Books on Mormonism

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Ned mentioned that he has an interest in Mormon history, or something of that sort. Would anyone (Ned?) like to recommend some books on the subject? I have been seeing a lot of new books about the Mormon church over the last couple years. Just in the past year I think I've read reviews for six or seven.

― DeRayMi, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(indirectly: SHOT IN THE HEART by mikal gilmore is a great book with some speedread mormon history in it)

― mark s, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The problem with Mormonism is that there are very few good academic books which attempt to be non biased. the only one that I know of is Blooms book on American Religon. There is also Fawn Brodies No Man Knows My History.
If you want theology you may have to go straight to the horses mouth- ie Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R McConkie, which is a pain to find if you are not LDS.

― anthony, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Interesting peripheral comments on Mormonism in Baurdillard's America which I've enjoyed lately. You know, probably not what you're looking for, but good nonetheless.

― OCP, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

New books I'm unfortunately not as heavily up on -- as Anthony said, Brodie's No Man Knows My History is essential, search for the revised version if you can.

If you want a massive list of sources -- not just books -- try this page from the exmormon.org folks. I'd mentioned it on that other thread, but to say again, A Gathering of Saints by Robert Lindsay, though at points melodramatic, is still a fine true crime story as well as a portrayal of the current church as little more than a very paranoid commercial enterprise.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Bastard end tags, let me tell ya.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Has anyone read anything by D. Michael Quinn? He seems to be a big author on this subject. (He writes BIG books, anyway.)

A lot of books on the LDS cross my path and look interesting, but so far I have not been inspired to begin any.

― DeRayMi, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

He's tackled issues of homosexuality and homophobia in the church, I know that much. Anthony, yer thoughts?

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

We have a big fat book here in the library by Quinn claiming connections between Joseph Smith's ideas and various occult/magicakl/esoteric traditions of his time.

― DeRayMi, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Which is pretty accurate. There's a hell of a lot of Freemasonry in the whole garment and temple ritual deal -- this sublink in the one page I linked can tell you more.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hail Baphomet!

― DeRayMi, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, I've read too many CHICK Publications cartoon tracts.

Okay, how about these newish titles:

One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church by Richard Abanes. (650 pages.)

The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship by David J. Buerger.

― DeRayMi, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

He bashes mormonism a bit too much for my tastes, if you are going to work on eligous texts, you have to take their precepts a bit seriously.

― anthony, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There was a Time magazine article entitled, Mormons, Inc. (link to review), there is a book out on the same name, or close to it that's very interesting. They claim to be "Christians, just like you" but believe God was once a man, and that a good Mormon and his wife will become a God themselves on equivalent to our God. Not IMO the same thing other Christian churches believe, IMO, and I'm suprised no Mormon understands this distinction (notice I am NOT accusing them of attempting to deceive people, which would be something the Devil and his followers would do).

Anyway, the book was written with Mormon scholars, so isn't very pro or con Mormonism, but their history is pretty bizarre.

Bazooka Joe

― 2, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

So I am reading this:

http://cheshiredave.com/mastication/covers/200309/images/krakauer1.jpg

Mormons are crazy! Especially the crazy ones!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, the Mormon faith made much more sense to me when I finally learned how many of its tenets rest on the idea of America as god's chosen land and the whole book of Mormon's retelling of American history to include visits by Jesus after the resurrection and the suggesting that Native Americans were originally some kind of Judaic people. It's "Americanness: is what makes Mormonism so fascinating, I guess.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i took a class on new american religions in college and we talked alot about the mormons. their theology is very 'american' in the way that it doesnt really fuck around with high minded concepts.

q: what happens to my body when i die?
a: YOU KEEP IT!

q: what happens to my family when i die?
a: YOU KEEP THEM TOO!

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Mark Twain, people.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

q: what happens to people from other religions when they die?
a: WE KEEP THEM TOO!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

haha. didnt some jewish group make a big deal about the mormons baptizing dead holocaust survivors and such?

