Becoming an ethical consumer (on a budget, hopefully).

Ok so I want to learn:

+ How to avoid things made in sweat-shops or their equivilant
+ How to avoid companies that repress their workers i.e. breaking up unions or not paying farmers their fair share etc.
+ If possible - to try and not fall into the trap of 'Because Coca-Cola are evil, i'll drink Pepsi because they only do half the evil shit Coca-Cola do.' I want a non-evil alternative, or nothing at all.
+ Hopefully to buy more local stuff
+ Hopefully to buy more well-made stuff because quite frankly, investing in something that won't break in a couple months time seems like a holy grail these days
+ When I need to upgrade to 'organic', or whether I should know if GM-type scares are actually good or bad etc.

I also don't want to become what the Americans call a douche in the process.

Is this possible?

Anyone with me?

you are already a douchebag for caring

http://www.cholchol.org/pics/ruca.jpg

j/k

its p cheap not to buy stuff

i do my best to do this stuff. easiest first step is the buy local thing tho, which interestingly enough seems to be crossing a lot of unexpected lines, judging from the people that come in here and talk about that being how they ended up here in the first place. initially when i started hearing about it it was mostly younger lefty types, but it seems to be age independent these days, and also crosses most of the political and social boundries.

I'm j/k too obviously

I don't have any easy answers apart from don't drink soda in general.

buying local as much as possible is in general a good idea.

This will become a rolling thread of many discussions regarding ethics as a consumer, hopefully.

But I guess a good place to start is who to avoid and who seem like a decent company we can rep.

I get that Halliburton is a 'thing' but I don't really know who they are or what they are, this is more to say that Nike are an incredibly shitty horrible company. But I presume Adidas and Reebok and whoever also use sweat-shop labour- i know Adidas got caught out at the World Cup last year. In fact pretty much ever trainer/sneaker company I know the name of seem to be involved in this, or have in the past 20 years. So is there an ethical trainer/sneaker company? That provides cool, cheap and well-made trainers?

kinda digging that the hatred for big corporations seems to be a non-partisan issue nowadays, thats progress imo

I get milk delivered from a farm up here in CO. It's a couple bucks more than usual but actually tastes much fucking better, and it's not some thing I deluded myself into believing to justify the cost.

The jugs are re-used. I also compost/recycle but that's about the extent of it.

buying on a budget and avoiding sweatshop purchases is a hard tightrope tho, which is lame but true, at least re:durable goods

i def do not buy organic tho... i'm not going to deprave myself of costco mega-apples for the sake of eco-karma.

fwiw my bf and i attempted this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100-Mile_Diet and it still informs a lot of our food purchases although i like restaurants (and coffee lol) too much to ever fully implement it

clothes and shoes are the area where it seems kind of impossible to buy anything that isn't made in a foreign country under questionable conditions. Levi's are kind of the only exception I can think of (what up Steve Shasta)

Regarding the trainer situation, which I just picked because it is an easy one to point at as leading sweat-shop related cunts, I also wonder about the logo issue. I bought Nikes from before I started paying attention to this, but with the logo-as-advertising issue, should I just throw them away or stop wearing them? Or is it questions like this where it gets douchy?

buying on a budget and avoiding sweatshop purchases is a hard tightrope tho, which is lame but true, at least re:durable goods

― cannonball aderall (jjjusten), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 19:29 (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm kind of hoping to find a middle ground based around 'if it is durable and lasts for ages, that means getting my moneys worth v. having to replace some shitty cheap thing once a year'

localism is never the answer. the answer is to form a a hegemonic force equal to the one in power. destroy, destroy, destroy.

I try not to wear anything with a logo on it because, well logos are fucking ugly and I am not a billboard

xp

Well, fwiw, "throwing away" something you already own isn't being very ethical.

lol throwing away means giving to a charity shop in that sense.

Regarding the trainer situation, which I just picked because it is an easy one to point at as leading sweat-shop related cunts, I also wonder about the logo issue. I bought Nikes from before I started paying attention to this, but with the logo-as-advertising issue, should I just throw them away or stop wearing them? Or is it questions like this where it gets douchy?

buying used trainers from a 'charity shop' is the most ethical choice and you can unstitch the logo if you want. i mean buying unmarked common projects made by union workers is nice, but its still unnecessary consumption and also expensive

"here, you advertise this, I'm morally opposed"

xp

its p cheap not to buy stuff

― the green (Lamp)

"here, you advertise this, I'm morally opposed"

xp

― the boy with the gorn at his side (Edward III), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 19:34 (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

oh shiii

its p cheap not to buy stuff

― the green (Lamp)

great but you know, eventually someone on ilx is gonna want a new laptop or set of shoes or oven or television or something to drink or eat etc.

there is also the issue where there are plenty of contrary forces here, recent example in my industry being the whole Gibson guitars issue where buying an american made gibson seems like it avoids the sweatshop issue, but means that you are supporting a wildly unethical stance on wood harvesting, where buying a chinese made instrument largely tends to support renewable woods because they are fast growing and cheap.

