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Right then. There are people who imagine that this dating/make over show is just about taking some losers who can't pull and giving them a better haircut and a nice top. This, no doubt, is the view of the the emotionally scarred, or people who've not watched much of it. To be sure, I watched ONE ep of it that was rather banal and fairly described as being along those lines. HOWEVER, many more of the eps go deeper than that: they uncover miniature human tragedies with a redemptive self-discovery element -- a personal non-talking therapy, that would please any hollywood script hack.

What you got, if you looked beyond the surface fripperies, were stories of people unwittingly damaging themselves and persisting in keeping themselves unhappy: with themselves and their life. The story of the middle-aged 22 year old, the woman whose partner was stolen by her flatmate, the married at 20/divorced at 27 swinger... bloody hell. Perhaps it was in the editing, but either way, these stories really touched me.

There is a lot of repetition in the shows which grates -- the flirting tips, the dance lessons, the eye-contact games -- but that I could take, what really annoyed me was the before/after pictures. Although these comparisons are part of the shows make-over format, they weren't (to me) the real story. It was the before/after of their manner: from despondent/sad to giddily happy that hits you. They're giddy because they'd forgotten, or never learned how to be happy.

Perhaps the show's producers only stumbled across the real power of the show late on, and it was too late to throw off the formats cliches, or perhaps (and this is slightly more likely) I was getting something out of the show that wasn't really there.

I thank you. (Another non-thread really, sorry. Perhaps I should start with "Apropos of nothing...")

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:35 (twenty-three years ago)

(Apropos of trying to get a bunch of mentalists to back you in an argument with the Emotionally Scarred?)

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Emma = The Emotionally Scarred?

― RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:44 (twenty-three years ago)

i have not watched this but Aubrey always makes me watch that godawful thing on T4 where they get the girls and the boys in separate houses, and send them out on dates and make a league table of who's the most "dateable" blah blah blah. and i consistently want TO SMASH ALL THEIR FACES IN THE FUCKING BORING SELF OBSESSED VAPID AND GODAMMIT JUST PLAIN UNATTRACTIVE, NO REDEEMING FEATURES NO HOPER BASTARDS. dating programmed should be BANNED.

also this beyotch appears to have disabled my password. maybe it disagrees with me :(

― katie (katie), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Rickyt: of course not. Tom, please delete this thread

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha ha Tom is on holiday your rant supporting the undateable will remain!

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Another wonderful episode. I agree with Alan's analysis. Often it starts and I think 'Oh, I'm not really interested in this person' (as with last night's) and by the end I'm in tears. What better use for television could there be than this extension of human empathy? But yes, the joy of watching it is always darkened by thoughts of how quickly these barriers to happiness can be overcome, yet so rarely are.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, the best way to overcome barriers to happiness is with a stylist, a body language expert, some punchable bloke (what are his qualifications anyway? Isn't he a 'life coach', whatever that means) and a camera crew encouraging you to perform daft TV friendly stunts (this based on the one I remember watching a week or so back with the balding girl who they dressed as Marilyn & made her kiss a rugby player).

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:54 (twenty-three years ago)

It's a good show. I enjoyed it. I am quite the expert on body language now.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Alan's right, although he might have added that it has the joy of having the worst-dressed clothing makeover person on TV.

In Time Out this week they were going on about WLTM having elements of neuro-linguistic porogramming in its makeover bit, and I get scared when people mention NLP.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Neuro-linguistic programming is the Dianetics of the noughties.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:58 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, forgetting the pain, regaining confidence ok; but the price of that was the also the callous obliteration of anything that they were ever comfortable being, "smoothing out" any wrinkles that made them interesting so they became the same desperate harrowed vultures as the 3 make-over artists. I'll never forget the moment when the shy tweedy guy mumbles "wellthiswasyourstupididea" after a doomed and frankly ridiculous confidence stunt and the way the leatherjacket confidence jock guy attacks him with NO DON'T PALM THE BLAME OFF ON ME TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YR FAILURE supposedly as a helpful measure but SO OBVIOUSLY as a LOOK YOU LITTLE LOSER DON'T GET COCKY WITH ME I AM ALPHA MALE. watching the mid-stage realisation of selfconfidence unsurely commingled with awareness of brainwashing was the saddest most frustrating thing i ever saw. until resistance is broken down and the three crones mark him on how much like them he is, drawing sustenance from fresh blood to make them feel young again.

