broadband: i'm confused

toby if you use nildram (cf www.nildram.net) then part of yr monthly fee to them (=£23.95+VAT) goes to THEIR hire of the BT line from BT. So the cost is almost exactly the same (I had to get an external modem also and a line- filter, so it was a bit more expensive in other unrelated ways.)

you'd better read the small print tho

Toby check out Isp review for all the gen on broadband etc.

I'm with Pipex which works out at £23.44 a month inc vat but then I have to pay line rental on top of that. The adsl modem was 'free' as part of a promo but the line filters were £10 a pop.

Also if you intend using any p2p programs avoid BT openworld as they are barring users who use them.

mark: i had a good scout round that site, but i couldn't find anything matching what you're saying; looks like £24 + £10 = £34 to me.

how much do the adsl modems cost?

(also using p2p programs pretty much = the point, so thanx for the bt advice)

"Also if you intend using any p2p programs avoid BT openworld as they are barring users who use them"

p2p?

If p2p = Napster and variants then I have to say that BT must be toying with us as we've had broadband for more than a month and been downloading stuff willy-nilly and had no problems with BT whatsoever.

haha yes i think yr right toby, sorry

s'ok mark. how much was the modem etc?

BT story here

Heh, perhaps the 12 foot lizards at BT are waiting to spring their trap on me...

£120: hermstedt web-something (sorry i'm at work)

That BT story - does it mean they keep a log of everywhere you visit on the internet ever or somehting?

I am getting close to going the broadband way but am also confused.

First, I'm on a mac so I need one that will not treat me like a weirdo.

Second, some people on the MacWorld forum insist it's better to get an ethernet modem rather than a USB one. Is this good advice? Are ethernet modems the same as routers? They seem to be more expensive than USB modems. The advantage seems to be that they don't need any drivers, so are intrinsically Mac compatible. But if I make sure I get a USB modem with OS X support then is there any point, given that I'm not looking to share my connection between computers or anything?

I am currently with v21 unlimited dialup, who are very cheap (£10 a month for dialup or £20 for ADSL) but aren't amazingly reliable.

Looking around, zen (recommended by Ed) do seem to get good reviews, but are quite expensive (not as much as BT, I know). NDO get good write ups (inc. one from a Mac user) at ispreview.co.uk. Nildram and Eclipse also seem to be quite well thought of.

Any ideas, esp. about the ethernet/USB issue?

nildram has been great for me: i've got a hermstedt usb modem

Some techy stuff for N. that I *hope* is helpful:

The difference between Ethernet and USB can't really be picked out by your everyday, average computer user. Ethernet and USB are really just types of cards that you install in your computer (they do require different software-type things, yes, but they pretty much work similarly). With both, you'll end up with a thing in the back of your computer that looks similar to that dialup plug thing you would plug in your phone line to, but you just don't. You plug in a special wire that looks like a telephone wire thingy but isn't (plus it's thicker), that leads up to your cable or DSL modem. A router is something completely different from all of this. A router allows two or more computers to share the same high-speed Internet connection with little to no effect on the quality of the connection. Ummm... is this making any sense to you?

Oh yes, and I've got an Ethernet network card in my computer that I installed when I was first going to get broadband. I got it instead of USB because I only had Windows 95 and if you have anything older than Windows 98 you have to get the Ethernet card, but now that I have Windows 98 I *could* get USB if I wanted to. (I have no complaints at all about my connection, so I don't want to.)

Thanks Dee. The more I look the more people I find warning about the instability of USB modems (on Macs, at least), though.

Have kind of narrowed it down to eclipse, plusnet or nildram now.

I need to disagree strongly with dee on her post. Ethernet and usb are very very different, one is a networking standard the other is a peripheral interconnect standard, but let's not go into that.

For the purposes of ADSL Ethernet is preferable because the internet connection is independent of the computer, it's all set up on your router. It's genuinely connected all the time. My router has been up and connected for over 6 months.

With usb you are dependent on software in the computer to make the connection every time you turn on your computer (or wake it from sleep). Most of the usb ADSL modems have had poor mac support.

I'd go with an ethernet router, not least because if you get another internet connected device, or you have a flat mate with a computer, you can share the connection in a much more trivial way.