I subsist entirely on moisture re-absorbed through the wall of my bladder fyi

xp

like i don't think going to live in a cave with the one suitcase of clothes i currently own is an option on account of not living near any caves

great but you know, eventually someone on ilx is gonna want a new laptop or set of shoes or oven or television or something to drink or eat etc.

― GOIT BUZZ TOYS (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:37 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

oh, totally, yeah! of course. i'm just echoing lamp because i think not buying anything at all should be the first choice that is considered. then, if you really need something, def consult this thread and other resources! :)

great but you know, eventually someone on ilx is gonna want a new laptop or set of shoes or oven or television or something to drink or eat etc.

reducing your consumption is still the most ethical and efficient way to improve the world. otherwise buy used or, if thats not an option, than local. everything else is mostly window dressing.

part of the root of a lot of this is that to be responsible you pretty much have to increase your spending tolerance - ethical manufacturing costs money, plain and simple.

there is also the issue where there are plenty of contrary forces here, recent example in my industry being the whole Gibson guitars issue where buying an american made gibson seems like it avoids the sweatshop issue, but means that you are supporting a wildly unethical stance on wood harvesting, where buying a chinese made instrument largely tends to support renewable woods because they are fast growing and cheap.

― cannonball aderall (jjjusten), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 19:37 (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

+ If possible - to try and not fall into the trap of 'Because Coca-Cola are evil, i'll drink Pepsi because they only do half the evil shit Coca-Cola do.' I want a non-evil alternative, or nothing at all.

But maybe that doesn't cover it. This is a very important issue though and one that freaks me out a little. Hopefully getting a dialogue going means that we can figure out what is the most-ethical option, or how to figure out what needs to be looked at from an ethics standpoint, idk

but if you buy less, then you open up your budget to spending a bit more on ethical goods.
xpost

ethical manufacturing costs money, plain and simple.

yep. and then if enough people do it, costs start to come down. but it can take awhile. like with solar panels!

xp

not buying stuff otm, it's not very complicated!

part of the reason i feel comfortable doing what i do is that i work in an industry built on sustainable goods,repair and reuse - i sell 30+ year old electronics on a regular basis, thats a pretty rare spot to be in now.

reducing your consumption is still the most ethical and efficient way to improve the world. otherwise buy used or, if thats not an option, than local. everything else is mostly window dressing.

― the green (Lamp), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 19:40 (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i am down with this. but i'd still like to know whats going on, on a larger scale, you know? also w/ stuff like electronics, buying used seems like something i wouldnt want to trust and i dunno if buying local is a real thing with the perception that the parts come from all around the world or whatever?

well wait "electronics" is pretty broad what kind of electronics are we talking about here

local gasoline

off the top of my head the things I think would be the hardest for people to have wiggle room to make decisions would be gas or any medication they need

Well, say I my laptop broek and it couldn't be repaired. Apple have, iirc, been found to use sweat-shop labour, as have laptop makers like Sony etc. etc.

And who the fuck in Britain just makes their own laptops?

(Yes my laptop is dying and I might be thinking about this more in the future.)

gas is easy - buy an electric car. or don't buy a car at all. or the car with the highest gas mileage you can afford.

buying local is sort of a tiered prospect tho, i mean yes you can buy food that is locally produced sure but not a locally built ipod or whatever. now if you could at least purchase the ipod at a local business, that might help, but obv an ipod is a bad example of that.

am thinking I should get into this homemade laptop market

buy a mac but only use it in a sauna for the first three months to make up for the purchase

And who the fuck in Britain just makes their own laptops?

(as in a small company who gets the material and creates/sells the product here. not just puts parts together mined from environmental disaster area.)

steal from old rich people

frankly unless you are looking at something somewhat artisianal in the electronics spectrum, its unlikely that you have the option to buy either from a local builder or a local vendor. and yeah, those transistors are going to be from overseas, but that ship has already sailed.

Justin and people- are there some things you just think 'aw fuck it, i'm not going to find a more ethical source, i'll just buy [x]'?

