kids: do you want them? do you feel guilty for not wanting them?

my kid is great. dunno about other people's kids.

"I wanted to have kids when I was younger but I didn't want to be a single parent and now I am too old and it's too late" is not an option on that list. ;_;

haha i just realised the thread title implies the want/not-want of existing children

i like the ~idea~ of having kids, but i honestly don't think i can deal with the reality of it

I would have liked the option.

had a kid last year, my wife and i kinda knew we were gonna try in a couple years but then it just happend (does that make him planned or unplanned?). i never had a strong urge towards parenthood or really wanted it, or felt guilty about being that way, but i knew whenever it happened i'd probably enjoy it, which i do.

My kid was unplanned but is the most amazing person I've ever known.

yeah see i think i might have changed my mind by the time i'm in my late 30s and in a better position in life, but by then it'll be too late for me to have my own.

i am really into the idea of doing foster care, though.

I simply never wanted kids.

just had a planned baby. I was always wary of the idea but like many ideas I'm not sure about my wife eventually convinced me (like over a period of a few years) and I'm glad she did.

Late 30s is not too late to have children.

that will probably be me.

I do rly want kids of my own, have for years and tried to face the idea that I might never have a partner and I didn't want to be a single mom but hadn't reconciled all that with the approaching 40s quite yet, and was sort of grieving that I had lost a decade already of youth & health & time to Do Things.

Now I have a partner (until we kill each other) and I'm kind of like "Wait, wait, you didn't say it had to be NOW. What do you mean, it's "now" already??"

i am in a committed relationship and this is a point of contention

I don't particularly expect to have kids, or feel a need to have kids, but I don't think I'd be averse to it if that turned out to be what I was doing. I do think that if I was settled it'd be good to do fostering, though.

committed relationship and we feel like we're way too young to even be thinking about it. not until 30s for sure.

My wife and I are both turning 41 in the next six months, have been married 19 years, never wanted kids, don't have any, and don't feel the slightest bit guilty about it. Anyone who tries to make someone feel guilty about it is an asshole of the first order. And anyone who says, "Oh, you'll change your mind!" should be beaten to death with a hammer.

Anyone who tries to make someone feel guilty about it

Are there really people that consciously do this (prospective grandparents aside)?

don't want kids, feel mildly resentful that people apparently feel able to bring this question up or say things like "oh, you'll change your mind!" to gay people now

Anyone who tries to make someone feel guilty about it

Are there really people that consciously do this (prospective grandparents aside)?

yeah I've never seen this happen except with prospective grandparents - people telling you you might actually enjoy raising kids does not necessarily mean they're trying to make you feel guilty, although that might be how it makes you feel.

I guess watching Idiocracy might make you feel guilty

Anyone who tries to make someone feel guilty about it
dunno if "guilty" is the right word but i think once people have kids, they might start thinking that child-less couples are missing out or are strange, just because once you have a kid you almost instantly can't imagine *not* having a kid. if that makes sense.

i have definitely witnessed women guilting other women for not wanting babies, i'm sorry to say.

yeah that sucks. if you do not want kids, do not have kids! i guess i have known couples who have had a difficult time conceiving, and the idea of someone who *could* have kids but just doesn't wat to seems unfair.

I hate the guilting from other women, but I hate it for a different reason. It's complicated, and it makes me angry and actually quite upset when I think about it, so I should probably stay off this thread. But I feel like the decision not to have kids was not something I actually chose, but something the viscitudes of life handed to me. And it's taken a long time to make peace (and a little bit of mourning the kids I was not able to have) to get to the point of being OK with it. So when I ever see other people espousing the joy of parenthood in a "you'll change your mind" kinda way it just brings up rrrrrrrage because the only way I can make sense of the position I ended up in is in a kind of child-phobic sort of way.

tl;dr - bitter childless woman is bitter and hates children

lol

well, the end bit was lol

the actual pain you feel is not so lol

Committed relationship, never want kids.

And anyone who says, "Oh, you'll change your mind!" should be beaten to death with a hammer.

Absolutely this. I have never ever wanted kids. Probably said this before, but it gets me so mad because the people who say I'll change my mind have ever-changing goalposts. When I was a teenager, they said to wait until my twenties and I'll change my mind. When I hit my twenties they said 'oh, wait until late twenties and you'll change your mind'. Now I'm in my late twenties they're telling me to wait until my thirties. This won't end until I hit the menopause, I reckon.

do not want. Nephews are quite enough for me.

