"we just wanted to sound like shit / but you thought we were avant garde"

via anal cunt

am interested in examples of this in art/entertainment/culture whatever (ie not just 'sound' as per the lyric) - people who really are just obnoxious assholes but get venerated by some sort of establishment, and talked about in far more highbrow terms

I guess a lot of 'outider music' ticks this box to an extent but it seems that it's harder for something like this to take root in art or theatre or TV?

Dude, AC is a comedy / satire band. They are funny. I'm not even sure they are talking about themselves when they say that.

You know who I think is overrated, Henry Darger. Feel your pain buddy but lots of janitors have something to say and say it prettier.

it's pretty common for someone to press 'record' on people fucking around with music and end up with an actual record people hear and choose to interpret in different ways. it's nigh impossible for something like that to happen with a play or a movie or a TV show.

art on the other hand

I think u s steel needs to read aerosmith's screed on AC in the metal thread. There's quite a bit of evidence that AC was not simply a "comedy" band.

I think that is a fair assessment. Titles like "Kill Women" and "Recycling is Gay" are good satires on idiocy. But come on this isn't high concept satire here, it's still comedy. I don't think they spent days writing those songs. As for movies, the web has created all kinds of opportunities for outsider art, how it has caught on I don't know.

how do you get in wikipedia for being an outsider artist? you have to be pretty well know for the wikinazi's to let you in and then you are not really "outsider" so much as "indie"

By having some sort of profile that was 'widely known'?

MMarchant's page did not last long, as she did not sell any kind of quantity....

Whereas, etc...

they wont even let Jay "Juiceman" Kordich in there!

I could say "Who?", in fact I will...

"it's nigh impossible for something like that to happen with a play or a movie or a TV show.

― t-bomb burnett (some dude), Monday, June 13, 2011 10:15 AM"

the entire history of exploitation cinema belies this.

i mean i doubt some guy who makes a super-shlocky but nonetheless boundary-pushing-in-its-grossness horror movie (not talking about something like hostel or whatever where the director plants a bunch of more "highbrow" justifications/interpretations just below the surface) is going for some sort of avant-garde statement but that hasn't stopped dozens of these guys from being retroactively claimed by film theory nuts.

Mark G - the people who edit wikipedia obsessively - they have often removed thinngs I tried to put in there - THEY WILL FIND AND EAT THEM

I'd be interested in someone explaining the difference between 'avant garde' and 'wanting to sound like shit'

"it's hard not to think of bataille's 'story of the eye' while watching 'chainsawing cheerleaders two: the bloodening'..."

I'm going to start a new wiki for all the crap that they reject

This must be the first time that three Anal Cunt-themed threads are simultaneously active on ILX

I'd be interested in someone explaining the difference between 'avant garde' and 'wanting to sound like shit'

― symbol of the paramount chaos (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 13 June 2011 15:52 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah I'm interested (as in, in a broader sense, not just itt) in how people approach the axis between the two and evaluate which side of the coin things fall

i have a dream

http://hanlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Frogs

"Outsider", I believe, refers to background, training and practice, i.e. self-taught, non-traditional background. Joseph Cornell was an outsider by most criteria and has entire rooms in major museums.

As for Anal Cunt, I think they really mean it. I've listened to them. Some people make a racket just for fun, they don't need to be treated like the zeitgeist. How long before "friend rock" is profiled in the NYT? Avant garde would refer to ambitions, not that it's bad to be avant garde or something. I think people who don't have traditional training might look foolish calling themselves avant garde unless it is a side project of their visual art or something.

the purest definition of the thread title I've thought of so far, more so than AC themselves, is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_%28chimpanzee%29

avant-garde: having a specific philosophical plan to push moral/aesthetic/sociocultural boundaries using the tools of art and refinement when you approach a project.
sound like shit: making a jerk-off quickie gross-out designed to get a cheap emotional rise out of people that critics append avant-garde justifications to after the fact.

really the people that i find most interesting are the ones who seem to flit back and forth between the two like it's no thing. (only one i can think of right now is takashi miike, but there've got to be others.)

garden variety stupid drunk druggie asshole.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_X7kBVvqU_o&hl=en

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOJR1wRuWQM

sound like shit = noise that is fun to play and maybe other people like it too. Because you're not a traditional musician (although you can be - even kids in band swap instruments and experiment with "noise") and want to learn what you can do with your instrument.

Avant Garde is a term that needs to be laid to rest when it comes to pop music. Avant Garde is what I associate with instillation art in museums.

Been reading a Faulkner bio, and to respond to what you were saying, strongo, about artists straddling the line between exploitative trash and avant garde: I think Sanctuary might fit here. While it may not have been the potboiler attempt Faulkner always claimed it was, it def latches on to formulaic elements of detective and noir fiction and use them as tropes in service of a nightmarish vision of corruption pervading American society

Ray Dennis Steckler might fall into this gap as far as movie directors go. He made crap films for exploitation money, but there is something artistic there that has been discussed.

Watching his movies, the brain can substitute a motive of individualistic artistic expression as an excuse for techniques possibly based on incompetence and financial indifference. Jesus Franco knew he was doing it, but I don't think Steckler did.

Both made some early hardcore too. That's another area where some innovators have gotten credit for subversion or innovation based upon an uglier mindset, or better or worse production values than the industry norm.