Armando Iannucci empathises (thinking of the bit at 8.10):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IZvShAjKq0

I don't want to lapse into self-parody here, and like iateeegah! I've already trolled on a lot of these threads. So what I want to say is that, ethically speaking, there's nothing better any of us can do (w/r/t consumer culture) than buying the most socially- and environmentally-conscious products we can reasonably afford; limiting our quantity of purchase; and reusing whenever prudent and possible. "Ethical" purchasing shouldn't be wholly the privilege of the affluent; of those with expendable incomes. CSAs, local retailers, and farm stands are lovely for folks with access and ability, but buying from them when it's disadvantageous (logistically, financially) is just... self-destructive. As with the relative "goodness" of charitable donations – a millionaire donating $10,000 or an unemployed high schooler donating $1 - there's no sliding scale of rectitude or conscionable-ness, and the 'most ethical reasonable purchase' any person can afford should remain a private, personal decision.

in other words, i want my $1.99 pineapple, and fuck any haters who say i have to pay $5 to buy an ethical one or learn to go without. pineapple is delicious.

political activism is a zero sum game tbh you have to pick certain things to focus on.

But more ethical consumption habits are something that can also be picked up by people who would never get involved in political activism. The fact that it's easy is a good thing! And there's not necessarily anything wrong with ethical consumption being a sort of a fad or fashion statement for some people, because that can help spread better consumption habits to people who would never otherwise be open to more radical sacrifices. It's a way to change consumption habits using forces like marketing which govern consumption to begin with. Changes to tax codes and urban planning are important too but they're not something that the average person will become involved with in their day to day life.

xpost to remy

just out of curiosity, how would you react if the price of the pineapple rose to reflect the true costs of producing it, and it ended up costing $5?

what I don't understand is how do you ever get to the point politically when you can overcome Dole's lobbyists and change the laws so that the pineapple's price reflects the true costs and at the same time convince remy to vote for these new higher prices?

_political activism is a zero sum game tbh you have to pick certain things to focus on._

But more ethical consumption habits are something that can also be picked up by people who would never get involved in political activism. The fact that it's easy is a good thing! And there's not necessarily anything wrong with ethical consumption being a sort of a fad or fashion statement for some people, because that can help spread better consumption habits to people who would never otherwise be open to more radical sacrifices. It's a way to change consumption habits using forces like marketing which govern consumption to begin with. Changes to tax codes and urban planning are important too but they're not something that the average person will become involved with in their day to day life.
--the wheelie king (wk)

or when they do - even in the bay area - they tend to take the nimby pov. 'slow growth' cause everyone who doesn't live here doesn't matter.

xp

Z S,

My finances are tight enough that even a $1.99 pineapple is a rationed luxury in the way taht a $5 pineapple might be for somebody living above the poverty line. In a theoretical future where produce is priced according to true production cost, I'd be correspondingly paid a lot more for my labor and more able to purchase it.

I don't want to lapse into self-parody here, and like iateeegah! I've already trolled on a lot of these threads. So what I want to say is that, ethically speaking, there's nothing better any of us can do (w/r/t consumer culture) than buying the most socially- and environmentally-conscious products we can reasonably afford; limiting our quantity of purchase; and reusing whenever prudent and possible. "Ethical" purchasing shouldn't be wholly the privilege of the affluent; of those with expendable incomes. CSAs, local retailers, and farm stands are lovely for folks with access and ability, but buying from them when it's disadvantageous (logistically, financially) is just... self-destructive. As with the relative "goodness" of charitable donations – a millionaire donating $10,000 or an unemployed high schooler donating $1 - there's no sliding scale of rectitude or conscionable-ness, and the 'most ethical reasonable purchase' any person can afford should remain a private, personal decision.

― free banana man! free banana man! (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 21:52 (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in other words, i want my $1.99 pineapple, and fuck any haters who say i have to pay $5 to buy an ethical one or learn to go without. pineapple is delicious.

― free banana man! free banana man! (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 21:59 (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is great and all but i started the thread because i know no alternative to the cheap evil pineapple and there could be a cheap good pineapple, an expensive good pineapple or maybe i should just stop eating pineapple. ya get me?

I just wanted to drop in and say that even building yer own computer isn't that much more ethical than buying a prebuilt one

all the parts are still made in east asia/SE asia. you're just the one snapping the pieces onto motherboard and screwing some screws in, instead of the factory worker. but the manufacturing processes involved in making PCBs are still incredibly toxic and leak tons of heavy metals into the environment.

also am just going to point out that there are a lot of very impoverished people whos livelihood depends on working in sweatshops, unfortunately, so there's that to take into account

I have been trying very very hard to not opine on the irony of this entire conversation happening on the Internet but I just lost the battle with myself.

