Are there really things you have to experience to understand?

feel like sometimes people say stuff like "well if you haven't [done something], you can't understand it." and in the past this has always seemed like bullshit to me, like people can understand all kinds of abstract stuff they haven't experienced. but since becoming a parent i feel like a lot of the emotions/experiences i have as a parent are things i would really have trouble expressing to people who aren't parents. but also i am pretty bad at describing things. so basically: do think that there are things in life that have to be experienced first-hand to be fully understood?

never really felt the 'power' of love songs til I was in a long-term relationship

i would imagine kids are the big one. probably marriage too. lsd trips.

Actually, the biggest one is probably playing sports, especially football. I've played OL/linebacker in high school and even at that level it's totally brutal - I don't think your typical TV viewer really understands like 80% of what's happening on the field. A good example was that whole shitstorm that occured when Matt Dodge couldn't punt the ball out of bounds until actual NFL punters spoke up to educate everyone how tough that really is.

I mean dont get me wrong I don't think the typical casual viewer is stupid or anything, just that like 90-95% of the narratives you read on SI/ESPN or your typical sports blog are crap.

orgasm

i guess my other question is if there are things that have to be experienced to be understood, then what is the point of art? like if you can't make someone truly comprehend someone else's experiences by writing a novel or making a movie, then why write that novel or make that movie?

The Grand Canyon is indescribable. Even pictures fail to do it justice. I could not grasp the scale and sheer enormity of it until we went to go see it.

i guess my other question is if there are things that have to be experienced to be understood, then what is the point of art? like if you can't make someone truly comprehend someone else's experiences by writing a novel or making a movie, then why write that novel or make that movie?

Because reading the novel/watching the movie evokes a completely different set of totally valid experiences?

Art may be less about the moments when we had those singular experiences and more about our reactions afterward, how we dealt with life going forward after becoming a parent, after coming, after getting high.

nothing that is worth knowing can be taught lol

except calculus

not worth it imho

like if you can't make someone truly comprehend someone else's experiences by writing a novel or making a movie, then why write that novel or make that movie?

The point of reading a novel isn't "to truly comprehend someone else's experiences," though. Because you're never going to be able to do that.

well maybe the art question was a bad digression - i consider part of the importance of art to get people to empathize/understand other people's lives/situations/etc. - but the main question in the OP is the important one here

Empathy and understanding ate very separate things, though - e.g. I may not fully understand what it feels like to deal with a very sick child, but I can empathize

ok. well in that case. . . i think parenting is totally, absolutely something that has to be experienced in order to understand.

so. yes!

Isn't that sympathy, then?

Is this not the difference between sympathy and empathy?

Some people are more empathic than others. Highly empathic people have an easier time "truly understanding" other people's experiences regardless of whether or not they have experienced them firsthand than people who are not on that end of the spectrum. Not 100% UNDERSTANDING, but more.

being raced

I would generalize to say that any experience that involves a powerful emotion cannot be fully understood on a purely intellectual basis, because the presence of a powerful emotion alters your brain in ways that cannot be replicated through a dispassionate observation of the facts. The texture and quality of your understanding is radically different when you've felt the emotion, rather than just observed it.

Yeah in particular the "life flashing in front of your eyes" phenomenon which I have experienced and is pretty tough to describe

i think postitions of minority are p difficult if not impossible to think your way into

Lucky for me I was a minor for 18 years.

OK, I realize that was in bad taste. Sorry.

Yes! Like, to have an understanding of the general theory of relativity, going through the experience of the thought experiment with the train and the light bulbs brings the understanding.

There's so much science stuff that makes no sense at all (at least to me) until you see it in action. I know this is probably different than what you're getting at, but I think that producing experiences is the real core of educating; whether it is a chain of thoughts in a students head or a course of action and the decisions we make in life.

Xps no, I agree that there is still a difference between empathy and sympathy, but la lachera kind of ended up making my point: you can still have empathy even without experience. I guess a good example might be: you have a very sick child, i.don't have kids but perhaps I can empathize because I have dealt with a seriously I'll sibling, parent or partner; you have a kid that dies, and I can only sympathize, bc I have never experienced anything close to that.