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, as well they should.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I love that dead people can get baptized. And you can get baptized in other people's names. The good part is, having been born in Salt Lake City, there's TOTALLY still Mormons praying for me. See you in purgatory SUCKAS!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

There are more MORMONS in AMERICA than JEWS! I find that amazing. Where are they all hiding?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

There's that temple in oakland. I feel like going and staring at it.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost they're hiding in Utah.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

well see, thats the beauty of it. those mormons WILL be waiting for you when youre dead, lingering in purgatory.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

with their special underwear on.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

All Mormon artwork is right out of a Cecil B. Demille movie:

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/images/moroni.jpg

I mean, yes, Jesus gets a little white in Catholic churches, but all of these guys look like the Baltimore Colts.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously... they're POPULATING THE EARTH!!!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Another review of a hot new Mormon Studies book crossed my desk lately, but I can't remember the details. It's published by the same publisher (or U. Press imprint?) that publishes lots of this stuff. Sorry, I'm very vague about all of this. I still haven't read anything. (Since 9/11 about a million books bearing on current political events have been released, and half of them are on my reading list.)

x-post: That's Jesus?!

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - whereas Fundamentalist Mormon artworks look like Hermann Nitsch...

(I'll spare ILX anything more graphic but look here if you like: http://images.google.com/images?q=hermann%20nitsch&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

No, that's Moroni. Looooooong story.

(the painting, not the dude.)

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

thats the dude who buried the gold book joe smith found up upstate NY. according to the mormons, he was the last of the white people in north america until white people came back under the banner of spain in the 1400s. and yeah, its a long story.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was a kid there was a Mormon family who lived a couple houses down. The whole neighborhood new each other and we were relatively friendly with one another. The Mormon kids (they had about 6) couldn't do ANYTHING on Sunday. We asked them what they did do then, and they said "blah blah blah and we'll have family meetings". This was hysterical to us! The next Sunday all the other neighborhood kids gathered and peeked in their window to observe their little meeting. Oh how we teased them for it.
There was this HOT Mormon chick in my HS---didn't look Mormon, ie dark skin, hair, and eyes---and their was a cycle of guys who'd date her and then quickly give up after not being able to get anywhere with her.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

What does the underwear look like?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Does anyone ever wear it ironically?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's Moroni paying a little visit to Joe Smith.

And I'm still looking for the "before" pics from this series.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if Jaymc or oops dated the hot Mormon chick in oops and Jaymc's suburban Chicago high school.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost thanks hstencil.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

some of those mormon girls were super repressed. if you could crack that exterior youd have some serious pent up sluttery on your hands.

sadly, i only know from what i hear, not first hand experience.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

No we were in "honors" classes and therefore had a very bad pool to select from.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The funniest story of all was my parents friend... When the Mormons would come around he would invite them in and tell them he used to live in Salt Lake City. As the Mormons would listen rapturously, he would say:

"Yeah, we actually lived next to the President of the Church. And, you know, the messages from God [1], well. They wouldn't come down in a cylinder. It was more of a cone. So, some of it would come onto our house."

At which point his wife would usually come in and tell him to stop teasing the Mormons.

[1] Another funny aspect of the Mormons is that God is in constant contact with the President of the Church. Some people would call this dementia, but there you go.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I never had the heart to ask any of the missionaries about the salamander story.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow....

http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob1.gif

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

THEY'RE POPULATING OTHER UNIVERSES TOO!!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Another book on Mormonism

http://www.chick.com/tractimages44639/0061/0061_01.gif

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I went to high school with a gay Mormon Objectivist. Dude was crazy.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

De-baptize the Mormons!

"'De-bapping' is done on a specially consecrated Macintosh G-4 computer, known as the Mac A/B."

Oy vey.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, goodness... I have so much to say on this subject. Being the little maladjusted nerd that my parents feared would turn into a little maladjusted man, it struck my father as a good idea to enroll me in a mormon scout troop. I was in it for three years ... god, have I got stories for another time ... but the LDSers tried to convert me any number of times, argued against Newtonian physics, all sorts of weird shit. I gotta find time to type this out. I can vouch for the underwear and enlighten a little more on temples ... as one of a rather limited number of non-mormons who's been in one.

― j e r e m y (x Jeremy), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Where are all the books on Momusism?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

They've been locked up by a librarian.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

He's got a glossy monthly instead.

― j e r e m y (x Jeremy), Friday, 25 June 2004 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

there was a pretty good thing on the mormons in the ny'er about 2 years ago. you could feel the writer straining his journalistic fairness muscle to choke back his contempt something terrible. the bit on the coke/no-coke split especially.