On your isp choice, zen are very good but they do leave you on your own as regards set up unless you choose one of their (very expensive) router's or modems. Plusnet come highly recommended, not least because some friends of mine do tech support there.

Strangely, my only fear about Plusnet is that their service is too good for the price and I'm worried it will have to change or they'll go out of business.

Ed - does your internet connection come straight back after waking from sleep or does it take 30 secs or so?

straight away, the connection is there regardless of the computer being there, suzy and gareth use there computers with it, and occasional wandering one eyed men.

Plusnet have been going for some time now (5-6 years) they don't appear to be as reliable as zen but they still seem to be pretty reliable. The main reason I went with zen was a free pool of static ip addresses, which if you don't know what they are you possible shouldn't be concerned about.

Plusnet assign static IP addresses too, though perhaps that's not what you meant.

The only reason I asked about the wake from sleep problem is that I've seen the odd person having problems on the boards I have searched. See here for example - this was with a single port ethernet modem that seems to have been well reviewed (the X-modem) and is nice and cheap and apparently a cinch to configure. After his initial USB-alike problem of not losing the connection entirely after sleep, he managed to get it working but had to settle for a 30 sec delay. Which isn't so bad I guess. I was just wondering if it was common.

I may just stick with the router/ethernet modem that the ISP sells though, even if it's more expensive. I have a fear of something not working and then them saying "well we don't support that product - contact the manufacturer".

not losing = losing

avoid usb, it appears just to cause problems like this.

zen's cheapest ethernet modem/router is £75 which isn't bad. Plusnet's ADSL netstart is their best option with a similarly priced modem/router.

X-modem isn't USB.

The router ('for experienced users') that plusnet offers costs £146 with the monthly package that I want. I could get an X-Modem for about £70. (I really don't need networking capability and if I ever do then ADSL will probably be old technology by then)

Maybe I'll email one of your plusnet and check that they are OK with supporting the X-Modem or similar budget device.

Ah - the £146 includes the £58 activation fee I'd have to pay anyway so that makes it £88, which isn't so bad.

Anyway, thanks for the help. You have eased my mind about plusnet.

hmm, it said £59.57 on their site. I paid about that for my dabsvalue router from dabs.com. £146 seems far too much to pay. There are far too many cheape modem/routers out there to settle for one that has a known issue.

x-post, I'm guessing that £59.57 + VAT = £88

Dabsvalue routers, (what I have), are £45 (one port) and £50.50 (4 port) inc VAT and delivery.

And they're easy to set up, yeah (web interface?)?

reasonably, it's got a web interface and its pretty obvious which setting goes where.

One man's obvious is another man's baffling..

Be prepared for me to scream if I can't figure it out.

by all means

ed are you still up 4 2moro? if so what time?

yes, flu permitting, later on I think, I'll call in the morning.

N, you need one of these.

Oh yeah Ed - I knew about that. 99p though! Might splash out on a slightly more expensive one just in case it makes a difference to line noise. adslnation do a hi-quality one for £9 that people seem to like.

I have no problems at all with my 99 pence one.

It's just that our line here is quite noisy anyway so I don't want to aggravate the problem.

fair enough but they do seem to be much of a muchness. i'd risk the 99p one and if that doesn't work for you get the tenner one.

Yeah maybe. I'm actually quite worried about BT testing our line and saying we can't have ADSL after all. We're in the geographical area but our line sporadically gets noisy and loses the dial tone altogether.

BT broke my internet this morning with a noisy line. Zen organised its repair. They did originally suggest it was a broken micro filter, but this appears not to be the case. The support guy did say that micro filters are all almost identical, weather you spend 99p or £11.99 as I just did on a replacement one when that was unnecessary. he did recommend a phone line surge protector to protect them as they are apparently easily fried.

N. do 151 and tell them to fix your line.

Oh, we always are.

OK, my broadband needs - I know v. little about the technicalities of this despite my job title. Can anyone recommend anything?