No offense, but I find it weird that a person can live into their 30s and still even question that this is true.

But as an example -- even being ABOUT to be a parent is something that has been eye-opening for me. Which is not to say there's some qualitatively uniform experience of parenthood-to-be, but I definitely find myself feeling strange anxieties and pressures I never imagined, even contemplating life choices that would have seemed absurd to me a year ago (e.g. seriously considering living somewhere I don't like for a few years just to save a lot of money for the future, really doing any kind of long-term horizon planning at all).

Xpost: Essentially.

lots of medical conditions/illnesses.

being cool

even contemplating life choices that would have seemed absurd to me a year ago (e.g. seriously considering living somewhere I don't like for a few years just to save a lot of money for the future, really doing any kind of long-term horizon planning at all).

isn't this 'being a good parent' not 'being a parent'? like how much of wanting to provide everything you can for your kid is inherent in human parenthood and how much of it is cultural/social/etc. cause there are plenty of people who have kids and don't do this.

this is basically just a list of significant life events and worldview-changing experiences, right?

i would add: being a political refugee, being in a war, being the victim of a violent crime, blablablablabla

i'm really only questioning it to start a discussion on the topic. i guess it's just weird to me that given our capacity for empathy, abstract thought, and description, that there so many things that are apparently indescribable.

like that kind of makes me despair a little bit

being stranded in the middle of the ocean
traveling through outer space

i consider part of the importance of art to get people to empathize/understand other people's lives/situations/etc.

i think it goes beyond that though - art arouses feelings/thoughts in us, not necessarily about other people but about ourselves in connection to other people, like a recognition that other people have felt/thought the same way you have, and expressed it in their own ways that happen to connect to you

we could keep listing experiences, or we could just accept that we won't understand them all, right?

i guess the crux of this question is what does "understand" mean

that's why one can always go back to new art and get something from it, because one is constantly changing and experiencing new things/thoughts/feelings
xps

theres always a gap btw understanding s.thing from lived xp and understanding s.thing conceptually, as an abstract. but i dont think it means that bcuz the kernel of xp isnt communicable doesnt mean that its 'indescribable' or that attempts to gain insight into these mindsets/xps are worthless or futile

^ yeah this is what i'm trying to get at

I guess otoh there's a funny tendency to assume or act as if certain shared experiences are normalized, especially as social lubricant. For example at work there's the inevitable "ha ha marriage" banter, a lot of which winds up ringing hollow because marriages can be pretty different from one another.

What is it like to be a bat?

For example at work there's the inevitable "ha ha marriage" banter
Can you describe this in more detail pls?

On second thought, nevermind. I don't want to know.

Usually older guys at work trying to be friendly. Mostly innocuous stuff, like you bring in leftovers for once and a guy jokes that you must have done some home project so your wife cooked for you.

it's so weird that there seems to be an entire subgroup of men for whom marriage as an awesome fun time with your best friend is an entirely theoretical concept.

ppl just like to complain and are really selfish

My first three responses to that were totally inappropriate, and I erased them, so I will go with 'wow.'

Can I add "being a woman" to this list? (And "being a man" for that matter)

What is it like to be a bat?

OTM

What is it like to be a bat?

OTM

― no more mr. nice girls (Abbbottt), Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:04 AM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

What is it like to have UV vision to look for kangaroo rat piss
riddle me that

illiteracy?

I have a hard time comprehending not being able to read, in the first place, but also how your life functions when you're illiterate.

Thread is reminding me of all of Kaspar Hauser movie but esp this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAnOi0fnxuE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7hGx9okkE4&feature=related

While we're at it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPUOpMYVmqQ

the late 1960s

granted i was a kid but you have to have "been there" to understand how distorted baby boomers memories are

success/failure/pleasure/pain

New timberlake joint

mdma

Tinnitus. It is impossible to describe what it "sounds" like - even tinnitus sufferers all experience it differently. I've considered creating the noises using synths to try and show people what its like, but I'm not sure I could capture the feeling: its not just sound, its a "sensation" as well, and it is very unpleasant sometimes.