Al-Muhajiroun's 'Rally for Islam'

The former. They are obviously a rather unpleasant group, but I can't really see a reason to stop them from holding a rally.

*sigh* i reluctantly have to agree with RickyT. i say reluctantly in the same way that i would reluctantly have to agree if it was a BNP rally or something. you can't be a champion of democracy and yet deny these people their say, no matter how odious and wrong-headed it is, otherwise you're just sinking to their level. still, i hope it PISSES down on them and no-one bothers showing up. a part of me would really, *really* like to say "this is awful - ban it", just because it WILL stir up more discord and hatred, and obviously i do'nt want that to happen. but all the same. i hate questions like this.

Denying morons the right to speak increases the chances that they may convincingly claim "they fear us enough that they wish to silence us -- CLEARLY WE SPEAK THE TRUTH." Happens here with the Nazis all the damn time.

rickyt is right i think, stevo. its a question with no nice outcome, some things are just not solveable. removal of platform is counter-productive

but the thing is, colin, that i *do* fear people like that. not because i secretly belive what they have to say and i'm quaking in my boots because i'm an infidel/unbeliever and fear retribution or anything, but simply because they *do* have the power to stir up hatred and discord, and increase the chances of people getting hurt and killed, and it's a cycle that just never seems to stop. there'll always be some other moron who'll listen, and go and perpetuate it. i can't in all honesty say that i *don't* fear any group like that. but i know that banning it is not the answer, and i know that banning it and getting angry and heated would very much be playing into their hands. it's just that the LOGICAL answer of rising above it/fighting it in other ways seems so cool and detached when actual visceral hate crimes are being committed.

I accept there are strong democratic arguments in favour of the right of groups, however loathesome, to hold rallies. Here in the Netherlands courts have regularly upheld the rights of neo-nazis to hold demonstrate against wishes of local councils, police etc.

However in Rotterdam the mayor usually then says "OK then...but only at 8.0 am Saturday morning in an industrial estate in the middle of Euro-Port". Not 1pm to 6pm during the weekend in the heart of the nation's capital. I doubt the BNP would be allowed a similar stunt, and these sort of organisations are as great a danger in stirring up racial hatred.

Katie -- that's what counter-demos are for. I am very much in favor of those.

there's a big anti-nazi league demonstration in Manchester on 1st September if anyone's interested...