"To His Coy Mistress" vs. " To the Virgins"

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Not only because everyone gets them confused, but because they're worthy opponents.

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Had we but world enough, and time 11
Gather ye rose-buds while ye may 1


when you've got a fist all ur problems look like faces (kenan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:20 (fifteen years ago)

Marvell in a shot.

'...I by the tide
Of Humber would complain'

'Deserts of vast eternity'

and the rest.

Nothing against Herrick, but this is, what? a good song against a great poem?

GamalielRatsey, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:26 (fifteen years ago)

One could argue that Herrick puts the same idea more succinctly, without having to call to mind the awful things that worms will one day do.

when you've got a fist all ur problems look like faces (kenan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:30 (fifteen years ago)

Yes, I do wish those worms wouldn't try her virginity.

I guess the different times they were working in, with Herrick at the beginning of this sort of thing, and Marvell at its glorious end, have an effect on the two styles, but even taking that into account (and I like the complexity of the later metaphysicals, tho Raleigh is a strong favourite as well) it's still Marvell, from the excellent ironic imagery at the beginning to the wry urbanity of

The grave's a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.

GamalielRatsey, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:38 (fifteen years ago)

Marvell by so far he can't see Herrick throwing flowers about in the distance.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:42 (fifteen years ago)

I appreciate a little tension between the lines as much as the next guy, but there's something to be said for guilelessness as well.

when you've got a fist all ur problems look like faces (kenan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:48 (fifteen years ago)

clash of sibilants leading to awkward scansion in herrick poem 3rd stanza is fucking awful, this is the most uneven poll match-up in ILX history I think?

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:48 (fifteen years ago)

I'm v. careful about judging scansion on pre-19th century poetry especially when the spelling and punctuation have been fucked with for contemporary schoolchildren to digest. Herrick's poem is not awful by any means but the lightness of the lyric dips into straight Hallmark territory at times and he's competing with one of the greatest poems ever written. Sorry son.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:56 (fifteen years ago)

poll needs Donne's "The Flea" as a dark horse

a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 08:59 (fifteen years ago)

um that wouldn't be a dark horse. although The Flea versus THCM would be a bruising duel and one which would tax me enormously

NV pretty much has it in one although I maintain "Times, still" is awkward, made worse by the "worst/Times" enjambement throwing a resetted T into the mix - "worst/still Times" works much better sonically, even if it is gibberish :D

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 09:14 (fifteen years ago)

I mean you've already heard my opinions on Marvell (he is GRATE)

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 09:14 (fifteen years ago)

The exact moment where this poem leaps from "excellent" into "fucking hell Andrew you ruddy genius":

...then worms shall try
That long preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust:
The grave 's a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.

^^^completely gleeful, funny, morbid, cosmic-profound-humour stuff

The bombastic irony in the first part where he professes how many years he would regard her body with his 'vegetable' (hurrr) love is also amazing, as is the part at the end where the kinesis of desire finally materialises in a perfect Mataphysical storm of analogy - put together, the whole makes a fucking incredible piece of work - intimate, grandstanding, tender, wry; everything a lover should be, really

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 09:21 (fifteen years ago)

fuck it of course this is better than The Flea

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 09:23 (fifteen years ago)

marvell, of course, one of my favorite things. have it very nearly memorized (which ultimately means "not memorized", yeah, but mine sounds better).

"vaster than empires, and more slow." ffs

so many awesome, sly asides: "til the conversion of the jews," "and thirty thousand to the rest..."

the weird fucking full-stop on "deserts of vast eternity." fucking up the flow just so's you take notice.

"and while thy willing soul transpires / at every pore with instant fires,"
"...though we cannot make our sun / stand still, yet we will make him run."

FFS

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:12 (fifteen years ago)

yeah the more I read it (and of course I'd read and liked it before) the more absolutely flaming incredible it gets and the more I'm content that my rash 'Marvell >>> Donne' post on that other thread wasn't actually that rash ('Marvell = Donne' probably a wiser call)

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:19 (fifteen years ago)

"vaster than empires, and more slow." ffs

like, really

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:20 (fifteen years ago)

xpost

Nah dude because you're still comparing a smaller body of work to a broader and equally pyrotechnic body. Don't think Marvell does anything Donne doesn't, but vice versa is not the case.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:21 (fifteen years ago)

Don't think Marvell does anything Donne doesn't

gonna take up that challenge if that's ok

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:22 (fifteen years ago)

I will admit that the premise of this thread may have been very silly, but I'm having a lot of fun reading it right now.

when you've got a fist all ur problems look like faces (kenan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:24 (fifteen years ago)

xpost

I am surely not gonna try and prove the assertion by algebra so I wd suggest you get into something like Donne's Holy Sonnets or the Meditations.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:25 (fifteen years ago)

oh ok that sounds like a better plan than presenting Marvell's Mower saga and being all 'HAHAAAAAAA'

acoleuthic, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:27 (fifteen years ago)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 16 September 2010 23:01 (fifteen years ago)

GamalielRatsey otm in 1st reply after OP.

Aimless, Friday, 17 September 2010 00:31 (fifteen years ago)

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 17 September 2010 23:01 (fifteen years ago)

ban kenan

acoleuthic, Friday, 17 September 2010 23:02 (fifteen years ago)

UN Secretary-General Ban Kenan

acoleuthic, Friday, 17 September 2010 23:02 (fifteen years ago)

Raise your hand if you're Sure...whoops, wrong deodorant.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, 17 September 2010 23:25 (fifteen years ago)


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