Old friends who've lost their minds

_CRAZY_
or
*crazy*

a good friend got addicted to coke for a while, I believe. His moods became awful and I worried about him, but he's alright now.

just say no, kids!

bill

so my old friend, she got married too young. and had kids. and now she's asking me what she should do cuz she feels stuck. i mean, i can't say anything.

"yup. you're stuck."

kids are non-returnable, non-refundable

She can terminate the marriage, can't say I recommend that for the kids...

thats what she just posed to me. should i put my happiness before my kids'

i'm like, you know i can't say

Tell her to grow up.

But you can say. "DON'T abandon your kids." It's very rude.

so tricky :/ especially cuz at the time she got married, i was so worried for her. which i've been honest with her about since then. but what am i gonna do tell her to leave her husband? that's just not something anyone does. unless the husband is beating her and it's a lifetime original movie.

she isn't stuck. her kids are stuck. she needs to do what's best for them.

thats what she just posed to me. should i put my happiness before my kids'

i'm like, you know i can't say

-- Surmounter, Friday, August 15, 2008 3:36 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

you should say no.

and tell her there must be a way that she and her kids can both be happy... it just might not be the most obvious/easy choice.

There are other cures for feeling "stuck" than leaving your relationship. it's one of the great myths of society (especially for women) that your relationship is the only thing that can validate you. There are other ways that she can grow and "unstick" herself that have nothing to do with relationships - education, career change, etc. etc.

Though as a general caveat on the whole "for the sake of the kids..." thing... As if kids don't notice and/or suffer when their parent is desperately unhappy! In general, desperately unhappy people don't always make for particularly good parents.

how old are the kids? she's not stuck for the rest of her life but she may have to wait a few years to get unstuck, which really should have been her very first thought upon realising she was pregnant

or, just send 'em to boarding school and divorce hubby

they'll love that

the kids are 2 and 3...

tell her to combine them into 5-year-old... might be less stress to deal with only one

tell her to ask strangers on the internet, most of which are unmarried and have no kids, for advice

but i don't know if i can agree that if you get married, have kids and deeply regret it, that you can't get out of that. it just seems so sad

well, unless she can afford a fulltime nanny she's basically got to suck it up for the next few years at least. suspect she knows this and just needed to let off steam to you

Well, would she consider leaving the kids with their father?

You can get out of being married. You can't get out of having kids.

(Though unfortunately, in practise, men seem really adept at getting out of that latter one.)

yes Laurel, which is kind of scary to me. the idea of being able to do that

surmounter, i earnestly hope that her situation is something like: "i am not feeling personally fulfilled because being a mother is my priority so i can't spend my time & resources on my own personal & professional goals."

if, on the other hand, her situation is more like: "i thought motherhood was going to give my life meaning but now i've got kids and i'm just not feeling it, how can i get out of this" then she's just being horrible and selfish

what if it's just like "i thought i wanted a family, that i was ready for it, but i'm not, and i'm really unhappy"

that can't be horrible and selfish

uh, kinda

uh, no

it's a sad story and this lot aren't very sympathetic

i'm sure that happens ALL THE TIME. it's not wrong to have feelings.

Encourage her to pursue other goals while remaining in her family. I think that's the best you can do. Remind her, or try to get her to think about goals/ambitions she had before starting a family, and working on ways that she can approach them.

uh, depends on what she does about it.

uh, yup. :D

i somehow doubt that leaving her husband & her children is going to do anything for her happiness, honestly!

If it was just her husband that's one thing, she shouldn't drag it out with him and finally leave him when he's 50 just because of the kids; she can leave him and still be there for her babies. But if she's looking to ditch it all and hit the opposite coast and never look back then I think she needs to think again. I'm sympathetic and all, but the kids man...

you know, i don't think it is horrible and selfish at all, it's totally understandable. but it's not a situation she can get out of now!

tell her to take out all of her frustration and anxiety on her kids

(um what a strange thread to revive for this dilemma.)

