Tiger: Why?

A lot of people are loving every minute of Tiger's meltdown, which just hit a new low on Sunday. I understand this up to a point, but that's not what the poll is about--if you want to gloat or high-five, go here. I'm interested in the why of it, which might say something about whether or to what degree he can find his way back.

"Mental" probably doesn't need much explanation: shame, humiliation, preoccupation with divorce settlement, preoccupation with sponsors, etc. In a larger sense, he'd constructed such a carefully sealed-off world, maybe all it took was any kind of a significant puncture and it was inevitable that the whole thing would unravel. By "physical," I mean three things:

1) The vagaries of the golf swing. It's not that unusual for golfers to seemingly lose it overnight; Duvall was the most prominent example, but I know there are others. The golf swing is a mysterious thing, with a mind all its own--even for professionals, and even for Woods, who has taken his apart and put it back together again a number of times the past 15 years. If you're a hacker like me, you're mystified as to why you hit a bad shot, and, every now and again, you're no less mystified as to why you hit a good one.

2) The ongoing problems connected to his knee.

3) The normal aging process. 35 seems to be a meaningful benchmark for a professional golfer; I saw some summary of what Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman, etc. achieved after 35, and it was pretty much steady decline.

I don't how many people will vote--probably everyone's long since sick of the story--but I'm guessing 50/50 will carry it. I'm voting 75% mental/25% physical. Absent the scandal, I think the other stuff was already starting to, and would have continued to, slow him down some but not much.

100% not getting anymore waitress trim

Count that as "physical"...I'm 100% mentally sure I won't be getting many non-joke posts here.

It's the swing. His last coach (Haney???) took apart the swing he dominated with in the late 90s, early 00s, and probably ruined him. Now that Tiger's fired him, he has nobody to go to to tweak it.

He's also named in the investigation of some Canadian doctor involved with doping. If he was doping and now had to stop, this could also be causing him problems.

I'd forgotten about the steroid accusations, the timing of which further clouds the issue. If you believe the story's true, I guess that could be added to the physical side.

non-joek answer is 50/50 -- havent watched him really recently but, you know, right back he played well at augusta and pretty good at the open and if he was deeply shook by the "off the course pressures" idk if he couldve done that

tiger woods is 35 now?

seriously surprised by this.

could've sworn you had to be at least 90 to play golf professionally

I have to believe it's 100% mental or 90/10 mental/physical, unless there's something similar to playing on a broken knee going on.

i voted 75% mental, but this is worth keeping in mind, posnanski:

Woods has been dominant for a dozen years — which is a long time to dominate in golf. The greatest golfers have had a fairly short window of time when they dominate, and when that window closes they stop winning major championships.

– Ben Hogan won all his majors from 1946-1953 and though he contended for years (finishing second four times in the next three years), he never won another one.
– Arnold Palmer won all his majors from from 1958-1964.
– Tom Watson (more on him in a minute) won all his majors from 1975-83.
– Sam Snead won all his majors from 1946-1954.
– Nick Faldo won all his majors from 1987-1996.
– Bobby Jones won all his majors from 1923-1930.

And so on. There are two notable exceptions — they are the two best old golfers of the last 50 years. Gary Player spread out his major championship victories over two decades — 1959-78. His endurance is a marvel, what makes him one of the greatest who ever lived. The other, of course, is Nicklaus who won his first major in 1962 and his last at Augusta in 1986 when he was 46 years old.

Golf is the most mentally demanding sport/game i've ever played. This is 100% mental in my opinion.

I tracked down the Posnanski column and will read it. (I think Nicklaus's window is more accurately described as '62-'80, when he won 17 out of his 18 majors, with a maximum three-year gap; there was the one surprise Masters in '86 after that.) I'd count this as going hand-in-hand with the aging-process argument, i.e. Tiger was inevitably going to slow down noticably no matter what was happening off the course. By the way--he's not quite 35 yet, but will be Dec. 30.

In retrospect the decline was on the cards as soon as he lost that lead to Y E Yang at last year's USPGA. But what was the timeline? Maybe he knew the infidelities were going to come out...