My feeling if you don't think you want to have kids is DON'T DO IT. Raising kids is hard, serious business. It is rewarding in many very profound ways, but DAMN it is tough. Plus, you might have twins!

OTOH, Idiocracy (as Shakey mentioned).

We got together when we were in our early 30s. Money, family support, and emotional resources were all a bit thin on the ground, so we didn't think seriously about having kids for a while. About five years in, we decided we were ready and started trying. The next few years were a tough period of fertility treatments and miscarriages from which we emerged stronger as a couple, but without kids. We are very comfortable living child-free now, but this isn't what either of us expected at the beginning of our relationship.

The biological clock runs at different speeds for different people. Late 30s/early 40s turned out to be too late for us. If we'd given this more thought early on, we might not have done anything differently, but we would have understood how important the timing of our decision was.

xpost, Karen OTM

a good friend of mine just split w/her longtime partner because of the kid question. he didn't want them, she did, in the end they both realized that you can't force the other person to change their mind b/c in the end one of them will resent it. if you are in a relationship and this issue is a problem, unfortunately you should probably consider ending it. i was ambivalent for awhile (basically "oh i could go either way") but on my honeymoon we hung out with some friends of my wife's who have two awesome, sharp kids (3 and 5) and it changed my mind totally in favor of wanting children.

And anyone who says, "Oh, you'll change your mind!" should be beaten to death with a hammer.

Or "you'll change your mind when you meet the right guy!" Uck. Yes, there are definitely people who'll try to make you feel guilty, or like a freak about it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-10786279"">This recent BBC article overstates the case a bit, but there is a stigma, especially towards women without a desire to procreate.

I like kids, but have never wanted any of my own. I'm in my late 20s now, so I hope that if I was ever going to feel my biological clock start ticking, I'd have felt it by now. There's a tiny fear in the back of my brain that I'll reach my late 30s and suddenly become baby-obsessed. Sometimes I wonder that I've chosen to be childfree as a defense mechanism, just because that sort of family-oriented normalcy seems so far removed from the way I live my life. These fears don't keep me up at night, though.

18 years in a gay couple; can barely keep cats alive, fed, vetted = no kids, no kid plans but . . . I think we do have a vague middle-aged sense of "now what?" where most parenting couples we know don't have the freetime/freeheadspace to worry about that because childrearing relentlessly asks more of them than they can give. Neither schadenfreude nor envy, but a real feeling that my life is *very* different from my peers who are parents.

a good friend of mine just split w/her longtime partner because of the kid question. he didn't want them, she did
this is why it's so important to talk about this before you get married/committed, and not to have the expectation that you're gonna bee able to change anyone's mind either way.

My feeling if you don't think you want to have kids is DON'T DO IT. Raising kids is hard, serious business.

yeah ^^^ this. there are already more than enough shitty parents in the world.

I want them but I'm not ready for them right now. although given that I'm almost 30 I should probably decide for sure when I might be.

life is hard enough for me w/out little helpless people putting their lives in my hands.

I agree that it's rude and dumb to tell somebody they'll change their mind about having a baby, and there are some people who never want kids and that's fine. But the whole frame of discussion about deciding to have kids or not is kind of weird to me because people can change their minds, because people change. like I understand saying it's important to talk about whether people want to have kids before getting into a committed relationship but my wife and I got together when I was 19 and have been together ever since but if you asked me if I wanted kids when I was 19 I probably would have been like "uh I dunno probably not" and if you asked me when I was 28 (when we got married) I would have probably waffled and been like "oh maybe someday but I'm not sure I dunno." I guess it's different for dudes because we can have kids basically whenever and don't bear as much of the literal physical burden of pregnancy and pain. And also I'm just generally a wishy-washy person who doesn't like to decide things until I have to so this whole thing of deciding you don't want kids when you're like 22 or 25 or even 30 is a strange concept to me.

and again, not criticizing people who have made this decision, just saying it's alien to me

basically if you're a man or woman who doesn't want kids, find someone who feels the same way, don't find someone who feels the opposite and try to change their mind the other way, because that's the sort of thing that will be like a time bomb waiting to ruin your relationship later anyway. i don't think the kid conversation is something you need to have when you're 19 or something, of course.