I have known people who were in this exact same situation, but luckily they had extended family (grandparents in the case I'm thinking of) who could step in and take guardianship of the children while the person sorted out their life. Is this an option for your friend?

and yeah k8 otm...in what ways does she feel unfulfilled? does she want more of a career, more time to pursue her own interests, more time to spend with her husband? those are all doable. if she wants more time to be free & single that probably isn't.

Kate is talking sense here really. If the marriage isn't working and looks like it never will, then staying in it for the sake of the kids will not help the kids in the long run.

If she just wants out and back to her old carefree days then my first post applies. Do you know for sure that this isn't just a temporary wobble?

OR tell her to put pressure on her kids to succeed at the things she thinks she'll never be able to do

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/64/213630774_5a785eb68c.jpg?v=0

I AM WALL
AND SUCH WALL THAT I MIGHT HAVE THINK
IN IT A CRANNY/HOL ORCHINK
THRU WHICH THEE LOVERS PYRAMUS & THISBY
ARE MADE TO WHISPER

often quite discreetly?

HI DERE WALL PROTOCETS YOU FROM ELEMENTS

EVEN ARGON

A wall won't protect you from anything when the Hadron Supercollider kills us all!

HARD ON SUPERCOLLIDE HER

Don't make me start going on about Dr. Cox again!

WATCH OUT FOR 2012 K8

AND I DON'T MEAN NU-RAVE OILYMPICS

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=88491021&albumID=289927&imageID=26430285

I meant...

http://a90.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/64/l_3891dd75c1ecb28f2c68440b517be259.gif

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH PERFECT

wtf

get into it, elmo!

oh hell no

ELMO GET FUCKING INTO IT NOW

I ASKED NICELY ONCE

I WILL COUNT TO THREE HERE

ONE

I do believe Abbot and I have lost our minds. So the thread is finally back on topic. Hurrah!

can i get into it... somewhere else?

cheers!

GET INTO IT

(I love that animation so much, ZS! I can never thank you enough.)

TWO

i don't understand what i am supposed to get into

i am not getting into that van

hey, do you guys know that song by red house painters called "michael"? it's kind of what i gather that this thread's all about (confession: TOO LONG; DIDN'T READ). anyhow, i just called the "michael" in my life. beautiful person. he never "lost his mind", but he went through some heavy shit. use your imagination. suffice it to say that there's no way that i would have so many of the good qualities inside of me that i do now if i had never encountered him. the man is a sweet soul.

i will report back when i hear from him.

get into it pick one

a) the van
b) the groove
c) hipster badminton
d) drunken 15 minute animations

Just get into it, Elmo. You don't want to know what happens when Abbott hits THREE.

(by the way, the threat of THREE is what first got me into it too)

oh yeah, the groove!

okay, i can get into the groove

phew.

Haha Dell I think "Michael" goes under the thread title "Old friends who've lost their minds AGAIN" / ("I didn't know you ever did")

wrath of abbott narrowly averted

Sur, I hope your friend a solution which enables everyone to be happy. I can understand her feelings (though I don't feel it that way myself). To say she's selfish, is to oversimplify things. Kate was very much OTM. I think it is VERY important for a parent to have a life "outside" the family. Have hobbies, friends,... so that you don't feel imprisoned.

OH DEAR GOD ELMO YEAH YOU ARE ONE LUCKY BASTID YOU GOT INTO IT

*grooves*

BOY YOU'VE GOT TO PROVE YOUR LOVE TO ME

You've all had too much coffee haven't you.

I AM IN IT

;)

i met my girl tonight. she's doing well. not really considering doing anything -- just thinking about past decisions, and how they weren't the most informed. she's also taking up her undergrad degree again, and i pressed her to find other means of occupying herself in her free time. all in all, a very positive conversation.

<3

sometimes we say radical things so we can make little changes. i'm happy to hear she's feeling better and more positive. yay

Yay hooray.

(In my case I have determined that the dust bunnies around here share no aesthetic interests with me and must be sacrificed.)

i met my girl tonight. she's doing well. not really considering doing anything -- just thinking about past decisions, and how they weren't the most informed. she's also taking up her undergrad degree again, and i pressed her to find other means of occupying herself in her free time. all in all, a very positive conversation.