In a theoretical future where produce is priced according to true production cost, I'd be correspondingly paid a lot more for my labor and more able to purchase it.

eh not really, unfortuantely. iatee's specifically referring to carbon tax that would just makes stuff more expensive, not raise wages.

the whole concept of the true cost pineapple is kind of flawed tho because it imagines that certain purchases are more priveleged wrt cost allotment than others - when in fact everything we buy is operating in some way on a subsidized level, its one of the great efficiencies of communal living. pineapples being locatable and seemingly exotic in origin make them an easy strawman, but they arent actually any different than buying apples from mn when you live in manhattan.

btw apropos of nothing, I spent the weekend with my dad in Chicago who spent about 14 hours raving about how amazing MN apples have become

honeycrisps are good its true

not as good as fujis tho

and i can eat them guilt free! hooray for america!

xpost nah we got a whole new apple going on right now that i cant remember the name of, gala something maybe?

sweet tango?

I think it's SweeTango(TM), although based on how my dad was going on about them they should be called CrackOrgasm.

also am just going to point out that there are a lot of very impoverished people whos livelihood depends on working in sweatshops, unfortunately, so there's that to take into account

― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 22:39 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eh when you get paid less than the cost of two meals a day cost in your town, let alone afford shelter or proper clothing etc. to work 18 hour shifts every day, 'depends on working in sweatshops' is a p huge misnomer.

you just stacked the deck there but even so oftentimes its better than the backgrounds and pisspoor places they're coming from

I don't think the "sweatshop workers don't make that much anyway so it's better if none of the money I spend doesn't go to them" argument is particularly ethical

(by which I really mean, there isn't really a good answer to this conundrum)

alternatively, "its better if my money goes towards manufacturers actually getting that money"

actual question T/S: sustenance-level farming vs. sweatshop

er should be subsistence-level there

haha please feel free to argue that on my thread overseas manufacturing in developing countries

anyway, the idea is not to punish workers at sweatshops with unemployment, but to force their employers to pay them better. Unfortunately, finding mechanisms to counter capitalism's ever-present drive to cut labor costs as much as possible is pretty difficult

public shaming imo

Apart from a few derfred obvious boycotts (Nestlé, News Corp), last year I found an Australia-specific list of ethical products that has almost completely redefined our shopping habits. Finding truly free-range eggs is still a nightmare though.

make a logo for it and we're in

just don't eat eggs, they're gross anyway

who wants to go lick some lichen off of rocks with me

i have evolved so i just derive protein from oxygen

ETHICAL CONSUMER talk about an oxymoron!!!!!

Finding truly free-range eggs is still a nightmare though.

My freinds used to raise chickens on the scraps from their kitchen. Best eggs ever.

oxy moron

get a brain oxymoran

get some oxy clean brain

buy ethically!

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/image002.jpg

Things I do:
- never ever buy bottled water. Its a waste of plastic, money, water and add to landfill. Biggest scam going. Almost mnever buy any other bottled drinks too, unless i'm caught out and it is a hot day.
- secondhand clothes. The money is usually going to a decent charity, the clothing is cheap. Sure it is likely it was still made somewhere dodgy to start with but it helps a little, I'd like to think
- locally grown veges and eggs and, at the least, australian-produced/grown meats and other produce. Not always possible, but I try where I can
- to add to that ive started growing a lot of my own veggies. This is fun, and I know theyre fresh, and organic.

Srsly though, bottled water, stop drinking that shit y'all.

But yeah as others have said, then I fall down on the computer front :( (tho my cellphones and iphone have all been hand me downs)

http://youtu.be/hpAMbpQ8J7g

I can't say I am impressed by that Zizek talk. He calls the act of buying an apple an act of "egoistic consumption" (btw, if you listen carefully he says this is not just true for an organic apple, but for any apple). wtf, a person has to eat.

Maybe he acquires apples only by standing at the base of a long chute the upper end of which is cloaked in mystery, down which random objects rattle, among which are, at times, apples.

"the real aim is to try & recostruct society on such a basis that povrety will be impossible" .

- never ever buy bottled water. Its a waste of plastic, money, water and add to landfill. Biggest scam going.

If I'm out and I don't have water, I'll sooner buy some than dehydrate and get an 'eadache, but I'll also go to ridiculous lengths to find cheap water. Also (and I know this is not you) there are people who rail against paying $4 for a bottle of water but will happily pay $4.20 for a soft drink, i.e. exactly the same thing with a bit of flavouring and colouring.

Oh and I agree its just as bad with soft drink, yep. Esp those fricking nutrient waters (which we've all railed at elsewhere). Its just a particular gall for water - especaially as it isnt even "mineral water" anymore, it's just cleaned up drinking-supply water.

Apparently in some countries, the production of plastics to create water bottles pollutes the area's water supplies so badly, that they need to... BUY BOTTLED WATER because the water supply is undrinkable. Funny that.

Everyone has an ethical bonnet-bee. That one's mine.

Fiji's a good example of designer water causing local damage. They flog Fiji brand water at exorbitant prices and the locals are short of drinking water.

Actually that might be being addressed.