He or she

they

Ey

I am a steadfast defender of "they".

s/he

y'all

I hugged em.

Ze.

(s)he

I will defend 'they' until the day I die.

The best thing about using "they" in the singular is that it is how people talk anyway and there is no need to create and get people to use a whole new word! : )

xe

ou

that person

it

I use "they" whether or not it's wrong, nothing more annoying than reading sentences cluttered with "he or she", "him or her", or any of its variants

"he or she", "she or he", "he/she", "she/he", "s(he)", and "s/he" all impose a gender binary that doesn't exist in all cases. gender-neutral pronouns are usually used in cases where gender is irrelevant or unknown, but these constructions sort of defeat that purpose by calling extra attention to gender.

all subjective and objective personal pronouns in the English language are monosyllabic, so "he or she", "she or he", "he/she",

"s(he) and "s/he" are unpronounceable.

any pronoun with a ( ) or a / is some typographically awkward bullshit.

and "she/he" are cumbersome by comparison, both in writing and speech.

on the other hand, "he or she", "she or he", "he/she", "s(he) and "s/he" are already pretty widely used in writing, and at least they're reasonably gender-neutral.

when gender is unknown, it's inaccurate and misleading to use either "he" or "she".

besides, "he" is just plain sexist, no matter how proper or traditional it may be.

neologisms like "ze" and "hir" and "ey" are nice because they sidestep all of the above problems. but I doubt the general public will ever uniformly accept a new pronoun into their lexicon; there's too great a risk of backlash from the "political correctness gone mad" crowd. I could be wrong about this.

come to think of it, "hir" sounds exactly like "her", which is confusing.

"they" is the same word as the plural personal pronoun, so it can be ambiguous.

on the plus side, the singular "they" has been used semi-formally for centuries (hai Shakespeare!), and it doesn't call attention to itself as a bleeding heart libtard feminist pinko coinage. it's short, it takes gender out of the equation, and it's unambiguous in most contexts. if you interpret "when I meet one of my friends, I hug them" as "I hug more than one friend at a time," then your reading comprehension, rather than the pronoun usage, is at fault.

I voted for "they".

oops, should read "all subjective and objective personal pronouns in the English language are monosyllabic, so "he or she", "she or he", "he/she", and "she/he" are cumbersome by comparison."

"he or she", "she or he", "he/she", "she/he", "s(he)", and "s/he" all impose a gender binary that doesn't exist in all cases

vs "they" can lead to confusion!

tbh i've never had a case "where gender is irrelevant [because it's ALWAYS relevant] or unknown"

they

surprised so many of yall are defending "they," it looks terrible in formal writing

in the workplace tho, doing it any other way leads to really annoying cluttered documents

i guess 'he or she' offends persons of no gender, but we don't have a non-gender-specific pronoun and some of us care about grammar goddamnit

nah jokes

i totally use 'ey'

xp i mean i don't know how often you need to write he or she at your workplace but i don't think it's really that disruptive

yon

surprised so many of yall are defending "they," it looks terrible in formal writing

― call all destroyer, Thursday, 26 August 2010 15:38 (3 minutes ago)

yall on the other hand wd be a sterling addition to the legal lexicon imo

xp i mean i don't know how often you need to write he or she at your workplace but i don't think it's really that disruptive

a lot, actually -- when writing standard ops, especially. and i've seen some who write em exclusively with "he/she" and it gets really really really annoying....

gender isn't always relevant, history mayne.

is the sentence "if a person wishes to lose weight, they should eat celery and run marathons" confusing because it doesn't specify that the subject could be either male or female?

imho it's no more necessary to point out that a hypothetical/nonspecific person could be either male or female than it is to specify that they could be either black or white, introverted or extroverted, rockist or popist, etc. gender may be the traditional way to identify all people, including hypothetical ones, but that doesn't mean it isn't totally arbitrary and redundant.

the singular pronoun "they" implies all-inclusiveness. no need to spell it out with long-winded (s)he's and he/she's unless your audience is very very dumb.