This makes me really happy. Be really supportive about that undergrad degree thing, it's a lot more hard work when you're balancing it with a whole real life than when you're a carefree student.

sorry 4 days late but

Seriously, though, why do people get married?

Marriage is an institution. It is a particular thing. You can enter into all manner of long-term, commited relationships and then break up later when shit gets boring or depressing. Or do whatever you want.

Marriage kinda means that you'll slug through feeling stuck or having a bad spot. Marriage means you'll make it work.

I'm not judging your friend. I know very little about her situation. I just think that, in general, people should give a good, long, hard thought about what marriage means. In most situations, I think they folks should do something else.

-- Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Friday, August 15, 2008 4:15 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Link

wow what a load of shit? so if this person wasn't married, but have kids, everything would be alright?!?!

Although I do not fully agree, I do think Fluffy has some valid points. Friend of my cousin was in a longterm relationship for YEARS. Married and then one year later divorced. She said marriage changed everything. And it does.

I think people (without kids) are VERY unaware how much a child really changes your life. It's very easy to say:"Well, get a grip, get your life together." when it's not you in that position. The advice to take a therapist is tossed off, as if to say that just solves the problem. Yes,a therapist can/might help but it's still YOU who has to get through the shit and "get your life together." A breakdown is not uncommon. If you're not feeling well and think you can't cope, being a SAHM is even more difficult for some because you are isolated. Especially if you are financially unable of dropping your kid at a daycare (and work or have a day off, it can be super SUPER hard). Also having two kids is even harder. I am guessing your friend has to take care of them most of the time (while the husband is away), no? Is her husband sometimes away for longer periods? If so, tell her you (and I) am in total awe of how she's doing so much all alone. It'll be hard for her to juggle life. Sometimes women abandon their kids. Although I do not approve at all, I can in some cases understand they would. It takes a lot of character to be a wife/mother/worker.

keeping a marriage going is like keeping your car on the track at the indy 500, it's challenging but a steady hand helps and you can get the hang of it.

having kids is like doing the same with a howling spider monkey loose in the car, and the steering wheel occasionally bursts into flame. you also get the hang of this but it's hell on the nerves.

hey, do you guys know that song by red house painters called "michael"? it's kind of what i gather that this thread's all about (confession: TOO LONG; DIDN'T READ). anyhow, i just called the "michael" in my life. beautiful person. he never "lost his mind", but he went through some heavy shit. use your imagination. suffice it to say that there's no way that i would have so many of the good qualities inside of me that i do now if i had never encountered him. the man is a sweet soul.

i will report back when i hear from him.

talked to him last night. he seems to be in a good place, after having wrestled with junkiedom and alcohol issues over the years... yes, this sounds unbearably cliche, but, fuck if it wasn't sooo good to hear his voice.

i will probably end up seeing him next month.

Close friend is talking to her ex again. Who she's broken up three times over seven years (including once while they were engaged, the first time) for cheating on her, sending her into a couple of nasty drug and alcohol spins. Admits that he'll probably just do it again and can never trust him. But it's love!

Argh.

Saw that someone posted a picture of a friend from high school on Facebook. Scrolled down a bit more and saw that it was a mugshot and a list of charges: Domestic Battery, Strangulation, Cruelty to animals, Intimidation, Criminal Confinement, Battery with Injury. WTF.

The absolute worst I could've said about him back in the day (I haven't talked to him in over 15 years) was that he was a total pothead. But he was also a pretty happy-go-lucky, goofy guy and I never would've predicted he'd come to this.

OH, and this photo came from the Facebook page of the police department in my hometown, where they apparently post every single mugshot they take? Is that seriously on the up-and-up?!

Nude Spock, a story of it's own, yeah?

Had a long text in the week from an old friend I've not seen for a while in which he ranted about Extinction Rebellion and how they wont listen to white men, and then concluded by saying: "May go up on Friday to check it out but may end up in a fight as I don't suffer fools gladly having done so most of my life trying to fit in even though my instincts told me not to".

Which was then followed by homophobic abuse, then an enquiry about my weekend . And then yesterday, more homophobic abuse.

57 years old is quite late in the day to 'lose your mind'