I got the fear! Paranoia and weed (and other drugs)

definitely betraying my biases here but my experience with ppl who get paranoid weed is that they haven't smoked enough and in the right setting, w/ the right ppl, after a few times, i've never met someone for whom it didn't start being enjoyable. oh, but look, this thread is now totally derailed. happy to continue conversation in other thread tho...

― Mordy, Monday, May 30, 2011 5:16 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I smoked, not so regularly or frequently but enough, for many years before paranoia issues made me give it up. Could have been exacerbated by a major bummer episode on mushrooms. Other drugs I have had no fun with: acid, e. Bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy thing going on here almost certainly, but I just don't think I have the best personality for drugs. I would like to see if I could make friends with weed again sometime.

i have "a friend" that will probably post here later this afternoon.

I wonder if we could delist this thread from google? I have some things I want to say but... ya know.

we are flying under the radar

I have had experiences with a number of ppl who told me that weed makes them paranoid. I would get them high quality weed, create a safe setting (generally my living room, comfortable seating, some nice music) and they'd have a great experience with it. I also know a few ppl who had really bad experiences with weed, kept on smoking it, and eventually it clicked for them and they began to enjoy it. Obviously you have to be pretty committed to keep smoking even if you don't enjoy it, just for the hope that it'll eventually work for you. I've never actually smoked with someone tho who had a terrible experience in that moment.

Another thing I've noticed is that if something is really troubling you, it'll sometimes come up big while you're stoned. Like a year ago when I was looking for employment I'd get really depressed whenever I smoked alone. That was a good heads-up that a) maybe I should cut down on the smoking until I find a job or at least b) shouldn't smoke alone. Of course I use it medicinally too (to treat Crohn's Disease) and so I think that has greatly changed the context within which I smoke it. I think at least some of the anxiety around weed is about the legality of it, or the cultural stigma, etc. When I use it to treat myself tho, I find that that stuff goes away. I don't feel guilty about making sure my body is functioning healthily.

YMMV in a big way for all of this and if someone legitimately cannot get stoned in a positive way then I really feel bad for them. It's such a wonderful thing.

Yeah familiar people, decent music would definitely be the way I'd try to get back into it. Also no pressure to converse or er even look at people too much, I used to get something not too far from this:

http://mindhacks.com/2010/12/11/fear-of-ones-own-glance/

I have thoroughly enjoyed all my drukqs experiences (probably fewer than 20 all told, weed + psychedelics), but with my younger brother being in nonstop trouble with the law for 30+ years now, I made a decision early on not to indulge myself locally, so pretty much all those fun highs were wrapped around the enjoyable circumstances of, say, being on vacation, meeting up with friends, etc.

I'd probably get stoned lots, but the paranoia part for me is not trusting any local source. I imagine every weed outlet within 100 miles is an undercover cop just waiting to say "oh, you're that guy's brother. Been waiting for you."

i don't feel so much like the cops or some temporal authority figures are gonna bust down my door but more just like these cosmic therealls are like "dell, it's so good to see you again. why haven't you been responding to our emails?" which is probably great if you live in a culture that is embedded in some framework that allows for that sort of thing, but for me it's like i just feel paralyzed and don't understand how other people can possibly take that drug in every day and still function

I don't totally understand what you're describing re "cosmic therealls," but if you mean having some sense of like the sublime -- that's actually one of the things most important to me about weed. Things start feeling more beautiful.

like mordy says, the weed + paranoia combo is often situational, whether that situation is internal or environmental. i used to get Heavy Thoughts ― not "paranoia" exactly, but an obsessive black hole focus on my own terrible failures as a human being and the wretched ends to which they doomed me. i would realize that i was pathetic, false and basically crazy, and then just wallow there. no fun. which should have kept me of the weed, you'd think, but no. in time i found that these evil insights (all the more evil for being basically sound) were the product only of smoking for the first time in a long time. the more i made pot a regular or even an occasional part of my life, the better the experience. cushioning weed with alcohol helps, too.

have (rarely) had similar problems on acid and mushrooms, but have had plenty of good times, too. and good e is always great. i the long run, i've decided that i'm not really an ideal drugs type person.

a friend of mine gets terrible, ripping panic attacks on weed, but only sometimes. roll of the dice, i guess. doesn't seem to curtail his indulgence.

xpost to mord
well, tbf i have a lot of issues in relation to guilt, so i think also i feel uncomfortable being presented with a world that is so embarrassingly sensual

like, these chips and salsa are so amazing, i can't help but wonder how many people had to die horrible deaths in order for this experience to take place

not that i have issues or anything...

I also have a friend or two who will occasionally get paranoid. Not only does that not stop them, tho, I've noticed they kinda dig the paranoid experience. They at least do a lot of laughing about it. (I wouldn't want to get paranoid myself.)

I always wondered, if it had zero reputation for making ppl paranoid –– if this idea did not exist in our culture at all –– would fewer people experience paranoia as an effect?

I feel like the first time or so you get high someone has to explain the effects for you to understand it anyway. Like to a partial extent the state of being high is a learned behavior.

I think that's for sure true and accounts, I believe, for first-time smokers not believing they actually got stoned. I see that a lot. Sometimes it's really silly where it's clear to everyone but them that they're stoned.

I think this is in part because being high is not that different from regular reality. If you have a proclivity to whatever thoughts/behaviors you think of as 'paranoia' when you are not high then I think it is no small wonder you experience them when high. Set & setting blah blah blah.