kinda shocked no one has voted for WE

WE

they all the way

i hardly ever have to do this as it goes. you can often refer to the person by ey job/position/_____ or... in some other way. it happens once in a blue moon for me anyway

is the sentence "if a person wishes to lose weight, they should eat celery and run marathons" confusing because it doesn't specify that the subject could be either male or female?

no, it's confusing because it's ungrammatical

i will try to think of an example that is properly confusing though

xxxp except they isn't a singular pronoun

is the SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION OF GENDER totally arbitrary and redundant y/n -- poll concept

and yeah nakhchivan you can be sure i use yall in my official capacity responding to rfp documents you goof

xxxp except they isn't a singular pronoun

― call all destroyer, Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:50 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark

p sure it's 'he'? it's pure a formal thing. gender is arbitrary and irrelevant and fluctuating n e ways who who even cares?

kinda shocked no one has voted for WE

WE

Oh hi Ms. Rand

xxxp except they isn't a singular pronoun

it can be, and often is.

if they can be a singular pronoun then he can be gender-neutral

it basically is when it refers to an indefinite group like everybody or nobody. but imo something like

"if a member forgets their password, they may click a link to reset it"

looks bad.

it's actually best to write stuff in a way that avoids he or she completely wherever possible

^^^

Singular they has routinely been used throughout the history of English, by all the best writers

Singular they has routinely been used throughout the history of English, by all the best writers

― ledge, Thursday, August 26, 2010

this conservative, precedent-based argument holds no water for me

like, oh, if old-timey writers did it i guess it's ok?

yeah cool imma write all my business docs like billy shakes

xp ok minor lol but prescriptively or descriptively, you lose

it basically is when it refers to an indefinite group like everybody or nobody. but imo something like

"if a member forgets their password, they may click a link to reset it"

looks bad.

See, this doesn't look bad to me at all. It looks like a proper sentence. Because it IS a proper sentence. Please tell me how you would be confused by this.

seriously anyone who thinks singular "they" is ungrammatical is a whiny pedant

i'm not arguing that it's confusing, but from a style and usage perspective, there are several better choices

i'm perfectly fine with using gendered pronouns in reference to an unknown party, as long as they are consistent (if you start a 'graph using 'he' as your placeholder, continue doing so for the remainder of the graph) and somewhat balanced (use 'she' next time you need a placeholder).

'they' is fine colloquially I guess but once you get into 'they're' / 'their' territory it can get confusing

I cringe when I see people use they for singular when the gender *is* known but the person is kind of theoretical. "I'm looking for a woman to have a relationship with; they must like to do the things I like."

well that's just silly

though i mean i guess it raises the point about gender being arbitrary and irrelevant

I guess the dictionary usage note leaves it up to the individual writer or the publication stylesheet. Maybe after the poll is over the winning usage should be imposed on all future posts by having it added to the ILX faq and software.

Also: enrique, you enrage me more than any other smart person on ILX

'he or she'
'him or her'
'his or her'
'his and hers'
'she and him'

http://www.140db.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/ed-buller-albums/pulp-his-n-hers.jpg

http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/108/584/117/UgINviqcNqtu26n.jpg

awesome

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yTu5oSSPL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

her?

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6486/bpg871mkc420.jpg

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3777/bpb861mkc420.jpg

that may be the lamest thing I've ever seen

wtf

comparing children to edible chocolate candies c/d

fuck's sake

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2908/sr081mkc420.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4120/sr081mk1src420.jpg

her?

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4120/sr081mk1src420.jpg

This implies you should be sharing four meals a day. I don't think these people really understand %DVs...they aren't some Mastercard add that adds up to "100% PRICELESS" at the end.

