"To His Coy Mistress" vs. " To the Virgins"

Marvell in a shot.

'...I by the tide
Of Humber would complain'

'Deserts of vast eternity'

and the rest.

Nothing against Herrick, but this is, what? a good song against a great poem?

One could argue that Herrick puts the same idea more succinctly, without having to call to mind the awful things that worms will one day do.

Yes, I do wish those worms wouldn't try her virginity.

I guess the different times they were working in, with Herrick at the beginning of this sort of thing, and Marvell at its glorious end, have an effect on the two styles, but even taking that into account (and I like the complexity of the later metaphysicals, tho Raleigh is a strong favourite as well) it's still Marvell, from the excellent ironic imagery at the beginning to the wry urbanity of

The grave's a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.

Marvell by so far he can't see Herrick throwing flowers about in the distance.

I appreciate a little tension between the lines as much as the next guy, but there's something to be said for guilelessness as well.

clash of sibilants leading to awkward scansion in herrick poem 3rd stanza is fucking awful, this is the most uneven poll match-up in ILX history I think?

I'm v. careful about judging scansion on pre-19th century poetry especially when the spelling and punctuation have been fucked with for contemporary schoolchildren to digest. Herrick's poem is not awful by any means but the lightness of the lyric dips into straight Hallmark territory at times and he's competing with one of the greatest poems ever written. Sorry son.

poll needs Donne's "The Flea" as a dark horse

um that wouldn't be a dark horse. although The Flea versus THCM would be a bruising duel and one which would tax me enormously

NV pretty much has it in one although I maintain "Times, still" is awkward, made worse by the "worst/Times" enjambement throwing a resetted T into the mix - "worst/still Times" works much better sonically, even if it is gibberish :D

I mean you've already heard my opinions on Marvell (he is GRATE)

The exact moment where this poem leaps from "excellent" into "fucking hell Andrew you ruddy genius":

...then worms shall try
That long preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust:
The grave 's a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.

^^^completely gleeful, funny, morbid, cosmic-profound-humour stuff

The bombastic irony in the first part where he professes how many years he would regard her body with his 'vegetable' (hurrr) love is also amazing, as is the part at the end where the kinesis of desire finally materialises in a perfect Mataphysical storm of analogy - put together, the whole makes a fucking incredible piece of work - intimate, grandstanding, tender, wry; everything a lover should be, really

fuck it of course this is better than The Flea

marvell, of course, one of my favorite things. have it very nearly memorized (which ultimately means "not memorized", yeah, but mine sounds better).

"vaster than empires, and more slow." ffs

so many awesome, sly asides: "til the conversion of the jews," "and thirty thousand to the rest..."

the weird fucking full-stop on "deserts of vast eternity." fucking up the flow just so's you take notice.

"and while thy willing soul transpires / at every pore with instant fires,"
"...though we cannot make our sun / stand still, yet we will make him run."

FFS

yeah the more I read it (and of course I'd read and liked it before) the more absolutely flaming incredible it gets and the more I'm content that my rash 'Marvell >>> Donne' post on that other thread wasn't actually that rash ('Marvell = Donne' probably a wiser call)

"vaster than empires, and more slow." ffs

like, really

xpost

Nah dude because you're still comparing a smaller body of work to a broader and equally pyrotechnic body. Don't think Marvell does anything Donne doesn't, but vice versa is not the case.

Don't think Marvell does anything Donne doesn't

gonna take up that challenge if that's ok

I will admit that the premise of this thread may have been very silly, but I'm having a lot of fun reading it right now.

xpost

I am surely not gonna try and prove the assertion by algebra so I wd suggest you get into something like Donne's Holy Sonnets or the Meditations.

oh ok that sounds like a better plan than presenting Marvell's Mower saga and being all 'HAHAAAAAAA'

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

GamalielRatsey otm in 1st reply after OP.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ban kenan

UN Secretary-General Ban Kenan

Raise your hand if you're Sure...whoops, wrong deodorant.