the social introduction: a lost art?

maybe you've been in this situation:

the scene: a bar, or at a party, or some social function. you're engaged in conversation with a friend when you're interrupted by a third party: someone you don't know but your friend does.

they greet and chat and as you idle nearby, it quickly becomes apparent that your friend is not going to introduce you this third party, nor is the third party going to introduce himself to you.

how do you react? is this rude, and on whose part? do you try to introduce yourself?

thats outright rude. on both parties.

it is rude, obv. the person who knows both parties needs to introduce them. but since it doesn't happen a lot of the time (and i'm as guilty as anyone) i've taken to just introducing myself at a pause in conversation. this usually results in the common person apologizing for not introducing.

you clear your throat loudly

this sort of thing is far too common in my experience; but i don't know if this is just common to my city, or my peer group, or to my generation, or what.

It's rude but I usually just say to the unknown party, "Hi, my name's Michael. How do you do?'

just last weekend i went to a bar with one of my co-workers to meet a huge group of my friends. Obviously having never met any of my friends I introduced him to each one as they arrived. Sort of taxing but the right thing to do.

this sort of thing is far too common in my experience; but i don't know if this is just common to my city, or my peer group, or to my generation, or what.

― tangelo amour (elmo argonaut), Friday, April 8, 2011 9:54 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nah i feel u this happens a lot

must be that pack of socially crippled ADD cosmonauts you're running with... I hope I've never done this to you!

it is sorta rude, I usually chalk it up to ppl assuming we already know each other. I'll usually just introduce myself with a "hi I'm ed, I don't think we've met?"

xxxpps

Feel like this should be in here.

i don't want to overstate this as a trend or anything but there are dozens of people who i've been in social situations with, but whose acquaintance i've never made, because we've never bothered to introduce ourselves. i've tried to be more assertive with a handshake and a smile but it's not always the easiest thing to do, especially when the other person is giving cues that they don't actually care to meet you (avoiding eye contact, only speaking to their friends, etc).

^^^ well those kinds of people can go fuck themselves.

h8 this

i think a lot of this works on the basis of

YOU AND MUTUAL FRIEND
blah blah blah conversation

EXTERNAL FRIEND
hi there, x! let me tell you a lot of things about things!

MUTUAL FRIEND (THINKS)
oh lord, i can dispatch of this quickly, i will not bother with introductions, this person will go away soon

EXTERNAL FRIEND
blah blah blah my entire life happened to me once

MUTUAL FRIEND (THINKS)
oh, now it is too late for introductions, i guess i just have to ride this out

EXTERNAL FRIEND
blah blah i like dogs, dogs are great

YOU
balls.

ELMO THANK GOD, THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD.

I've had this giant realization in the last few years, that I require introducing to people. I don't like strangers, I don't like MEETING strangers, particularly men, and please PLEASE just introduce us, someone, because I will be like paralytically avoidant otherwise.

it just means they've forgotten the person's name, which makes it incumbent upon you to introduce yourself, thereby allowing the third party to say their name, much to your friend's relief

haha this ^

haha ed you've always been v good with introducing your bandmates & such, this is not something you've ever done to me ime

I have a friend like that, Laurel. She has no talent for breaking the ice at all but once it's broken she's perfectly fine. She used to make me go talk to guys she fancied so I could then introduce her. It cracked me up.

It has to be something to do with the fact that rules & formality actually give you perfect freedom WITHIN the rules; I just like to know that the formalities have been observed before I feel free to act.

waiting for somebdoy to post the appropriate curb youtube clip

I knew Laurel would respond to this thread. Introducing people is Manners 101. One of the worst manifestations is being the person accompanying the person everyone wants to talk to, but then not being introduced. Just standing there expectantly...then impatiently...then dejectedly.
I think introductions are something that people need to be taught/reminded to do. It's like when people say "I'm really bad with names" -- you're bad with names because you don't try/make an effort to remember people's names.

I'm kind of Miss Manners about this, but that's because I have been the one standing there A LOT during my life, from childhood on.