60% mental, 30% physical, 10% goatee

Most sportsman do decline but until the car crashing of life I did think he had a 60% chance of beating Nicklaus' record, or if not to getting within one or two. As of now it doesn't like he'll do a thing in any of them anymore.

otoh he still managed top tens at the US Masters and open...

Golf is the most mentally demanding sport/game i've ever played. This is 100% mental in my opinion.

― brotherlovesdub, Monday, August 9, 2010 2:37 PM (14 minutes ago)

+1

In retrospect the decline was on the cards as soon as he lost that lead to Y E Yang at last year's USPGA.

Yeah, that did feel like something different at the time. I think I'd already chalked up that one as a win before the day started.

60% mental, 30% physical, 10% goatee

― Donna and the pitfall of being pulchritudinous (donna rouge), Monday, August 9, 2010 3:52 PM (3 minutes ago)

YES YES 1000 TIMES YES

(it's 50/50)

i voted 25 mental/75 physical

Missive from the mountaintop...There's a section on Bill James's site where you can ask him questions; it's the section I check most frequently. I asked a question a few months ago about a late-'90s MVP vote, but didn't get a response. I reworded my Tiger question this morning, and, surprise, he responded:

Bill: You've written a lot on age and peak performance in baseball. Any thoughts on the degree to which Tiger Woods' worsening play is a function of his off-course problems? Is the one wholly causing the other, or is it more a case that the personal stuff is masking (and exacerbating) a decline that was inevitable anyway?

Asked by: Phil Dellio
Answered: August 10, 2010

I don't know nothin' about golf, but my assumption has been that this was 99% caused by his personal problems, leading to massive distractions and an inability to stay on the course. Golfers age slowly, don't they? I think their aging curve has a lower slope, so that a golfer of Tigers' age would not normally be experiencing a decline of anything like this magnitude.

Look at Craig Stadler (and his son), look at John Daly, look at Tim Herron. Anybody who is reasonably fit and reasonably ambulatory can learn a repeatable swing that suits their body. Golf is 99.5% focus and concentration. Tiger's problem is 100% mental, i.e. inability to focus and concentrate because everything else in his life is swirling down the toilet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxS_K7WIBQw

Yeah, but when he was dominating, wasnt his life in some serious turmoil? I mean if he was banging all these chicks all the time, and trying to keep it on the down low, it had to have weighed on his mind. He may actually be relieved all that bullshit is over. I think its physical.

"Look at Craig Stadler (and his son), look at John Daly, look at Tim Herron."

Ok, look at them. Imagine how much more success Daly would have had had he not been in the process of destroying himself?

Tiger's problem is 100% mental, i.e. inability to focus and concentrate because everything else in his life is swirling down the toilet.

That was my first reading of what's going on too, but I'm starting to question it. I read the Posnanski column cited above, and the stuff on clean-living choirboy Tom Watson was especially persuasive.

Magill, I think you're missing my point entirely, which is that you don't have to be a prime physical specimen to be good at golf. You can even be a fat tub of goo and be good at golf. Golf is much more a mental sport than a physical one, so it's pretty easy to ID Tiger's problems as concentration-related. IMHO

It could be physical in the sense of having a hitch in his swing, having trouble with aiming, etc. ... problems that are "mental" in a sense, but strictly related to the physical process of golfing, not due to psychological problems or stress or etc.

...you don't have to be a prime physical specimen to be good at golf. You can even be a fat tub of goo and be good at golf.

Conversely, you don't have to be a fat tub of goo to be bad at golf--it's a game that drives even otherwise full-fledged athletes around the bend. (Borne out by some of the pro-ams I've watched.) This is one of the reasons I'm starting to think that there's more going on than just his off-course problems; how immune the intricacies of the golf swing are to anything else.

clearly the thing that made Tiger a beast was his concentration, which is now completely gone

100% mental

100% pissed off an Elder God

he probably needs to get a fucking swing coach--it's appalling that he tried to play this year basically without one.

also, there is no way he fully addressed what he needed to address in his life before coming back to golf and it's hard to see anyone playing well having lost a family and hundreds of millions of dollars.

