Golf - classic or dud

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Dud, obviously. I mean, there's no player interaction for a start.

― DV, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

new boring middleclass social climber answers

― DV, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sorry I'm going to stick up for golf. Golf is CLASSIC! Golf on TV is soothing and pleasant to watch, reminds me of Sunday afternoons as a child watching it with my parents, loads of days at the Irish Open drinking beer and lying around in the sun.

Playing golf is something I won't do till I'm a good bit older but it is the best activity for people as they get older. Very social, not too strenuous, lots of dinners/drinking sessions. I love golf on BBC, Alex Hay is such a polite and good humoured man. There's no sport left on TV with as little glitz as Golf right down to the commentators.

Ah golf.....I even love the rippling applause and the noise when they hit the ball

― Ronan, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The stupidest "sport" ever created, and that's saying a lot. It was probably one of Momus's ancestors that created as a grand art prank on the upper classes.

― Nicole, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Peter Allis = satan.

― Andrew L, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf is great, what other sports enable men to wear pastel shades?

― davel, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

classic!!!

its just great, can't explain why exactly, its perfectly sedate to watch, but things do sort of coalesce into being. as for playing, i have to make do with the occasional round of pitch and putt

― gareth, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's not the golf so much as the sodding golf courses that I mind. Firstly they encourage murder as bodies are always being found on golf courses (well not always but sometimes. Occasionally). Secondly they take up land that could be used for better things. Where I grew up in leafy Bucks it was golf courses a-go-go for all the middle aged commuter men and they put one on top of the pick your own strawberries farm where I used to stuff my face and get sunburnt as a child. Then when I was living in Spain at the povvy end of the Costa del Sol there were severe water shortages so we had no water from 8pm onwards and if you forgot to fill a bath / bucket before you went out you were stuffed but OH LOOK just outside town is the swanky golf course they had some big competition on a few years back and they are sprinklering that all hours of the day grrr. OK so they need them for the tourist euro but still it's irritating.

Rant over.

― Emma, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

''Peter Allis = satan.''

am sad i am missing the open (already missed wimbledon and the eng sri lanka test series) but the good thing abt missing the open is not hearing Peter allis' 'commentary'. It's just torture really.

― Julio Desouza, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Grew up a bit of a golf nut in the very early eighties -- still think Tom Watson's amazing chip shot in the US Open on the seventeenth hole ranks up there as a Great Moment. But this fascination could well be due to location -- my grandparents lived in Pebble Beach, home of some of the best courses in the States or anywhere, and where that particular Open was held that year. My parents live in Carmel now literally within walking distance from the beach where you can see some of the courses, and seeing the courses and the whole setting is for me just part of home, a nostalgia-of-the-present I can't and won't deny. Don't follow it now beyond knowing Woods is predominant and Els his closest rival (I gather), and I think the urge to create courses in absurdly impractical locations is sad on any number of levels. But visiting Scotland made me appreciate why it was created there and so popular -- plenty of lush greenery, plenty of good space for courses. So why not?

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'll tell you why not! Cos golf courses ruin the natural lush greenery with their horrible landscaping and prevent people who aren't stomping around in silly jumpers from enjoying the countryside!

― Emma, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Emma is OTM here. Silly jumpers + vast amounts of environmental degradation = double dud.

― RickyT, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Are you referring to Scotland or England here? (I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly curious -- I was under the impression that most of the Scottish courses have been around for many a moon anyway, so they're the landscape by default now.)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm not sure that most of the courses in Scotland *are* that old, and there's been a big explosion in golf course construction in England over the last twenty years or so. The area round my parents house in Yorkshire is covered with the damn things, many of them having replaced the few bits of uncultivated land that remained in the area.

― RickyT, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf = men in pastel diamond knit tank tops = Classic

― davel, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think golf evolved in scotland as a way of using naturally occuring coastal scrub land.

They then started creating artificial coastal scrubland all over the world.

apparently American golf courses are more "artificial" than Irish & Scottish ones, and there is some pressure on courses over here to become less natural so as to appeal to yankee dollar.

but whatever, it's all golf = all boring middle class men off playing their boring game and cosying up to the boss over a few gin and tonics and then drink driving home.

― DV, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ronans answer is my answer as well. Classic. Having a golf course around sure beats having a soccer pitch, baseball diamond, basketball court etc etc around.