I don't require the conventions, Laurel, but if you know them and they are observed by all parties, yes, it means you all know what not to do and are free to do whatever is not proscribed and that can be quite helpful.

sometimes I think the 'sizing-you-up' glance from the third party when you ARE introduced is worse than not being introduced at all

It's like when people say "I'm really bad with names" -- you're bad with names because you don't try/make an effort to remember people's names.

Haha sometimes I'm bad with names b/c I really call the person something else in my head and their name is superfluous. Like "Erica's mom," whose name I didn't remember for almost two years and finally had to recruit SOMEONE ELSE to go introduce themselves and then come back and tell me!

It's definitely rude when this happens. I make the necessary introductions when I'm "the friend" in this situation b/c it's the right thing to do but also b/c it gives me an easier out if the other two want to chat & I want to bail that convo.

dayo they're gonna size you up anyway imo -- might as well know who you are and that you have a name while they do it

fwiw e3 this thread was prompted by an excursion last night to the E&0 (ilxors might call it a 'hipster bar' fwiw) -- maybe it's just because living in a small city in the northeast lends itself to weird provincial cliques? or pvd hipsters are just awkward and unfriendly? but imo this particular bar is a prime site of social gracelessness.

Like Elmo, due to Denver having a relatively small social scene, there are folks I've been in the same room with, partied with, cabbed with, who seem to forget me everytime I see them. There's a lot of re-introducing. Then I have some friends who NEVER introduce me to people, but usually it's because they've forgotten the person's name. As a result, I ALWAYS introduce people to others. It's a huge pet peeve of mine. It seems these days everyone's socially awkward and has no manners. /old lady

is the over-arching theme that hipsters have bad manners?

What are we, some kinda crazy BACKLASH? The ones who came before us, the ones who broke free of the mold, they were HAPPY not to make introductions, they believed they could talk to WHOEVER THEY WANTED! And here we are, throwing it all away for a return to social convention.

Tea, anyone?

think somebody said it but yeah...sometimes i don't introduce people cos i don't like the third party...

Ugh, if people I'm with don't introduce me to third parties who come up and engage them, at least if it's for more than like 10 seconds, I just stare at them until they introduce me. If they still fail to do so, I have no problem saying "WTF is wrong with you?" after the other person leaves.

It's really rude. Idea: wait for a pause and say "I'm unvisible!" in a Ralph Wiggum voice.

I hate this, it sends me into a little spiral of "I guess I am not cool enough to be introduced to this person, agh, I had better not introduce myself like the over-eager dork that I am or I'll just confirm my uncoolness to everyone"

then again that is pretty much my default mode of thinking, so

(though if my other half is the acquaintance in common, then I will just know that he either doesn't know their name or thinks I've already met them, and staging a whispering match of "you know this guy!" "I have totally never met this person" "you must know this person!" for the next five minutes is NAGL, so)

omg thomp

I think that social proximics are just as difficult as introductions. For instance, when two good friends are trying to have a (standing) conversation with a third party, it is often very difficult for the friends to configure themselves so that the third party does not feel excluded, or forced into the spotlight. Things grow more complicated when all of the parties are mutually friendly but to varying degrees. A and B are great friends, and A and C are great friends, but B and C don't know each other very well although they /think/ they may like each other. I think the highly-structured seating arrangements of Victorian dinner parties were a kind solution to this dilemma; I'd be happy if they came back.

I don't need bugles and curtsies when I walk into a room, but a simple, "This person standing here exists and has a name" would be nice. I still shake people's hands when I meet them. In fact, this is so important to me that I have my speech students do an introduction (of another student) as their first (ungraded) exercise in public speaking.

I think working in the business world has made me overly aware of this. I mean, at work we introduce each other right and left. All the time I go to a meeting and there's several people I haven't met, and we have to do the handshake game. It's odd if you don't. So then when I go out to bars and everyone avoids each other, it's really strange to me.

think somebody said it but yeah...sometimes i don't introduce people cos i don't like the third party...