That's another good question: how much did coming back so soon (too soon, it now seems clear, even though he fooled some of us with his U.S. Open showing) have to do with his ego, and how much had to do with gentle pressure from the PGA?

Elin = Matthew Broderick
Tiger = used to be the computer that wanted to play Global Thermonuclear War, now he's a dollar-store calculator with no batteries

clearly the thing that made Tiger a beast was his concentration, which is now completely gone

100% mental

― people are for loving (HI DERE), Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:04 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark

I dunno, see my 2:24 post. I think he had a lot of shit weighing on his mind when he was nailing everything in sight and had to keep it from his wife/sponsors. I really think there is a physical/swing/PED issue here.

too soon, it now seems clear, even though he fooled some of us with his U.S. Open showing

^you may mean Masters showing here.

when he was nailing everything in sight

That's like the most brilliant ambiguity I've ever seen...in the context of your sentence, you mean golf-wise, right? (Was it the Masters? Oops.)

in the context of your sentence, you mean golf-wise, right?

^no

I think he had a lot of shit weighing on his mind when he was nailing everything in sight and had to keep it from his wife/sponsors.

completely disagree--by all accounts dude was coasting through an extremely controlled lifestyle.

and one little fuck up and it all falls apart. which is ultimately what happened.

:))) Believe it or not, you can read it both ways.

xp right, but like, i don't think he was thinking about that until it actually happened.

wish i could find the article about how insulated he was while traveling--everything scheduled and controlled, doesn't allow a lot of time to reflect on shit.

To destroyer: obviously his wife wasnt in on it, or she wouldnt have tried to decapitate him with a 9 iron when she found out. so there was always the risk she would uncover it. I dont care how good a guys crew is, it's tough to keep that kind of serial horndoggery away from someone's spouse.

It may not allow a lot of time to reflect on shit, but it does leave sufficient time to nail ho's in the Perkins parking lot.

I think he had plenty of time.

are we talking about the same thing? you said he was under mental pressure before everything came out (and therefore you are minimizing the mental pressure he's been under since everything came out). i'm disagreeing.

i mean if nothing else he's out 700 million this year--kind of more stressful than getting laid during some golf tournament thousands of miles from orlando.

Thinking about human nature, I think you can make the case that there's as much or more stress involved with keeping something hidden than with the fallout when it comes out.

sure--i don't think that is the case in this situation.

can anyone seriously claim that getting regular road pussy was as stressful as having your reputation destroyed in an incredibly public way, getting divorced, having to fight for access to your kids, losing a large fortune, and oh yeah still having to go play golf every week?

would need major evidence to believe that.

does anybody have any statistics on his drive distances? that's about the only thing that could be affected by a physical decrease in strength. everything else is just finesse.

Obviously the stressful part was knowing that if it ever went public, he'd be in for a nightmare. (Even he might not have realized just how much of a nightmare.) But we've probably hit an impasse.

I used to caddy at a golf course for 2 years. there was nothing, at least from appearance, physically, that separated the guys who regularly shot around par and the guys who shot 87's.

I mean, clearly, there are guys out there who are way more built than Tiger is and who can smack it 400, 450 yards on a good day. but that doesn't translate to birdies on the scorecard.

I never meant physical in the sense of driving distance. If I'm remembering correctly, he purposefully sacrificed some distance early in his career and tried to play smarter...I'm not sure if driving distance would tell you much.

Obviously the stressful part was knowing that if it ever went public, he'd be in for a nightmare.

imo people doing bad things for a long time are usually really good at not thinking about the consequences but yeah i'll shut up.

Thinking about human nature, I think you can make the case that there's as much or more stress involved with keeping something hidden than with the fallout when it comes out.

― clemenza, Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:44 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^this is what Im trying to say. There's mental stress involved in both situations, before and after you get caught, and he was killing it before-at least until he hurt his knee and his doctor got busted. Therefore I think it's more physical.

wouldn't "strength" in golf be about maintaining your form so your swing is consistent? like i think "physical" means either a) his swing is fucked up or b) an injury (knee) is preventing him from maintaining his form.

I never meant physical in the sense of driving distance. If I'm remembering correctly, he purposefully sacrificed some distance early in his career and tried to play smarter...I'm not sure if driving distance would tell you much.

