ILX Lawyers: Copyright question. Can I copyright this story?

Hey guys, appreciate any time you can spare on this.

I worked with a woman last year in developing some illustrated children's books. What I contributed to it was: I created the storyline, characters, and arc, and most of the scenes for the book (I'm not sure how many of my scenes are in here, this woman has been shady as hell lately).

Now I discover through Facebook that she's going to publish it soon! And profit from it, when she wouldn't even have had a book without me since all her ideas were terrible and completely unworkable. I'm not really a litigious type and was going to just forget about it, except she's taking credit for coming up with my ideas! I'm tired of people stealing my ideas.

Anywho. Is that enough for a copyright claim? I know you can't copyright "ideas" or "concepts", but the magic is in how you construe the words.

TIA

ALWAYS GET IT IN WRITING.

What if you printed them online first? Pre-emptive strike as it were.

Lawyer up. Internet lawyers can't save you now.

you are the the victim of a malicious rumour

fill a bucket with water, and then lean the bucket of water against the wall on the top of a door that she is about to walk through

Didn't work to save my first wife, not gonna work now

develop a storyline, characters, and arc where you get the credit and money

ian + max otm

Yeah, learned my lesson on that one.

Since I don't want to practice law without a license, I suggest you start by seeing if your area has a Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts-type organization. You may be able to get some kind of free representation or at least advice.

www.vlany.org is the ny organization but their site has a list of other ones too I think (they're not actually "chapters" -- they're all independent though some have similar names).

in all seriousness i will practice law w/o an licence - basically every original art work or piece of an artwork you dream up you automatically own the copyright for - if the story is as you say it is you have a claim - so the question is do you have any proof - like emails perhaps - or you might want to just ask the author to share the credit see what happens

ice cr?m otm, look for anything fixed form with a time/datestamp (ie, emails, blog posts, etc.) that may help prove you provided the idea to the author.

asking is also good, esp if you do that in a fixed form, so that if she replies and refuses, she may at least acknowledge that you did contribute.

/not a lawyer

Thanks, Hurting. I'll check that out.

I most certainly have the emails. "Great idea at the meeting! Send it to me in email form", plus correspondence about some of the other elements. My only question is about what copyright law covers, and what "ideas" or "concepts" (not copyrightable) mean in the statute re: stories. I guess I can always look at case law. I also discovered a proposed patent category for storylines, but its existence still seems under consideration.

I doubt the book will make much money since it's so niche, it's more about the principle, maaan. I'll email before doing anything drastic, I just wanted to secure my position with a copyright if it were possible.

not to pry too much, but i'm curious about this lady's terrible and unworkable ideas.

like I always wonder if Rowling had originally made Harry Potter about a football hooligan who was allergic to football, but not soccer.

However I guess I can say a few things and still be cautious -- yes it is possible for a storyline and characters to be copyrightable, although it may depend on how specific/generic your ideas are.

"basically every original art work or piece of an artwork you dream up you automatically own the copyright for"

This is more or less right, although I would clarify that something has to be fixed in a tangible medium to be copyright protected. I would also add that joint authorship situations can get VERY murky when there's nothing in writing.

Like if you have an e-mail or series of e-mails in which you sketch out the description of a character and it's a specific character and not just a common type, that may be enough for protection.

I would clarify that something has to be fixed in a tangible medium to be copyright protected.

― for real molars who ain't got no fillings (Hurting 2), Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is not true because i have copyright over my whole mindspace and its super intangible i just thought you should know

tips they wont teach you in law school

you can only copyright your whole entire mindspace if it's in a mindframe

*THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE*

man, u cant frame my mind be serious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQt58w0pqE0

No law can capture the ~~~mindstream~~~

please I've patented thoughts I haven't even had yet

I will share my best understanding of copyright in this instance, with the proviso that you would need real legal advice before you could rely on what you are told.

I created the storyline, characters, and arc, and most of the scenes for the book

The key here is some kind of documentation for these claims, in writing, including the story line treatment, character descriptions, notes for dialogue, actual written scenes that appear in the book, etc. If she includes any writing that you can reasonably claim to be substantially the same as your documentation, you have enough of a case to scare the publisher with.

The more obvious it is from your documents that:

1) you originated it (being in your handwriting would help a lot), and
2) her work is exactly the same in some parts (verbatim use of stuff you wrote would be a huge no-no) and substantially the same in sum total,

then the stronger your case would be.

The primary problem is establishing that you originated everything you say you did. An element of he/she said will likely hang around all your claims. You have to bring the evidence to back them up. The secondary problem would arise if the publisher dismissed your claims and you had to pay a lawyer to enforce them in court. Lawyers aren't cheap and the outcome is not a slam dunk.

Is the woman self-publishing or is there a publishing house involved?

The usual way of doing this is to wait until the mills have rolled in, and then sue.

Citation: That facebook movie.

Sorry if this has been menitoned so far, but have you spoken to her since you discovered all this? A jaunty "fantastic news on securing publication for our work. So that we're both protected, shall we take advice on how to come up with a short agreement that clarifies our respective contributions and position in terms of income, credit etc".

I'm not a lawyer either, but I am an agent, and I'd be furious if I represented you and felt you were being shut out. Ideally speak to her first and hopefully it can all be done in a friendly and open way (whether you feel friendly or not). If not, you have plenty of evidence to show the publisher that you have a claim on the material and they will be very cautious about getting into a potentially litigious position.

you can copyright the chords and the melody to your story, but not the drums

update please!

Month late, but here's the update.

I talked to person I was working with, and it took a while for her to admit she used my idea. At some point she said, "I know you saw the cover and it looked like your idea..." and I said, "It is my idea! I read the summary, it's what I gave you in an email." Then she finally relented a little, but the whole conversation was difficult. At least she could have just said straight forward, "Yes, I used your idea, and I would be glad to compensate you."

Anyway, since there wasn't a contract or anything, I'll be getting a small payment for it. Hooray! She also said she wants me to work on some more books with her, but at this point I don't think I can trust her.

work on the books, just sign an agreement first?

^^ otm

Yep, work on the books with a) compensation agreed along industry norms, ideallyomn a favoured nations basis with her so she can't screw you over (i.e. you get whatever she gets, or a percentage thereof maybe if your contribution is lesser?) and b) a bonus of some kind for your contribution to the first book.

Unless you really feel your relationship with her is soured, which is totally understandable.

You should be getting more than a small payment for it. An e-mail counts as a written statement, as long as you saved it.

How distressing that people could be so sleazy and dishonest.