― Will.Have.Known (Local Garda), Friday, April 8, 2011 10:25 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

haha yeah, if the third party is a douche then there's the potential that you are a douche by association

I have a friend that I constantly seem to be meeting people through, at his business or at parties he throws, etc. and he's kind of absent-minded and always seems to give unnecessary introductions between people who've already met or not bothering to introduce complete strangers to each other. Like I said, I think it's more absent-mindedness than rudeness but it's kind of funny yet frustrating -- a lot of times it becomes the ice-breaker between myself and whoever I'm meeting that we kind of awkwardly wait for him to make the introduction, roll our eyes as it becomes it's clear he's not going to, and then laugh about it and introduce ourselves.

So then when I go out to bars and everyone avoids each other, it's really strange to me.

introducing someone takes a certain mentality of "now i am taking charge of this moment" and i think some people just aren't confident enough to do this

i also think some people are just real juvenile and think introductions are like something their parents might do

sometimes i don't introduce people cos i don't like the third party...

there's a way to introduce someone that gets the formality over with but sends enough subtle signals to your mate not to get in too deep with this person

I still shake people's hands when I meet them.

ME TOO! Mostly this goes over perfectly well, but once in a while someone is like really SHOCKED? Idgi. Also I have a v firm grip and sometimes the most surprising people will give you a cold, fishy, limp hand to shake and I can cross them right off my mental list, so that's fine.

Hell, I still shake my dad's hand whenever I see him.

but do you introduce yourself

i shake the hand of all my 6th graders every morning – i am convinced it makes a huge difference to the way they enter the room. but after i'm done shaking, i purell the shit out of my hands.

oh man, what do your 6th graders do before class

cover their hands in shit apparently

I have had people who were like, bike punks or something really "off the grid" (lol) be surprised that I would shake people's hands on meeting. I guess their group ethic was based on being in opposition to the grown-up working world of The Man or uh something. They were cool women but I would sometimes run up against stuff where I felt they thought I was just really, really square.

Ha, I always shake my students' hands after discussing midterm grades -- lots of bad handshakes, but a few surprisingly good ones. I think it shows an agreement, and in my case, it's an agreement that we will both do our work to the best of our ability. Maybe hipsters don't want to commit to that.

I think the highly-structured seating arrangements of Victorian dinner parties were a kind solution to this dilemma; I'd be happy if they came back.

My gf has table arrangements like this for dinner parties where there are enough ppl who don't know each other and are mtg for the first time and she does this based on the likely affinity any two parties may have for each other. She and I never sit together at dinner parties so we can cover the table better as hosts, pouring wine, etc..., and making sure no-one is left out of the conversation or made to feel unimportant.

like, i've been invited to people's houses who i don't know and there have been times where they didn't introduce themselves to me - which would have made one or both of my grandmothers faint - and i will just say, hi, i'm scott, etc.

like haven't they observed other people shaking hands? Didn't their parents teach them this?

i mean, it is a teacher's job to like, do that introduction, in my opinion, even if it's awkward. life is awkward a lot - might as well get it out in the open!

I would think the teacher would do an introduction just to confirm that you are in fact the parent of the child under their care

lol ^^^^

Have you ever tried to grasp anything when your first wake up? You have weak infant hands for a few minutes.

<3 Totally. I always thought this was just me, if I even thought about it at all.

I must try this tomorrow morning.

well, its a good school, but very laid back about certain things. and i get shy in those places. and feel uncomfortable. nobody really introduces themselves there. they are all very comfortable in their utopian dream school. which is cool. really, it is. but i do feel like an interloper sometimes.

and about the hand-shaking thing, i've definitely gotten strange reactions from women when i go to shake their hand. that look of surprise! i figure they must have seen movies or something where people did this.

Is it like Maggie G in that movie where she makes them leave the stroller on the porch?

