KEYNES V HAYEK: Where does the future lie?

Let them eat Keyek!

Are we supposed to vote our hopes or our fears on this one?

Hopes or the closest approximation to "hope" you can get to based on the options.

or maybe just which one wins the rap battle

Macro Keynes, Micro von Hayek

http://www.lastrefuge.co.uk/images-database/dae%20sasitorn/big/milton-keynes7.jpg
http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/HayekHawt.jpg

I mean, this is really up to you guys, but...

^ surprised to see that post wasn't by nv

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

What's going on in that Salma picture.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

keynes vs friedman would be more interesting ito monetarist/supply side v.s fiscal/demand side, & like hayek's rejection of neoclassical modeling on arguably retarded ~ideological~ grounds gives him an unfair disadvantage. but whatev clearly ilx are not interested in this topic which is actually refreshing. as an econ major this is one of the few topics ppl w/ no knowledge of economics feel strongly & will argue about and it's always disgusting the stuff they come up with -- i don't even know anything about it but srsly

just scanning the hayek article on wikipedia now, it's gross these people literally have hard-ons for economists. so much of it is just blatantly misused, affirming ppl's political ideology, like ffs get real

keynes vs friedman would be more interesting

do they have a rap battle on youtube?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_01/beyond_keynes048732.php

http://prospect.org/article/when-public-opinions-collide#.Ut_spHmtuhc

Faced with the public’s failure to view or understand issues from a consistently Keynesian framework, progressive political strategists and commentators have generally responded in one of two ways. One group simply “cherry-picks” the polling data to find a subset of results that support their perspective and justifies this selective approach by arguing that most people must “really” believe a progressive, basically Keynesian perspective and are merely reciting superficial conservative clichés when they reply in ways that seem to support the alternative view. A second group of commentators accepts the deeply contradictory range of opinion data and draws from it the conclusion that most Americans simply do not understand enough about economics to have any real, meaningful opinions. In their view, the views most Americans do express are, in effect, merely superficial “wish lists” of things that sound nice or are parroted versions of dimly grasped clichés that provide no guidance for what they actually will support or vote for on Election Day.

thx for the prospect link, love it

It's long but worth reading

Keynesians need some catchy bullshit term like "job creators" imo

keynesian ideas will always have trouble with broad appeal because on some level they require the belief that our economic system is basically irrational and unstable. it's perhaps the same reason people won't accept the reality of climate change! or evolution. or copernicus.

but it did have broad appeal, at least from what i understand (and according to that article)

keynesian ideas have trouble with broad appeal in part because many of the popular ones, such as tax cuts to stimulate the economy, are not widely recognized or promoted as keynesian

the Business Roundtable and their cronies have been waging a forty year blitzkrieg against Keynes. things like OSHA scared the hell out of them. it's like FDR never existed (except for "conservatives" to say he caused the Depression)

keynesian ideas will always have trouble with broad appeal because on some level they require the belief that our economic system is basically irrational and unstable. it's perhaps the same reason people won't accept the reality of climate change! or evolution. or copernicus.

― ryan, Thursday, January 23, 2014 5:34 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think the subtlety also undermines its appeal. in order to understand keynesian you have to think through like 5 logical steps, i think that's a lot to ask of people and i'm actually not trying to be condescending i've explained it to my mom who is very smart like eight times.

"In university classrooms—and especially the Obama White House—fancy theories of macroeconomics defy basic common sense."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424053111903596904576514552877388610?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond

^when this dipshit is on your side then you know you're losing the argument

afaics, the main difficulty with ordinary people understanding Keynes is that ordinary people instinctively want to find and apply analogies between their familiar environment and any new ideas. Keynesian ideas are important because they identify why millions of apparently rational micro-economic choices lead to nasty macro-economic results. I am pretty sure this disconnect between ordinary experience and Keynes' ideas is the main reason why ordinary people fail to grasp them. It rises to too abstract a plane for their usual mental methods to work; it is too counterintuitive.

The best way to describe it to 'just folks' (I believe) is by strongly emphasizing the nature of vicious cycles and negative feedback and how these take over the economy after a bubble bursts.