The fact that there is no player interaction only increases the enjoyment of the game for me. Sublime and no jock0's around to spoil your day.

― lawrence kansas, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As a matter of fact I shall be hitting the links (as we say) Saturday afternoon.

golfing with the boss=dud, which is why almost nobody does it.

― lawrence kansas, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I hate golf. Last Sunday whilst walking in the park talking to my mother and aunt whilst taking our dogs round a park that boarders on a golf course, a very rude old man starting telling us to be quiet as he wanted to tee off. Git. So, we just talked more loudly (we weren't shouting in the first place). So, anyway golf courses are evil. It is all fun shouting "skin" is you hear a golfer shout "fore".

― jel --, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tiger's petulant bitching at the photographers is by itself sufficient proof of ultimate dud-ness. Two words for all golfers, squatting to line up their putts as a reverential hush falls over the gallery: SWING BATTER!!

― briania, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf = hawaiian shirts. DO keep up! Classic obv.

― Jeff W, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

leave us golfers alone!!! you can have your extreme in your face lets eat a gallon of high fructose corn syrup while we make funny faces sports. we just want to be left alone!!!

― lawrence kansas, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf itself=neither classic or dud.

My husband streaking across golf courses at sunrise in the early 70's=classic.

― Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

He has defiled the game I love. I weep.

― lawrence kansas, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm with Mark Twain ("a good walk spoiled"). Dull, badly-dressed people playing a boring sport that has been dominated by upper class WASPs.

― Martin Skidmore, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'll be hitting the links on Sunday. Can't stand to watch the sport on T.V. but enjoy playing. Plus it makes a great drinking game when your playing with your friends.

― Chris, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I openly challenge Tiger Woods to a fight -- anywhere, anytime. Golf is the worst.

― Kris, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

how can a sport you essentially play by yourself be dominated by anybody (upper middle class WASPs or whoever)?

― lawrence kansas, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf = classic. Tiger = Super-Classic.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf-Huge amounts of land cleared out so that people can hit a ball around-D

Miniture Golf- A good time for druken teenagers on a Saturday Night. Watch where your standing at the ramp over water hole, I was hit with a flying ball and got a bruised collar bone. It was funny till the booze wore off...

― brg30, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'Peter Allis = Satan' = the strangest and silliest statement I've ever seen; I can hardly think of anyone harder to despise. The man is a god.

Classic Allis - Hay exchange from yesterday;

Allis (lamenting Seve's withdrawal due to being rubbish now): 'I'm afraid there aren't too many things you get better at as you get older'.

Hay: 'Sweeping?'.

― Ally C, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know their names but.

today they showed a bunch of CLIPS together [highlights, perhaps] with some krazy 'dance' music over the top.

one commentator: is that the sort of music you like to dance to?

another commentator: no, actually. I'm more of a gavotte-merchant.

I have an inkling that the another one was allis. if so: AllyC is OTM.

― RJG, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ben wright's comments about women's breasts getting in the way of their swing was pretty classic. i like how another name for the mullet is 'lpga'.

― keith, Saturday, 20 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bah Peter Allis is a 19th hole saloon bar reactionary sexist BORE who thinks that the 'little woman' shld never be allowed near a golf course and who in interviews makes dull and predictable comments abt the 'menace' of political correctness (which just means he can't tell his racist jokes anymore...)

― Andrew L, Sunday, 21 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Golf is classic because Jesper Parnevik plays it.

― Ally, Sunday, 21 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes the land is all "ruined". Of course!

― Ronan, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

walter benjamin to thread!!

― mark s, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

AllyC is, as he so often is, bang OTM.

and the end of the open yesterday was rather thrilling

― chris, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Commentary during a lull in yesterday's final round (which, contrary to most, I found infinitely less entertainng than when the leaders were shedding shots like confetti in Saturday's gale in front of no spectators whatsoever):

Allis: A mention to Mrs [x] who's just about recovered now from the shock of the burglary. I hope they catch the culprits soon.
Hay: Terrible. [Proceeds to say something about appropriate capital punishment to apply when they are caught]
Allis: Ooh no, surely a bit of flogging first. So the punishment lasts longer.
Hay: Oh yes, of course.

― Jeff W, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

eleven months pass...