I have an adopted son and a biological daughter on the way. We aren't really ready for another child - we just bought a house and have all kinds of other things going on - but we decided to start trying to get pregnant because my wife is a little older and we were worried about fertility problems/running out of time/complications. I'm super super super excited about the baby though.

physical burden of pregnancy and pain

I will just say that Mrs. KKVGZ is going through a hell of a lot of this right now and I just want her to be comfortable again.

yeah i agree with congratulations. my wife and i started dating when we were 20-21, and the topic of children probably didn't come up in a serious way for at least six years. i always thought that it was something i'd want to do eventually, but it wasn't anything i felt was necessary to do RIGHT NOW. my wife was a little wary. mainly because of the physically taxing aspects of pregnancy. but she's the one who really ended up pushing for having a kid when we did, because she did feel like as she gets older, the harder it might be.

Approaching 30, been married a few years, and struggling with this one a bit. I feel like I'll definitely regret not having them when I'm older, so trying to prepare myself mentally for it to happen in the next few years. But realistically can't see it happening!
My big problem with it is that I like to weigh up pros and cons when making big life decisions. The cons here are obvious but the pro is this unknown "magical" thing that I have no past experience on. I think I'll love it, when it happens, but it's making the decision to *actually* do it that's so hard.

Omar OTM re: the time bomb

BTW I don't at all have any problem, and wouldn't feel any guilt, about the choice to not have kids. It's a very appealing prospect too, tbh - I enjoy my life as it is and who knows what they'll do to it :)

they'll change it

I would think the pros to having kids - boundless source of joy, another person in the family to share things with, someone to look after you when you're old and carry on your loony behaviors/patterns, excuse to play with all your old toys - would be kinda obvious

ilxor.com needs more mexicans and mormons or else we will have serious demographic problems in the long-term

that's racist!

maybe start a mexican/mormon friendly subboard

there was one, and then it became a different one - and pretty much it's just plaxico posting about art

sunny - lol, I like to think it's not just that but you make a compelling case

those of you who are parents and don't live near family or close friends: how do you deal with that?

You spend money on childcare and you don't go to the movies much.

i am in a committed relatinoship and plan to have unplanned kids is a missing option imo

that is certainly much closer to my situation than any of the original poll options, yes

(previous unserious comment reminds me of another real, if vague and silly, concern I have abt having kids: have been in relationship for several years now, neither of us wants to get married, but my parents and grandparents are slightly old-fashioned and would be pretty much horrified if we spawned w/o getting married - so I guess at least 1.5 years' advance planning required after all, without even knowing by then if I even can have kids - man do I hate stuff that requires advance planning)

We lost one. It was very early (7 weeks), but I am terribly sad about it. I know it's strange to be posting here about it, but I feel the need to say something about it to someone. I haven't really been able to talk to anyone about it at this point. I actually got sort of attached to it - we referred to it as "Celly" and I had some really cool name ideas. For a few weeks I felt this transformed, heightened sense of everything, and then there was this scare where we thought something was very wrong, but it turns out everything is probably ok now otherwise.

really sorry to hear that, dude.

I'm terribly sorry to hear that. It is rough, my wife and I went through the same thing although it was a week earlier than yours. The good news is that everything was fine and we are now expecting our first baby in September. We had the 12-week check-up today and things are going along well, so we're feeling very good about this one. Sincerely not trying to rub this in, just telling you that it doesn't mean things won't get to where you want them to be. I was a nervous wreck from when we found until, well truthfully, this morning though.

ah fuck i'm so sorry hurting

I am so sorry, Hurting. Take care of each other.

Thanks.

Yeah, I know it doesn't mean anything in terms of future pregnancy (if anything it just means it's possible). Just surprised that it's hard to take. I had always taken that Peter Singer-ish "it's just some cells until it's sentient" approach.

I went to work after the doctor and didn't tell anyone about it and it felt very strange. Work relationships are strange.

The only person I ever talked to about it directly was my brother.

xxp yeah but it's different when the reality is your ~own~ little group of non-sentient cells, so it's ok and good to grieve. my condolences to you, hurting2.

i meant to post to this thread at xmas time after a discussion with my mother in law about having kids: she basically said not to have them if we already have a fulfilling life, bc kids aren't that great and bring you a great deal of trouble and can be a huge burden... lol!!!! i mean, that's kind of awful to hear, but also funny bc she has 3 sons who are all extremely intelligent, gifted, funny, interesting, kind (and handsome!) people.

Thanks for posting, Hurting. I don't know what to say or to add but I'm glad that you posted...if it can ease the hurt just a little bit, it was worth sharing.
Hugs for you.

sorry to hear that, hurting. i know how devastating the loss can be.

<3 to you both, let the feelings of loss happen and run that emotional course regardless of what your logical mind says

so sorry to hear that hurting. this happened to us also, about a year before our son was born. it was very rough for awhile but time (and love) will heal. don't give up.

