pre-rebut the rebuttal.

just sent a letter

if you really think we're fighting terrorism, plz let's invade Pakistan. More loot besides.

What's more important than any one candidate's stance on a particular issue is how we nurture thoughtful, long-term growth in the state of Minnesota.

Yeah this is only true up to a point is the problem, though this particular line is trotted out by people on either side when they're trying to minimize anger/disillusionment - "look at the bigger picture, don't boil everything down to one issue" - absolutely agree! is the issue "shitting all over people's rights to live as they see fit" though? because that one's non-negotiable

fuckin assholes

you realize that most people, when comparing them, will just say "duh they are both WARS" and stop thinking, right

yep, most people, such as renowned historians.

i guess chalk it up to different priorities but killing scores of thousands of innocent people is enough to give me pause when considering if this "war" is worth it

from one modern progressive cause to another - White House proposal would ease FBI access to records of Internet activity

in b4 "I don't see how this really changes that much so if you're mad you're fronting" & "let's not jump to any conclusions"

the addresses to which an Internet user sends e-mail; the times and dates e-mail was sent and received; and possibly a user's browser history. It does not include, the lawyers hasten to point out, the "content" of e-mail or other Internet communication.

"see? see how thin this wedge is?"

in b4 "I don't see how this really changes that much so if you're mad you're fronting" & "let's not jump to any conclusions"

― gross rainbow of haerosmith (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, July 29, 2010 12:36 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude this is getting really grating

dont know shit abt what yall are talking about but just want to dismiss more d@rnl3llien cynicism real quick
Congress Passes Historic Legislation to Reduce Crack/Powder Cocaine Sentencing Disparity

dude this is getting really grating

oh please dude I have reduced my carping a whole fucking lot but you know how it is, asking for perfection is like wanting a pony

... but life really IS like that

glad to see deej enjoying the half-full glass & dead fucking silent on everything that's sucked ass for the last however long though - kip my man

"oil spill, financial reform, abortion rights...who gives a shit, here's something kinda ok"

but ... im not 'silent' on those things at all ---

& wasnt 'financial reform' a partly positive thing? how is that not kind of ok

but ... im not 'silent' on those things at all ---

well you kinda are tho

I mean "I don't know what shit yall are talking about" when what we're talking about is "White House proposal would ease FBI access to records of Internet activity" - I wrote a longer post on your other thread about this, but didn't wanna get in a big thing on a thread where the issue is clearly one you're passionate about. the sense of it was, with you I celebrate a saner approach to the prosecution of drug felonies -- I'd guess I don't share your passion for the issue, since for me the issue is complicated for by anger & grief over what crack does to the neighborhoods & communities it ravages -- I would be considerably more stoked if we were talking about increasing the available job training & rehabilitation for people who have viewed selling dope as their only option (but that'd be cast as "funding for drug addicts," so no Dem admin would have the stones to propose it, even though it's what would actually help) -- but all that aside, any pleasure I take in a saner sentencing policy is tempered by, on the same day, a proposal from the White House which the Post summarizes:

The Obama administration is seeking to make it easier for the FBI to compel companies to turn over records of an individual's Internet activity without a court order if agents deem the information relevant to a terrorism or intelligence investigation.

That's what the admin is doing.

but it's really "grating" to try to head off all the minimizing & excuse-making about it that's pops up like daisies every time, which themselves are not grating but always new & fresh

it would just be nice if you waited to say that stuff until AFTER someone tried defending obama

you make me want to defend the dude just to disagree with you

look man. to me, and not only to me I think, it seems that with this Democratic administration (a term I use pointedly; I don't think "Obama" gets any extra credit/blame here, any other Democrat in office would be doing the same and probably worse), there are many people, yourself among them, who advocate what they believe, and present, as a reasonable benefit-of-the-doubt approach: to sort through the issues & the actions taken about them, assuming good faith on the part of the actors. I don't assume any good faith on the part of the actors. I think the actors are people who actively spend time & money trying to figure out how they can twist the law to allow them to illegally detain & torture people, which is enough for me to make me think "whatever they're doing, I bet there's a real shitty side to it." I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take with respect to the following admins: Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan. Carter I'm not so sure about. Nixon, obviously. Basically every president around for as long as I've been alive seems like a guy who any person sharing my core values (which I think can be summed up by the phrase "human rights") would be intensely, permanently suspicious of. The benefit of the doubt doesn't seem like a prudent thing to afford any of these guys. Why not say "people are going to find a way to defend this"? They do. Which is frustrating. Even you will have to concede that any action taken by the admin finds its defenders on these threads!

the thing is john if i posted "congress passes job training for inner city" u would be like "but when will they get rid of the systematic racism of the imbalance in crack vs cocaine sentencing" (or at least imo you SHOULD) its never 'good enough' bcuz what your asking for is the entire world

i only said i 'dont know what going on' bcuz i haven't read that article, or any articles about it -- thats not the same as me 'being silent' or hearing about some bad shit & pretending it doesnt exist, which is what it sounds like yr accusing me of

deej I checked this thread, there's been a lot of shit goin down about which you haven't seemed to give much of a shit for a couple of months!

john this isnt about good-faith disagreement! i really genuinely dont care about the substance of your disagreements with obama, many of which i share. its just about the irritating always-on-the-offense immediacy of the sarcastic "havent you heard, you cant ask for unicorns" comments, which now are coming before anyone even makes a half assed attempt at an obama defense

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/08/03/future460.jpg

wrt to Afghanistan, wars provide jobs, & so this newish "surge" is just another stimulus package. So the war is not ending so long as the Fed permits us to print money for wars but not for other stimuli.

xp to max, I haven't done much of that lately afaik, you have successfully made me feel bad about it even though I find what I see as admin-stanning as repetitive & bullshitty as my own bullshit, but it seemed like a pretty obvious thing here in the wake of the giganto docs leak being spun with "nothing we didn't know, was this really necessary?" which attitude toward freedom of the press has really put a bug up my ass

btw why are you guys even awake, I have an excuse in that my time zones are fucked up but yall should be sawing laws ttbomk

i work the gawker night shift

i dunno i thought saw you do it somewhere else i was like *rdme* but maybe im just in an irritable mood, either way i value ur contributions to politics threads and think you are a handsome friend

i live in australia

Wait, aerosmith is johnD?!

no, jaymc

do we have to do this every two weeks?

i live in australia

no you do not, they don't have umm whatever food it was you were into on a food thread

too tired to actually research the joke, too jetlagged to sleep

I've been too busy drinkin' and jobhuntin' to keep up with name changes. Plus when I check this thread at the end of the day, we'll have like 300 post dust-ups that I can't be arsed to track.

it would be awesome if when people make the connection they didn't always intentionally defeat the purpose of my changing handles by asking about it onthread, thereby necessitating yet another login & handle-change, but with deej doing his totally unnecessary type-out-an-obscured-last-name thing (which nobody fucking did to you, dude) & sure callbacks on the strategy every time he gets mad, I guess we can be expecting the arrival of overrated richie blackmore albums I have sold within a few months

david dr4k3

max I was tryna take the high road, jeez

btw why are you guys even awake

good question -- 3 AM drinking hot chocolate from DD w/ a fan on imo

hang in there dd

Someone want to start a new thread soon? As it is I'm telling Firefox to brace itself when I hit "show all messages."

Mods, lock thread please, start new one with suggested title, "US Politics: Underrated Obama Decisions That I Love"

We generally restart at 5000 posts, right?

US Politics: LOOK AT MY RIGHTEOUS COCK

there you go