Lehman Vaginal Overload, "Pin High (Parnevik's Panda Remix)"

― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Ronan909: the american dudes are like "hi sam, you've got a tan"
z3mk0: "yes well done beverley you were right"
thegardencentre: american commentators are like that for every sport though
thegardencentre: in fact ther news too
Ronan909: yeah zemko, and everytime someone wins and the wife comes on camera he goes
"now you can have that new kitchen love"
thegardencentre: "and a difficult genocide in central africa pete"
z3mk0: haha
*************: that's pretty OTM
Ronan909: he's said it at least three times
thegardencentre: "yes, a tricky situation for the malawians lesley"
*************: "that's right bob"
Ronan909: seve ballesteros was a great commentator
Ronan909: when he did it
Ronan909: is he on again this time
z3mk0: yesterday they werre discussing wind pattertsn and one said "he's talkign out his isobarse"
Ronan909: haha
cozenyo: haha
z3mk0: i was shocked!
thegardencentre: "1500 a day dead dave, the strike rate is rising"
Ronan909: it is so great, the best hangover tv ever
cozenyo: PARTAY tv
Ronan909: "war in iraq, wrap up warm folks"
thegardencentre: COMEDOWN TV
thegardencentre: HANGOVER TV
thegardencentre: PARTAAAAY TV
Ronan909: payne stewart
Ronan909: i miss him
thegardencentre: yea:-(
*************: "too bad about the fire that killed 15, ted"
z3mk0: bring the payne
Ronan909: haha
thegardencentre: too bad i fucked your wife pacey
Ronan909: FORE!
*************: :-)

― gareth (gareth), Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Ronan909: people should shout fore at raves
Ronan909: and wear golf clothes
*************: hahaha
cozenyo: you don;t?
*************: walk around with golf clubs
Ronan909: i do now
z3mk0: glow clubs
*************: and tee off
thegardencentre: peopel should weaer plus fours at raves
Ronan909: tee up on stage
Ronan909: plus 4s as in
Ronan909: turn up the pitch
thegardencentre: haha, i notice ed is being markedly silent!!!;-)
cozenyo: ian woosnam's so weird
Ronan909: you wave them at the dj
z3mk0: the big raver pants are already in effect!
z3mk0: kinda
*************: you use the clubs to adjust the lighting
Ronan909: people do wear golf visers
Ronan909: already
z3mk0: when i go raving i take a caddy
thegardencentre: there is a photo of me in a gold visor winging its way towards ilx
Ronan909: i have visions of homelands with 10000 people all in cheque trousers and sleeveless pringle sweaters
z3mk0: in a little buggy
thegardencentre: i need a new caddy
thegardencentre: my last one got uppity
z3mk0: and he hands me diff drugs and water and stuff
*************: david thomas from pere ubu/rftt uses his cane as a weapon... it's a little frightening
Ronan909: "i reckon you need to take the white mitsubishi this time zemko"
Ronan909: "the next hour could be tricky, have a pint"
thegardencentre: hah, this is a challenging rotterdam track, caddy hand me another half wrap of whizz, the bpm is realy high on this one
z3mk0: and waits patiently in the revving car while i dance in fornt of him
Ronan909: i fired my caddy after i passed out one time
Ronan909: he gave me a 7 iron when i needed some vodka
Ronan909: "a challenging rotterdam track"
*************: i'm going to open a club called "caddyshack"
thegardencentre: caddyshack is the best film ever!"
thegardencentre: apart from caddyshack 2

― gareth (gareth), Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Tiger Woods should drink farm cider.

― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm not sure if i want to know whether ILx chat transcripts are real or not. ah, mystery.

i hit golf balls this week. i have more natural ability at it than most other things that involve hitting balls. fun. and v. satisfying when you actually get it up in the air and far away. though i usually don't get quite as much distance as others. dunno if that's a strength thing or a technique thing (or the stella i had?). not too much exercise if you're just driving, though.

(we never heard of Africa in America, btw. TS: chatty, bubbleheaded non-news v. snide content.)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

doesn't Tolkien say that one of Bilbo Baggins's ancestors was the inventor of golf?

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

dud for land and water-use issues alone. have any of you been to Arizona? it's fucking horrifying.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Saturday, 19 July 2003 16:09 (twenty-three years ago)

as an AZ resident I can attest to that and then some

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 19 July 2003 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

ten months pass...

wentworth.