― bob zemko, Thursday, 22 August 2002 08:58 (twenty-three years ago)

re NLP: oo weird, i was thinking that last night. it's true. It's NLP as far as helping the ppl to overcome the association between bad feeling and good situations that they've created and which stops them getting anywhere new.

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sounds like 'cognitive therapy' to me. I know a bit about it, it just sort of tides you over to the next crisis, like patching up a liferaft with a plaster, but it's good if you don't want to talk about how much you hate your parents for £100/hr. Fact is, the world doesn't move slowly enough for people to find out what their real problem is, much less solve it, so it's better than nothing.

― dave q, Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:03 (twenty-three years ago)

there is a good deal of overlap between NLP and cognitive therapy. or so i am given to understand.

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:07 (twenty-three years ago)

It's really good tv (oddly it reminds me of that other thread about Moodysson - humanist feelgood entertainment for Guardian readers {no slight intended}). However, I think this show really DEMANDS follow-up episodes a year later (did they do this kind of thing on that show where corporate bosses experienced life on the shop floor for a week?). Can people really change? For example, it was very uplifting to see that fella last night raving about his date, but what if it doesn't work out? They didn't seem very well matched to me (she seemed too prim for him, but what do I know?). Faced with another failed relationship, without the cameras and coaches, do people revert to their neuroses and coping mechanisms, as to a comfie old cardie, or stride on with their personal development? I'd like to know.

― Jerry the Nipper, Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Jerry is right, it does make good TV but ultimately I'm left thinking 'yeah what happened to them next then?'. 6 weeks of faffing & stunts & mild telly-friendly therapy isn't going to help these people. Come on BBC, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:11 (twenty-three years ago)

i hope so. does prim = face like a horse?

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:14 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah! I think they should have a series like they do with Groundforce, where they pay a surprise visit to the people they madeover.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Though, that could go horribly wrong.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:19 (twenty-three years ago)

if the cameras come in to find them doing a Janine. eating dog food in a pile of your own vomit/CDs

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I found the body language stuff interesting but the problem with this is that its trying to turn us all into the one and same person. There is one way to dress, one way to talk about things. It homogenizes...if you act a certain way then there's only one kind of person you can attract, etc.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean in one of the Groundforce episodes, the couple had got divorced since the makeover...

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:26 (twenty-three years ago)

It'd be great if they got divorced BECAUSE of the garden makeover.

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, apparently she wasn't too happy about the surprise...

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:37 (twenty-three years ago)

but she OK'd the show's transmission???

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, the best way to overcome barriers to happiness is with a stylist, a body language expert, some punchable bloke

Yeah yeah. Are you cynical or am I just naive? Undoubtedly the most important factor for most of the people is the 'punchable bloke'. I don't know - I'm probably overextending from personal experience.

It does seem like what I know of cognitive therapy and hey it works. Would like to see another follow up progamme to see if they go back to old habits.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, that sat for 20 mins with 'mismatched' HTML tags (it was only cause one was lowercase, guv) before I submitted it. Left a bit behind in this conversation.

The last series had a special follow up episode, didn't it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Er, what is your personal experience of a punchable bloke helping you to pull?

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:49 (twenty-three years ago)

He shagged him

― RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha ha. Wouldn't it be great if the WLTM loser, sorry, person having trouble talking to boys/girls hooked up with one of the self-styled experts?