The utopian school, I mean.

well, its a good school, but very laid back about certain things. and i get shy in those places. and feel uncomfortable. nobody really introduces themselves there. they are all very comfortable in their utopian dream school. which is cool. really, it is. but i do feel like an interloper sometimes.

use that to your advantage and just start taking stuff; when someone confronts you, say "oh, I'm sorry, I figured that since you didn't introduce yourself I was invisible and I got a little carried away"

i don't have any problem grasping things with my hands when i first wake up; grasping things with my brain is a different story

I get weak handshakes ALL THE TIME from students -- it has been explained to me in a number of ways, the most convincing of which is: Strong handshake = sign of aggression. Limp = peaceful. It's also a culturally USian thing to equate strong handshake with some sort of moral strength (or lack thereof) ime. Lots of VERY strong (in attitude and general fortitude) people have given me VERY weak handshakes.

sometimes when confronted with a weak handshake I imagine shouting "YOU DISHONOR ME" and smashing the offender's hand with a mallet

(I spend way too much subconscious energy on making myself laugh, I think)

That is the correct American way to assess a situation and handle things.

Strong handshake = sign of aggression. Limp = peaceful. It's also a culturally USian thing to equate strong handshake with some sort of moral strength (or lack thereof) ime.

Would never have occurred to me. Will think about.

I am clearly avoiding shaking Asian hands in some kind of appalling racist way.

yeah, but i don't see handshakes as being that binary. The limp shakes that bug me are like the person is putting next to no effort into shaking your hand. Someone can have a light grip but still put a satisfactory amount of effort into the handshake.

YES, it's the ones who just hold their fingers out and you have to shake them yourself. Not trying to win any contests of strength here, but shaking hands is not a one-person thing.

they don't really want to do it! i think that's the thing.

If confronted with static finders, you should just place your own set next to them and see who cracks first.

they have this Madge-you're-soaking-in-it-Palmolive hand position!

finders = fingers

exactly what I was thinking, Alba

If confronted with static finders, you should just place your own set next to them and see who cracks first

or just use your index finger to tickle their palm for a while

"... we were married 6 weeks later"

In handshaking nations, limp handshakes are passive-aggressive.

the palm-tickle is one of the best ways ever to freak someone out btw

especially if you look directly in their eyes while you do it

And raise your eyebroaws a little.

i suppose you could also ask them if that's the way they give handjobs.

then lower your eyes twice suggestively to reveal that your penis is out

what if you're a woman?

works best if you are female

xp: damn

u crazy bastards women don't shake hands!

that kids in the hall sketch with kevin mcdonald as mr. stevenson has left me forever equating handshakes/exchanging business cards to dogs sniffing butts. "what's so funny about my card?" "nothing..chortle"

It's a tough thing to calibrate grip to match your opponent -- It's like playing chess against a kid -- you don't want to play at full strength or you'll crush his spirit! but sometimes that kid is a secret grandmaster! What's the worst is when this kid is the one hiring you.

i feel like fist bumps and high-fives, despite their inherent violence, are less fraught with peril (and probably more hygenic?)

in black metal if you survive knife attack or immolation you have been "greeted"

so the whole varg thing was really a housewarming party?

woulda been if Euronymous hadn't died like a bitch

I'm here to report that "vigorous handshaking practice" is not part of the ESL curriculum in most institutions.

when I great people I just punch them in the stomach and rip out a chunk of hair

I'm partial to grabbing someone's hand and head-butting them

when I great people I just punch them in the stomach and rip out a chunk of hair

― BIG YNGWIE aka the malmsteendriver (Neanderthal)

ahahahahahahha

I'm partial to grabbing someone's hand and head-butting them

― Concatenated without abruption (Michael White), Thursday, May 5, 2011 6:24 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark

OMFG WESLEY WILLIS IS ALIVE!

btw i like a strong handshake as much as -- maybe more! -- than the next person. i just want to stand up for the character of the weak handshakers because they're good people too even if they can seem like slimy weasels to those who value a strong/assertive grip.

I thought it was the firm handshake that was the mark of the weasel? back-slapping used-car salesmen patent medicine hucksters, pumping your hands and calling you friend and so forth. the weak handshake was for glassy-eyed laudanum addicts.

I've been told I have a "pussy-assed handshake"