I've started playing again recently too and my handicaps gone down from a 14 to about an 11/10 - played ardeer and carded an 84 (an unecessary 7 [!!!], and three unecessary 6s) but shoulda been a 79. that is playing to handicap I guess (it was 14) but I reckon markers would have given me the 7 and 6s as 5s (taking into account the rest of my card.)

I love golf.

soft hands!

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

talk about golf.

do you like it? do you play? are you watching wentworth? will you play golf with me?

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd love to play some golf! But I need to work on my 1) putting 2) short game and 3) long game. And by "work on" I mean "gain even minimal competency."

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 3234 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

what a shot from rose at 14

give us a 6 man playoff at -10

― ||||||||, Sunday, 12 April 2026 21:39 (six months ago)

diabolical birdie from scheff at 15

he’s lurking

― ||||||||, Sunday, 12 April 2026 21:43 (six months ago)

rory seems to have fully stabilised tho. ominous for the field

― ||||||||, Sunday, 12 April 2026 21:44 (six months ago)

Exactly the word I just used talking to friends, xpost.

― LocalGarda, Sunday, 12 April 2026 21:44 (six months ago)

omg lol that scheff birdie

― I will edit thread titles like no one has ever seen before (WmC), Sunday, 12 April 2026 21:45 (six months ago)

ouch

If you were curious what happened to Haotong Li, here's where he played his fifth shot on 13.

Went triple, quintuple bogey on 12 and 13 to drop from seven under to one over. pic.twitter.com/sFB00A7zim
— Sean Zak (@Sean_Zak) April 12, 2026

― ||||||||, Sunday, 12 April 2026 21:56 (six months ago)

"gentlemen let's make this interesting shall we?" mcilroy

― Wichita Referee's Assistant (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 April 2026 22:36 (six months ago)

Faldo's out of his tree

― Number None, Sunday, 12 April 2026 22:47 (six months ago)

Yes!

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 April 2026 22:52 (six months ago)

Awesome

― frogbs, Sunday, 12 April 2026 22:55 (six months ago)

never doubted him

― Number None, Sunday, 12 April 2026 22:55 (six months ago)

he's such a mad bastard, pure emotion, danger leading to genius shot to shot. also what makes him likeable tho. delighted for him.

― LocalGarda, Sunday, 12 April 2026 23:03 (six months ago)

winning a bit much now. seems a bit ... idk british of him

― Wichita Referee's Assistant (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 April 2026 23:03 (six months ago)

happy for rory

― comrade jhøsh (k3vin k.), Sunday, 12 April 2026 23:19 (six months ago)

i have been watching the masters forever and can't recall any winner (or anyone) playing 18 like that lol

rory is a real one

― call all destroyer, Monday, 13 April 2026 02:53 (six months ago)

Super weird the cameras couldn’t find his or cams 2nd shots on 18. Horrible time to completely choke their coverage. Happy for Rory but man that Scottie chef put on 17 is playing back in my head over and over. Seems like it hit a lip at the very end and peeled off the hole. Brutal. A playoff between them would’ve been pretty special.

― You better go listen to lemonade and pray about it (Spottie), Monday, 13 April 2026 05:02 (six months ago)

Great leaderboard overall. All but Henley at least, who I personally just don’t like watching at all.

― You better go listen to lemonade and pray about it (Spottie), Monday, 13 April 2026 05:07 (six months ago)

I guess last year it took him a while to calm down from the emotions.

Wouldn't be surprising if Rory was to go through a solid run of major collections now. Nobody can really stop him when he gets going.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 April 2026 09:26 (six months ago)

surely too much of a seat-of-his-pants player to have a thoroughly consistent run?

― the Don King of donking (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 April 2026 10:58 (six months ago)

I feel like he could win a good few more even playing the mad way he plays.

― LocalGarda, Monday, 13 April 2026 10:59 (six months ago)

don't doubt he could but i feel like sporadically rather than ever becoming Tiger-level dominant

― the Don King of donking (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 April 2026 11:01 (six months ago)

i think that's true. he's too emotional to emulate peak tiger. luckily there was no fallout for tiger from living that way.

― LocalGarda, Monday, 13 April 2026 11:43 (six months ago)

Lol

Don't think he'll ever get to 15 majors but was thinking maybe another 3-4 in the next few years.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 April 2026 11:50 (six months ago)

ha i dont care about pro golf _at all_, dont know current players, only i saw a blazer award photo and went “damn. he’s a fuckin’ shrimp- how long does he hit it?”