"based on having fun"

SOrry to derailthis conversation but that thing....ainfviaoNDE

yea like I would instantly defriend people who created lame stuff lke that. AND NOT JUST ON FACEBOOK, irl too

and yeah nakhchivan you can be sure i use yall in my official capacity responding to rfp documents you goof

― call all destroyer, Thursday, 26 August 2010 15:51 (2 hours ago)

enough w/ the autistic inability to discern whimsical from admonitory (yall)

They. 'He' is already looking like Telegraph writers trying to 'reclaim' 'gay'. Perhaps wrongly, 'she' still makes me instinctively look around and go 'who?'

this isn't an issue at all

nevermind the official approval for they, i don't see the problem in a pronoun that's ambiguous wrt gender and person (they can fuck off, etc)

if u want to be more specific then there's always a way...

'they call boats she'

Telegraph writers trying to 'reclaim' 'gay'.

waht

they're prob having a gay time over there

what

Sorry, making lazy connections. I just get the feeling now that when writers use 'he' as a general pronoun, it's become almost a statement of defence, trying to turn back the clock before people began to feel there was something implicitly wrong about its use. In this sense (god, it really was a lazy connection wasn't it?) it reminded me of those writers who felt they should still be allowed to use the word 'gay' in its 'original' sense, and that this option had been taken away from them by ne'er-do-well progressives.

Sorry, shouldn't have even bothered with that. I'm sitting here with a beer wondering whether to go to the ILX FAP if that's any excuse. On this form I probably shouldn't.

what waht

Christ, can't even quote properly.

I thought the Heresheis bar was kind of cute, especially if they actually had them made up with real chocolate and passed out instead of cigars.

i do my level best never to use 'they' though i am also working on being less of a pedant about it when others do

i dont really have a problem with "he or she"--is it really that awkward-sounding to people? "they" sounds much more awkward to me.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QHzeNbFB07o/Rk6T2zKfTxI/AAAAAAAAAGk/DpTpmtJ10IQ/s320/The+Story+Of+Them+feat.Van+Morrison.jpg

i'm perfectly fine with using gendered pronouns in reference to an unknown party, as long as they are consistent (if you start a 'graph using 'he' as your placeholder, continue doing so for the remainder of the graph) and somewhat balanced (use 'she' next time you need a placeholder).

I find "balanced" alternating placeholder genders way more annoying than just "he", personally. It leaps out of the text and makes me spend the next minute wondering if they had to make a tally of gendered placeholders and ensure it came out exactly 50:50, and what can be inferred from Woman being chosen to do Suggested Activities 2 and 4 and Man to do 1 and 3, etc.

(Admittedly unlike the other women onthread I am not incensed by "he" - suspect I generally do not even notice it)

I'm in the "they" camp, though I admit it can lead to some pretty silly or ungainly sentences, but so can all the other options. "He or she" is OK on its own but gets out of hand when you need to refer back to, er, him or her.

I agree, alternating she and he is hugely distracting. There's nearly always a good way to rewrite avoiding gendered pronouns, but I'm okay with singular they.

"if a member forgets their password, they may click a link to reset it"
Clicking a link enables a member to reset a forgotten password.

Every time I see "he or she" all I can think of is the Pat theme song
("A lot of people say 'Who's he...or she?'")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FbUGkouIPg

rilly don't get anti-'they' people itt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRjKHdK77c

http://activedistributionshop.org/shop/958-903-large/inner-terrestrials-it-.jpg

my 6th grade english teacher lamented the natural contraction of she/he/it was already taken

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

The main reason for grammar is to make necessary distinctions, thereby avoiding needless confusion and miscommunication. Most of the choices given are able to serve this requirement just fine, although (s)he and s/he have the difficulty of being unpronounceable and therefore inapplicable to spoken usage. I tend to use 'they' or 'he', but I have used 'he or she' at times. /pedantry

No ONE, no cred.

― A Chart Hit of Some Sort (Eazy), Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:02 PM

there are times when 'one' doesn' work im p sure

p sure it can be made work more often than any of the alternatives, although tbh i'm a 'they' man meself.

they. butted heads with coauthor over this. he won because he's my boss, but he's french canadian, which augurs worse for non-they than they having its argument supported by a wiki entry tbh.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

i'd say 'controversy' but um this was a landslide

boo, groan

i shd have specified written/spoken, maybe. i totally *say* 'they', but write it, never.

CONCLUSIVE.