U.S. Presidents - Framers Edition

My take:

Washington - I like the revisionist take that has settled the question of his intelligence and shrewdness. It's quite simply impossible to imagine the union holding together without the force of his personality and his restraint.

Adams - Maybe the brainiest of the group; also the most ill-tempered and unreasonable, which means he shouldn't have been president. Deserves immense credit for keeping us out of a war with France that would likely have bankrupted the Union. The conventional blot on his record are the Alien & Sedition Acts

Jefferson - Well, um...a complicated guy.

Madison - Better legislator and manipulator of men behind the scenes than as president. Hard to imagine on horseback leading troops to battle during War of 1812.

Monroe - A non-entity (Jefferson and Adams both dismissed him as a hack) who served during the quietest time in the Republic's history.

The current trendy choice would be Adams. I think you gotta go with the General, though.

That's a pretty good starting five.

All of this is just prelude to the big Canadian Prime Ministers poll, right?

Alfred is pretty much otm here.

Jefferson has always had his fans, me included, on account of his far ranging intellect and amazing talents. Washington just can't hold a candle to Jefferson in terms of those charismatic traits; he was rather a tight-ass.

Still, Washington was the man every single one of the founders agreed must be the first president. It was as evident to them as the sun in the sky. George was the go-to guy, the one man inspired near-universal trust and confidence, the one who stood above party and faction, the man who could stand in as a surrogate for the discarded monarchy until further notice.

They were in the best situation to judge on this. I'll go with their judgement.

the portrait of Washington that is freshest in my mind is the hilariously bitter one in Gore Vidal's "Burr" but even so it's hard not to conclude that he was the best of the early guys. Basically it's a miracle that anyone was able to hold the country together at all. lol he seems kinda boring tho - Jefferson def the most interesting of the lot.

The consnesus around Washington at the time was a bit like the old story about Themistocles.

When the Persians were threatening Athens, the eleven Athenian generals had to choose who would be elevated to supreme command, so they took a secret ballot. Every general voted for himself as first choice. Every general but Themistocles voted for Themistocles as his second choice.

Burr is fabulous on Jefferson.

Jefferson = atheist?

sort of

I don't want Washington to take this like Eisenhower almost did in my last poll, even though he's most deserving.

I would pick Washington if this was a 1-44 poll.

all pretty great in their own way (except monroe, who i can't recall that much about right now). i'd probably rank washington above any other president except lincoln, but jefferson stands alone as a sui generis kind of figure who can't really be compared to anyone else in history. judged just as a president, it's george; for all-around importance and interestingness, it's tom.

has anyone read the henry adams books on jefferson and madison's administrations? every year of college i swore i'd tackle them, but never did.

i hope alfred ultimately pursues this polling project back to the pre-1066 british kings.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

has anyone read the henry adams books on jefferson and madison's administrations? every year of college i swore i'd tackle them, but never did.

I read a hefty chunk of the first volume (Jefferson). As mellifluous, ironic, and captivating as you expect. I'm serious -- it's like reading a novel written by a more modern Gibbon.

6'7" fucking killing for fun

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

haha -- who voted for Monroe?

Bumping cuz Ron Chernow's Washington bio is pretty good.