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:53 (twenty-three years ago)

one hooked up with a cameraman in the first series. (or one of the crew anyway. the "experts" are all dogs)

― Alan (Alan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:54 (twenty-three years ago)

(It's not meant to complain about mismatched case, I'll have a look at it, sorry)

― Graham (graham), Thursday, 22 August 2002 09:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Stop making fun of me. btw - on the last series of Streetmate that's exactly what happened. Well, the contestant ended up pairing off with one of the cameramen. Oh no, hang on - maybe it was on Perfect Match, not Streetmate.

Anyway, I've got work too much work to do to participate properly in this thread. I'm off.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 August 2002 10:02 (twenty-three years ago)

haha i live next door to the dad of the cameraman in the first series!! it is all real => nothing on TV is fake folks

blimey and my neighbour on the other side = crazy earl in full metal jacket!! i live in hollywood east apparently!!

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 22 August 2002 10:08 (twenty-three years ago)

The experts are indeed dogs but the victims / contestants / whatever they are are not exactly god's gift now are they?

I liked Perfect Match but have only seen bits of 1 in this series with a girl whose parents wanted her to get married in the next 5 minutes and refused to listen to any form of rational argument against this.

― Emma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 10:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyone seen Elimidate? Now that is a truly dire show.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 22 August 2002 10:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Random thoughts : It's fantastic TV. The *recoveries* are hollow victories - a new jacket and a few flirting skillXOR cannot erase deep-seated problems but might shove them aside effectively enough for the person to grow in confidence, have fun and, well, get laid more. If so, I suppose the 2 old crones and wanker have done a good thing. You can't change people though -can't be done.

I couldn't feel sorry for last night's geezer - despite the obv. pain of his D.I.V.O.R.C.E. his non-stop wisecracking was pitiful, he had a funny walk and no discernable personality. I didn't like him before or after. ALSO, his first date (at the start) was with
a totally K-Horny lovely girl and he didn't even have the wit to tell her she looked great. He didn't even LOOK at her!

Anyway - the final date-woman WAS horsey, yes. But not TOO bad - certainly too good for HIM. Prim - no way. I reckon there was something wild within - certainly too wild for poor old Paul.

The Crones - the dress sense one is vile, but I quite like the other one. She talks good sense and hey, in the right circumstances she could be quite... (Ahem)

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:23 (twenty-three years ago)

saw elimidate for the first (and probably the last) time ever last night. made me feel dirty.

one male, four females (and vice versa). three 'games' (i use the word loosely, one was swimming, one was 'guess what i just drank by kissing me', one was sunscreen rubbing-in), one contestant eliminated at the end of each leaving just the happy couple who then, from what i saw, slag each other off. there was a punch though, and much huffiness / childish digs as the eliminated walks off in a strop.

andy

― koogs, Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyone who goes on Streetmate gets to go home with Davina as a countdown style goody bag.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:45 (twenty-three years ago)

bob zemko = otm

Imagine what it would be like if EVERYONE was an expert in body language - the bizarre doublethink consciousness involved......

― Ray M (rdmanston), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't the point that everyone *is* a sort of half-expert in body language? => They just don't know it. This is one of things I think is great abt TV: it makes secret knowledge public = it confounds the lizards...

I saw from frag of one of these progs late on tue night, some sweet but v.self-conscious and nervous gay guy being taught to cruise cute himbos on oxford street by a woman => the bit that made me larf was where she pointed out that when you glance back having made eye contact you MUST GLANCE AWAY FIRST otherwise it is tacky

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:16 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah as I said the body language stuff is interesting. I like the mirrowing as well. useful...

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:18 (twenty-three years ago)

There - you SEE what happens? (haha)

― Ray M (rdmanston), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:24 (twenty-three years ago)

a few weeks ago a lass i went to school with was on WLTM - i am happy i am now not the biggest sadass i know.

― s.r.w. (s.r.w.), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:03 (twenty-three years ago)

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