― clemenza, Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

so you mean in terms of form/technique? yeah I buy that but ultimately all that leads to what's going on in here *taps head*

and not having a swing coach

Agreeing here with clemenza, which is shocking because we once almost had a homicidal beef about Alice Cooper.

unless, like I said above, he's got another bum knee. or some kind of carpal tunnel thing from all that repetition in practicing.

people doing bad things for a long time are usually really good at not thinking about the consequences

There may be some kind of a Nixon parallel here...Bill, if I remember correctly, we made the peace with your canoli line.

the game is all going on in dyao's head

his dream or tiger's?

or his swing is royally fucked up, which is what people a lot more knowledgble about golf than me (peter kostis, johnny miller) think.

xxpost

yes, that is correct. there is no way to settle a debate than reference to cheese filled pastry!!

Nixon, Hamlet, Macbeth... there is a long line of tragic figures tripping themselves up worrying about getting in trouble beforehand.

imo people doing bad things for a long time are usually really good at not thinking about the consequences

Agreed

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I played today and shot a 113. I'd say that 95% of the problem was that I'm very worried about Tiger these days. The other 5%: golf is a very difficult game for me.

ha. read that tiger was working w/ hunter mahan's swing coach fyi

It could be physical in the sense of having a hitch in his swing, having trouble with aiming, etc. ... problems that are "mental" in a sense, but strictly related to the physical process of golfing, not due to psychological problems or stress or etc.

― no gut busting joke can change history (polyphonic), Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:54 PM (Yesterday)

^yup this is otm

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Unanimity: his personal problems are, to one degree or another, affecting his game. Someone needs to take him aside and explain this to him.

he murdered that shot off the cart path

I hope I'm wrong (his mother and I are the last two people left who still want him to pass Nicklaus for majors), but I don't see him winning this tournament. The early hoopla over yesterday's round seems a little premature; it's still an adventure out there for him. The press tripping over itself to declare "Tiger's back!" may become as much a fact of life as the "Dylan's back!" chorus of the late '70s.

o yeah theres no way hes winning this tournament

it is 1000% hilarious how yang is on the green already @ tiger is still taking his 3rd shot

the announcers LOVE IT too

I'm grappling with the fact that there's a player named D.A. Points. That just doesn't seem right.

there are some loud, routy (drunk) ppl in wisconsin

okay wtf....did anyone just see that butch harmon favourite shot montage? he said his was "the korean kj choi, first asian to win a major" etc etc and it had ye yang on screen and said "butch's favourite shot, ye yang".

AWKWARD.

i h8 dustin johnson but golf is terrible if he gets dq'd here

christ imagine if he had made the putt

bizarre finish

this is bullshit

nobody has more respect for the traditions of golf than me but this is outrageous, golf is the loser tonight.

christ imagine if he had made the putt

― johnny crunch, Monday, 16 August 2010 00:23 (7 minutes ago)

so fucked up. the course superintendent needs to do a public self-immolation on this dude's behalf

like.....isn't the whole grounding rule so you don't disturb the prearranged/raked setting of a typical bunker. seems totally irrelevant if it's been trampled down already.

yeah but obviously you can't decide the rule doesn't apply in this case

sucks for him but what are you gonna do

yeah if it's the rule they've made of course, but it is foolish to call these things bunkers if spectators are standing in them.

that's to say i'm not criticising them enforcing the rule now, but it's a stupid rule.

bubba makes some hilarious shots some times, god

not sure why he chose to chip out of the rough but he almost made that bunker shot whew

pleased kaymer won...good to see a german golfer doing well.

I dont know, first golf, then maybe Poland.

Which once again proves my theory: Germans love David Hasselhoff.

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_golf_experts__14/ept_sports_golf_experts-57450084-1286203344.jpg?ymQv33DDOMia8GRC

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Tiger-Woods-gives-us-the-greatest-golf-photo-you?urn=golf-274331

I don't think he'll catch Nicklaus.

No chance now you would think, unless he gets a bionic knee.

Heard about this this morning. Forty-two--god, that's awful.