- a package which will include a decent wodge of webspace
- one which will not be tied to a single computer i.e. I am buying a new laptop next spring (hopefully) and will want to connect on that
- one which I can get up and running within the next 3 weeks, my current ISP package expires in mid-December and I don't want too much downtime for Freaky Trigger.

Any ideas?

Tom's job title, for those that don't know, is Editor, What Broadband? magazine.

I should be getting Nildram switched on early next week, Tom. I'll let you know how my initial experiences go.

How long did it take you to get it switched on and how much webspace do you get?

i assume Tooting is an NTL cable area

i may look into nildram...otherwise i need to get this blueyonder sharing via router and hella cable sorted

Tom I would offer webspace but I fear this will make me look like a Bill Gates type (having recently annexed gabba an' all)

Do you have a BT line already? It takes 10 days, and the details of what I'm getting (along with the various other options) are here.

Actually doing webspace separate from broadband might be a good idea anyway since while I think we're fairly secure in our current flat you never know with rented accomodation.

Oh that does look good Mark. Hmm.

OK, I think I'm finally going to do this. Still haven't decided on ISP, but am definitely going to get a connection only deal and but my own router/modem.

Am very tempted by wireless Netgear DG834G Router/Modem. Anyone have any experience with it?

I think the Airport card just plugs in somewhere in my eMac's CD bay. Are there cheaper alternatives to Apple's own one. Airport Extreme is for the next generation of wireless standard, right? I don't think my mac is enabled for that.

Netgear are good generally, right?

I love airport, lots, and would recommend wireless (you actually need it though, right? I seem to remember you explaining something to me and me twittering about them adapting wireless technology for phones, cordless phones would be a great idea!) to anyone. I don't know anything about alternatives to apple's own brand tho, sorry.

My 'problem' is that the only phone point is in the kitchen, and BT want to charge £104 on the other side of the wall (ie. my bedroom). Rather than have the extension cord trail through the flat (as at present), wireless seems a good option, esp. now that their are much cheaper alternatives to the Apple Basestation that also include an intergrated router.

And if I did just stick with the extension cord, I think it would mean that our (cordless) phone's cradle would have to then go in my room, because I don't think you can have a regular 2 way splitter with a both a phone and an ADSL splitter plugging into it, without one or other of the phone line or the ADSL connection being buggered up. I might be wrong about that though. So yeah - I think your drunken idea was to have a cordless phone that operated via an ADSL wireless basestation, and I said I didn't know if that was possible and even if it were, whether there would be much of a market for it outside of me and my peculiar domestic setup.

cordless phones!

'charge £104 on the other side of the wall' should read 'charge £104 to install another socket on the other side of the wall'

N., it's very easy to install a socket yourself - you just need to buy a socket and cable (and some of those hook nails to attach wirtes to walls) from a DIY store. They'll come with instructions on how to install - it basically involves attaching three little wires to terminals - and it costs a fraction of £104.

That's what I was wondering - thanks. But we can't really just trail it round with tacks as we don't have that kind of skirting board and then it would have to go under my sliding door. I realise this is a cosmetic issue, not a technical one. So it would involve actually drilling a hole through the wall and there's tiling and stuff to confuse matters. I guess the BT guy would make a mess of it too. So I am kind of settling on the wireless plan.

I'm using plusnet, on a mac, with an airport base station,d-link router and a card in both the laptop and the G4. It was surprisigly easy to set up. I recommend the d-link router, I don't know if they're all this simple but I ahd just 3 numbers to type in and then I was connected. Pretty sure the Imac won't take an airport card tho'. You should be able to plug a splitter into the 'phone' half of a microfilter and use your cordless phone.

yes, I can do that. I didn't expect anyone to follow my tedious problem. I was just seeing if I could write it all out. Wireless solves it anyway. Never mind.

Pretty sure the Imac won't take an airport card tho'.

Huh? You mean my eMac? I'm pretty sure it will.

Sorry..misread your set-up...good luck

Ta. This thread is like a document of my inertia.

Inertia over! I'm so sorting my life out at the moment and I now have wireless broadband, speedy and good. I went with cheapo Belkin ADSL modem/wireless router and plusnet 512K. And it all works just dandy. I'm so belatedly brilliant. I really don't need a 1 or 2MB connection at the moment.