― strictly hard music (Hunt3r), Monday, 13 April 2026 15:10 (six months ago)

surprisingly far!

― comrade jhøsh (k3vin k.), Monday, 13 April 2026 15:50 (six months ago)

LIV DED

― symsymsym, Wednesday, 15 April 2026 23:23 (six months ago)

seems big. hopefully pga bans phil 4 life

― You better go listen to lemonade and pray about it (Spottie), Wednesday, 15 April 2026 23:36 (six months ago)

Lol this is awesome. Wonder if the war on Iran have anything to do with it.

It appears from the report the Saudis just got bored?

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 16 April 2026 08:47 (six months ago)

Really think the place is cooked tbh.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 16 April 2026 08:48 (six months ago)

four weeks pass...

lolchambeau

― You better go listen to lemonade and pray about it (Spottie), Friday, 15 May 2026 19:43 (five months ago)

i like this leaderboard

― You better go listen to lemonade and pray about it (Spottie), Friday, 15 May 2026 19:43 (five months ago)

one month passes...

this phil article
https://www.skratch.golf/news/pro-golf/phil-mickelson-misconduct-women-madison-club-bridges-farms-exits?utm_source=social&utm_medium=x

― Spottie, Friday, 26 June 2026 22:30 (three months ago)

jesus

― k3vin k., Saturday, 27 June 2026 00:56 (three months ago)

two weeks pass...

bryson drama

― urmbchjo, Friday, 17 July 2026 20:06 (three months ago)

love some bryson drama

― Spottie, Friday, 17 July 2026 20:07 (three months ago)

2 stroke penalty! the video they keep showing its really hard to see anything, i guess the officials have a different camera view? or eye witnesses?

― Spottie, Friday, 17 July 2026 20:48 (three months ago)

If Infantino was in charge that penalty would be revoked already

― symsymsym, Friday, 17 July 2026 21:26 (three months ago)

oh i guess he improved the backswing and not moved the ball, that makes sense

― Spottie, Friday, 17 July 2026 21:37 (three months ago)

hes saying he might not play tomorrow now, lol what a baby.

― Spottie, Friday, 17 July 2026 21:38 (three months ago)

"DeChambeau is understood to have insisted upon a return to the scene – including with club in hand – to prove his innocence. The two-time major winner cut an increasingly furious figure as it was made plain to him the penalty would stand. DeChambeau then appeared to tell the officials he would not play in the third round, if that was the case."

What a fucking pussy!

― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 18 July 2026 11:00 (three months ago)

Pack your bags and fuck off right, hate this charade.

― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 18 July 2026 11:01 (three months ago)

great performance from ryan fox - so gutsy and aggressive at the right times. nice when it’s a popular winner

― urmbchjo, Sunday, 19 July 2026 18:32 (three months ago)

I'd never heard of the guy tbh.

― stanes on the knees and blood on the jumber (Tom D.), Sunday, 19 July 2026 18:33 (three months ago)

Was this guy the first major winner from New Zealand?

Looked like quite an exciting finish

― xyzzzz__, Monday, 20 July 2026 10:43 (three months ago)

love his approach to the game and speed of play, weird ass swing too.

― Spottie, Monday, 20 July 2026 16:58 (three months ago)

He was the first NZer to win the Open since the 60s.

Wtf!

Bryson DeChambeau has been accused of threatening to call Donald Trump during a row with senior R&A officials on Friday after the American golfer was handed a two-shot penalty at the Open.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, 20 July 2026 17:35 (three months ago)

Bob Charles, who AI is telling me is the oldest living Open champion ... except Gary Player is older.

― stanes on the knees and blood on the jumber (Tom D.), Monday, 20 July 2026 17:45 (three months ago)

wish i had gotten to see this. usually guys who have a crazy hot saturday end up fading back to the pack (or worse) on sunday. impressive mentality to not let that happen.

― call all destroyer, Monday, 20 July 2026 17:56 (three months ago)

love how he treated the put on 18 like it was nothing more than a practice putt ho hum let it rip

― Spottie, Monday, 20 July 2026 18:07 (three months ago)

Saturday was brilliant viewing. guys could not believe where their shots were ending up.

― Wichita Referee's Assistant (darraghmac), Monday, 20 July 2026 23:52 (three months ago)

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