There are times I was stoned & thought 'shit I am getting the phear' as the title suggests ººº but in reality I am largely an introvert. In reality, my tastes in music & aesthetics are fairly narrow. So idk that it was 'this weed is making me paranoid' but 'I'm in an uncomfortable situation and also high and also doing something illegal.' I think the fact that it is fucking illegal is a big factor.

cool idea (abbbottt's), but i dunno. i'm sure conditioning/expectation plays a role, but it's not like anyone told me i would spend a lot of time gazing forlornly upon my human failings while hi...

Do you only do that when you are high tho?? Like that is basically my mental MO most of the time so I don't feel I have a point of comparison.

I know it can't be a total self-fulfilling prophecy. But the only thing drugs have to work with is whatever material is already chillaxing in your brain.

I think it should be pointed out that there's a difference between anxiety and real paranoia. To me, anxiety is like when you're thinking "oh shit they're going to know that I'm stoned. oh god, I must be making a fool of myself, I can't be around these people, I need to go hide" etc. Paranoia is like "oh thanks for the glass of water (oh wait, should I actually drink it, what if this guy is trying to dose me with acid? I saw him whispering and laughing to that other person earlier)" or worse that I probably shouldn't go into.

But yeah, not smoking for a long time, then smoking way too much in an unfamiliar social situation is a good recipe for anxiety. I also think that there's a possibility that Sativa can be more anxiety-inducing than indicas, or that there's a relation between anxiety and the balance between THC and CBD, or CBN or whatever.

i smoked very frequently for a few years and enjoyed it for the most part, but then i just kind of got tired of it and stopped. i think i realized that while i didn't really experience out-right paranoia, i didn't like this sort of tunnel vision that i got while high. i felt like too often i'd get on a self-involved, recursive train of thought and find it difficult to interact with other people. i do miss how much it enhanced music and visual art, though, and just looking at things in general. i always loved driving around at night and listening to music while high.

Where does a tree spelling out evil messages with its leaves fall on this anxiety-paranoia continuum?

The question I'm more interested in is how often do you think ppl claim to have had bad experiences with weed or to be a paranoid smoker mainly bc they want a socially-safe way of begging off using it? Like, they haven't really given it a chance and don't want to just say, "no thanks."

I'd take their word for it. I don't think they'd be claiming that as a false excuse. That paranoid shit def happens and has made me take long breaks to reset my psyche. I'd say its unfortunate that a bad experience totally turns them off it, but I respect that. I'd suggest to them to consider where a setting where they normally prefer to be alone for deep thoughts and such then try smoking there. Smoking in social situations can really complicate the experience.

Do you only do that when you are high tho?? Like that is basically my mental MO most of the time so I don't feel I have a point of comparison.

...I know it can't be a total self-fulfilling prophecy. But the only thing drugs have to work with is whatever material is already chillaxing in your brain.

― free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Monday, May 30, 2011 11:52 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

oh yeah, totally. i do obsess over the same lame stuff when straight, but in a more measured, effectively-denial-blocked manner. when high, the sheltering walls of denial can collapse, and i suddenly see my situation with terrifying, undeniable clarity. so it's an amping up of what's already there coupled with a debilitating infusion of unwanted insight. fuck that.

a lot of my friends smoke constantly, probab the bulk of my musical heroes do too, but it's not the drug for me. would have to be high to explain why that's so . but sometimes i'm truly like fuck, would be so much better to just get stoned all the time instead of drinking too much beer once a week or so. o dunno

I'd probably get stoned lots, but the paranoia part for me is not trusting any local source.

Come to Chicago!

I'd love to! I've been thinking about a roadtrip.

18-21ish -> crazy reaction to marijuana (crazy psychotic panic attack) -> crazy psychotic panic attack reaction to lsd, psilo -> paxil, got fat. 21-24 -> really really good positive experience w ketamine of all things (and amt, 2cb) -> smoked blonde blonde kif in xinjiang + crystally amazing kush back in vancouver and it was aight: i could still get trapped in fucked up panicky vibes but i felt mentally strong enough to houdini think myself out of it in seconds and it wasn't an issue. basically, smoking everyday was what let me experience 99% positive 1% negative effects.

now, i really dig the awkward, sort of out of tune or whatever mindstate that used to put me deep into paranoia. -- and, like, the paranoia wasn't, like, "oh no, police is gonna arrest me" but rather "my mind is permanently fucked up and i will never be able to look in the mirror without spiraling into schizophrenic russian doll nested supreme anxiety." and getting high as fuck countless times and returning to normal sort of mellows out the i'm-going-insane fear.

i wanna take research chemicals but without dying or feeling horrible the entire time. where do you begin? 2cb? what is the most gentle shulgin thing ? i need something that will overwhelm me with happy feelings such that i won't be distracted by my heart pounding or my jaw clenching body load issues

probably not dmt, which I read someone describe as though the sofa they were sitting on suddenly underwent rocket engine acceleration. DO NOT WANT.

Some of us could use a little more paranoia, tbh

have you guys ever gotten high w/karl rove? 'cos man

I smoked weed when I was a teenager from about the age of 13 to 17. Never enjoyed it.made me anxious,irritable,and paranoid.only times I nearly enjoyed it is if I got totally comatose on it. Sitting unable to get out my chair and finding everything inordinately funny. I did find that a bit creepy in hindsight because I was really near immobile.

I've done plenty coke,never got any paranoia off it but it's always unsatisfying,you're always chasing the feeling of the first couple rails. Never found the crash too hard,dealt with it by drinking plenty.

Drug for me will always be eccies. Euphoria,energy,empathy followed by feeling of bereavement,heartbreak and guilt,somehow totally worth it.

Tis better to have eccied and come down than never to have eccied at all