― g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 25 June 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

who needs a book when you've got us?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 June 2004 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)

If anyone here really wants some insight into Mormonism (other than heresay and jokes) try finding Hugh Nibley's "Of All Things" and "Reflections on Mormonism, Judaeo Christian Parallels" which has several essays by different authors, but edited by Truman G. Madsen. Some of these essays: Preexistence in Hellenic, Judaic and Mormon Sources, The Meaning of Ritual Comparisons, Grace and Works in Martin Luther and Joseph Smith, Imago Dei:Man in the Image of God--most are looking for "parallels," and similarities in beliefs, and by that process, of course, differences that give the Mormon ethos its sweep and coherence and inclusiveness.

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

PS I agree that Bloom's book on American Religion is excellent.

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Secret Ceremonies by Deborah Laake. She was a devout Mormon, her family are all devout Mormons. The book is her story of marrying a Mormon jerk and the process of getting unmarried from him. She was excommunicated from the church for publishing this book, which describes in detail temple ceremonies and the beliefs about godhood for men and the role of women in the church. I made my daughter read this one when she was dating a (relatively nice) Mormon boy. Here's an excerpt.

― Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 27 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't believe everything you read in Secret Ceremonies. Whether or not the author of this book was "devout" or not, most of the book is subjective. I hope your daughter took everything she read with a grain of salt!

She describes the "clumsy" temple clothing as a "mean-spirited conspiracy against sex-appeal," which she "hated" and "felt like a freak" wearing. She "hated" how Monty looked and "brooded" over the "mumbo jumbo" of the ceremony. She worried that there "might be something flawed" in herself.

Well. Duh.

"Brittle" she admits to being, having tried to kill herself, and suffering a "complete emotional breakdown" before the age of 30. So she's not a Mormon anymore. Whatever else she's not, she's not much of a writer either.

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Sunday, 27 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Shakespeare said it best: "The fault, dear Brutas, is not in our stars, But in ourselves....

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

PS It's amazing to me that the links provided here are all quoting the malcontents, the "anti's." Don't you think thats a little bit like going to the White Power Skinheads for reliable
insights into African-American culture, or to the Nazi's for an understanding of Judaism?

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

If you want insightful information, you should have asked for books on Momusism

― Skottie, Sunday, 27 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Right. And just look what happened to him! By the way, do you know why Mormon women stop having babies at forty?

Because forty-one are just too many! Hehe. (That's an oldie, but a goodie),

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Sunday, 27 June 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Well I never did read any of those, but what do the experts think of this new biography:

Joseph Smith : Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Lyman Bushman.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Sunday, 25 September 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

Great, now I have an image of Joseph Smith playing the 'tasty licks' of "Tumbling Dice."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 September 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

read it this summer, lots of info/history about Mormonism proper as well as its extremist offshoots. recommended.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 25 September 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/covers/1-4000-3280-6.gif

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 25 September 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

M, were you referring to the Bushman or the Krakauer? I've not read the latter but a friend whose background is Mormon and is getting her PhD in history at UCI with a focus on Mormon history felt it was overly simplistic.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 September 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

Krakauer. He's a journalist so maybe an Mormon academic would find it simplistic, but it felt thoroughly researched and devoid of speculation to me anyway. Seemed like Krakauer went out of his way to avoid conflating mainstream Mormonism with its fundamentalist sects and polygamy cults. But I don't think any Mormon could rationalize Joseph Smith's beliefs and ideas, as somebody with a Catholic background and education the basic tenets of Mormonism strikes me as bizarre and potentially manipulative. It's a cult.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 25 September 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

nibley is crazy and secret cermonies is shit. read both as anthro and nothing more

― anthony, Sunday, 25 September 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

I'm reading "No Man Knows My History" right now and it's fascinating, I highly recommend it. I wouldn't consider it "unbiased" though, she obviously considers Smith a con man.

― n/a (Nick A.), Sunday, 25 September 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

i think that she constructs smith as v. charasmatic and v. problematic, but i dont think it is as clear conman as others in the genre.

unbiased as in, less biased then either side, not pure and clean

― anthony, Sunday, 25 September 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

really really good essay in this months nyrb by larry mcmutry about the morg

― anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:49 (nineteen years ago)

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