I'm sorry, hurting.

o shit. v. sorry man

so sorry to hear that H2.

Sorry hurting, wife and I went through years if fertility treatments and lost a baby early in when she finally did get pregnant, I understand. It sucks. Keep your head up it will all work out as it did for us.

My cousin and her husband lost at two attempts in as many years, only to have a case of third time lucky - their son was born on Christmas Day. Hang in there, famille H2!

My mother had five miscarriages before having me. I guess it was just a matter of the perfect one sticking. ;)

Hurting, I'm very sorry to hear this and I'm glad you have somewhere to let it out because not being able to talk to anyone about it must be awful.

i meant to post to this thread at xmas time after a discussion with my mother in law about having kids: she basically said not to have them if we already have a fulfilling life, bc kids aren't that great and bring you a great deal of trouble and can be a huge burden... lol!!!! i mean, that's kind of awful to hear, but also funny bc she has 3 sons who are all extremely intelligent, gifted, funny, interesting, kind (and handsome!) people.

That's pretty funny but also so scary!! I think about that sort of thing all the time. If you had asked me a couple years ago if I wanted to have kids I wouldn't have hesitated at all but now I'm not so sure. The idea of adopting one or two like 10 years from now is more and more appealing. I keep watching people with kids and as cute and awesome as I'm sure they are, it also seems like so much fucking work.

btw congrats Jon - I don't remember seeing that news posted before. :)

I guess I worry that I'm too selfish with my time to have kids. That might change but I don't see it doing so any time soon. Plus there are so many things I still want to do that kids would make near impossible if you factor in $$ and practical aspects. I think I'd actually be a pretty good mom but it's such a HUGE thing. idk. I was never one of those people who always dreamed of having kids anyway so maybe it's just not for me.

sorry to hear about that Hurting. i know 2 couples who went through the same thing in the last couple years, and both of them kept trying and had pregnancies that went totally smoothly soon after.

kids are a lot of work, but its the rewards you get from putting in that work that make it easier!

really sorry hurting

I'm so sorry, Hurting. It's a really difficult experience to go through.

btw congrats Jon - I don't remember seeing that news posted before. :)

Thanks, I just posted it in the Chicago thread about the same time this one got bumped, so still relatively fresh news!

he basically said not to have them if we already have a fulfilling life, bc kids aren't that great and bring you a great deal of trouble and can be a huge burden... lol!!!!
My new coworker tells me exactly this, every day.

oh congrats jon, didnt see that either. Start it on popcorn in the womb.

erica, i'm totally with you - i mean, i really like kids and i'm pretty good with them but every time i start feeling clucky i think about the ~reality~ of having kids and honestly, i find it such a downer! i just wish there wasn't a stupid ticking biological clock, bc i think i would probably be way more into having my own kids in 10 yrs or so. but by then it'll be too late. but in 10 or 15 yrs, if j is making enough money that i don't have to work, i would really be into doing foster care.

I deal with Foster Care here...these poor kids.

Hugs to you, H2.

i've always wanted kids, but it gets to be a weaker urge every passing year.

he basically said not to have them if we already have a fulfilling life, bc kids aren't that great and bring you a great deal of trouble and can be a huge burden... lol!!!!

That's such a strange thing to say. It makes parenthood sound like some desperate, grasping thing.

ENBB FWIW I've done more to further my own selfish dreams since I've become a dad than in all the years before. There is definitely something "focusing" about it.

Hang in there, Hurting.

ENBB FWIW I've done more to further my own selfish dreams since I've become a dad than in all the years before.

Yup. Something about "taking the kids to NY/Venice/etc" and so on...

Sorry to hear it, Hurting. It's hard but it's not uncommon. Look after each other and take it easy for a while.

it's also a weird outlook in terms of the 'unfulfilled? Try kids!' mentality it seems to espouse xps

If everyone followed that advice, all kids would end up with malcontent parents.

hardly an uncommon outcome either way tbf

he basically said not to have them if we already have a fulfilling life, bc kids aren't that great and bring you a great deal of trouble and can be a huge burden... lol!!!!

My mom used to say this to me and my sister all of the time.

ty for kind words all

ENBB FWIW I've done more to further my own selfish dreams since I've become a dad than in all the years before. There is definitely something "focusing" about it.

― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:02 PM Bookmark

This is sort of the sense I started to feel. I remember noting that Robert Moses had kids very early and right in the middle of his ascendance -- not that he's exactly a role model but he certainly did have an impressive and productive career, and it seems like he was an involved father in spite of his constant work, at least in his early years.