Reading L.J. Davis's "A Meaningful Life" right now, which has a number of similarities to another recent read, Revolutionary Road. Updike also comes to mind, although I've only read Rabbit Run and some short stories. I felt an urge to start a thread about this, but I'm not sure what shape it should take, much as the middle class protagonists of these novels feel an urge to free themselves but can't define what freedom would look like.
― Ground Zero Mostel (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:21 (fifteen years ago)
I love the Andre Dubus novella and short stories they collected for the We Don't Live Here Anymore movie tie-in. I think it might be out of print but there should be copies available online.
― a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:23 (fifteen years ago)
The Ice Storm (book and film)
― franny glass, Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:23 (fifteen years ago)
The Exley Thread and also "Minor American Realists" - good recs here
― a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:24 (fifteen years ago)
Oh yeah, The Ice Storm is a good one.
― Ground Zero Mostel (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:25 (fifteen years ago)
One thing I was wondering is whether there's some connection between these novels and the popularization of Freud (Civilization and its Discontents, etc.). I mean is part of what fuels these novels just the idea that there is something inherently frustrating about the bargains we accept in order to live in civilization, and that our frustration and rage manifests itself as boredom, strange behavior, addictions, adultery, etc.?
― Ground Zero Mostel (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:28 (fifteen years ago)
Those themes pre-date Freud by a good way tho - Middlemarch, Madame Bovary, hell Don Quixote has a lot to say about strange behaviour brought on by the frustration of living in civilization. I think a lot of what fuels the novel full stop is the pain of living a bourgeois life.
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:36 (fifteen years ago)
There is maybe a shift in authorial attitudes towards the crushingness of respectability tho, from tragic inescapable fate to existential choice?
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:37 (fifteen years ago)
Hmm, yeah. Even the difference between Revolutionary Road and Meaningful Life is noticeable (what, like 1961 vs. 1971?). In the first, a more bohemian life seems like this remote possibility that you know its characters will never really act on (although it's probably more palpable than it would have been in 1951). In the second, the characters are quicker to actually try something else, though the wife is skeptical (I assume it doesn't exactly work out, but I haven't gotten that far). The Ice Storm, written from a very post-70s perspective, is partly about the futility of attempts to escape bourgeois life through sort of controlled anti-bourgeois activities within the bourgeois sphere.
― Ground Zero Mostel (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:53 (fifteen years ago)
Russian literature is full of this. Family Happiness, the Death of Ivan Ilyich, The Idiot. Noodle I think you have a good point. Just being able to sit down and write a novel would elicit this type of boredom. I read a lot of Douglas Coupland in high school which was probably my first encounter with the doom of a large privilaged class.
I think Gone with the Wind would fit with that shift, too. Although I don't know when/where you think the shift took place or whether people would consider Gone with the Wind to be literature. It was a pretty important part of my development at 13, honestly.
Oh you were talking about those specific books, nm. xp
― peacocks, Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:55 (fifteen years ago)
No, not about those specific books. I think there's maybe a general shift in the attitudes of novelists, maybe at different times in different countries but still. Haven't read Gone with the Wind tbh but don't see why it wouldn't be part of that shift.
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 16 September 2010 19:59 (fifteen years ago)
Maybe a class that was able to produce or read novels was always gonna be prey to certain kinds of ennui and stifle-ment, but the options open to that class change thru time.
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 16 September 2010 20:00 (fifteen years ago)
is the book good, btw? i never knew it was a moody novel until i saw it on the shelf a couple of days ago.
these probably fit, also. the latter usually gets lumped in with like franzen-antecedent family novels, but it fits:
http://filmsdefrance.com/1975_Jeanne_Dielman_23_Quai_du_Commerce_1080_Bruxelles.jpg
http://www.illiterarty.com/files/www.illiterarty.com/img/10/something_happened.jpg
― FORTIFIED STEAMED VEGETABLE BOWL (schlump), Thursday, 16 September 2010 21:26 (fifteen years ago)
A couple of not-widely-seen films from the early '70s: Desperate Characters and Loving. I think they fit, but I'd have to watch them again to be sure.
― clemenza, Thursday, 16 September 2010 22:12 (fifteen years ago)
desperate characters is based on the paula fox novel, right?
― just1n3, Thursday, 16 September 2010 22:42 (fifteen years ago)
yes, the novel def fits
― buzza, Thursday, 16 September 2010 22:45 (fifteen years ago)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/105274.jpg
― (e_3) (Edward III), Friday, 17 September 2010 02:06 (fifteen years ago)
"Antoniennui," Sarris called it.
― clemenza, Friday, 17 September 2010 02:13 (fifteen years ago)
I keep thinking of Sagan and then dismissing it because all her characters are actually upper class. Damn.
― emil.y, Friday, 17 September 2010 10:59 (fifteen years ago)
there's a film of desperate characters? rad, gonna check it out
― just sayin, Friday, 17 September 2010 11:12 (fifteen years ago)
The Ice Storm (book and film)is the book good, btw? i never knew it was a moody novel until i saw it on the shelf a couple of days ago.
I read it about 5 years ago and enjoyed it. I don't remember a whole lot about it, except for a couple of really good scenes. I think it would resonate with me much more now that I'm married and have moved to the suburbs.
― franny glass, Friday, 17 September 2010 13:27 (fifteen years ago)
I haven't seen the movie.
look to that display name
― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Friday, 17 September 2010 13:28 (fifteen years ago)
Sinclair Lewis, "Babbitt."
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 September 2010 13:40 (fifteen years ago)
Reading Desperate Characters now. Certainly some striking similarities to the LJ Davis, but I find it much richer and more beautifully written. I almost wanted to start a separate thread on "gentrification novels." I actually had this kind of deadpan ironic idea to make a book set called "The Brownstone Novels" and it could feature A Meaningful Life, Fortress of Solitude, Desperate Characters, idk something by Amy Sohn, and whatever else, and the spines would have the facades of brownstones on them, so they fit together like a little Brooklyn block. And of course every book would have an introduction by Jonathan Lethem, and there would also be an essay for the whole set by Jonathan Lethem, because Jonathan Lethem has some kind of lifetime contract that gives him right of first refusal on the introduction for any book about brooklyn or brownstones.
― bert yansh (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 01:50 (thirteen years ago)