felony disenfranchisement AKA denying convicts and ex-convicts the right to vote

What are the most common justifications for denying felons and ex-felons the right to vote? Obviously it's an attempt to change the nature of the voting population through systematic disenfranchisement of mostly minority voters-- that is, an extension of Jim Crow. But I'm not sure how folks who would favor it justify it in public, outside of referring to an obscure and ambiguous clause in the 14th amendment.

good summary at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement

afaik only two States disqualify ex-felons from voting in the US. i don't think this is necessarily a logical argument against letting people currently serving sentences vote, but i suspect the reason why we don't let them is because of stuff like abjection. they've been removed from society (some might say that they removed themselves from society from transgressing the rules of that society) and so they can't participate in something intrinsically about constituting society like voting. i'm not sure if that's a good thing, but i think it's understandable? i don't think ex-felons should be disqualified from voting, and i'm glad it seems to be relatively rare? forgive me if i'm wrong about the actual facts on the ground about who can and can't vote.

it just so happens that a lot of drug charges are also felonies, right?

i'm in favor of decriminalizing drugs charges

(well, actually in favor of full legalization, but very in favor of decriminalization esp if needed as a mediatory step between criminalization and liberalization)

lord knows there isn't a moral standard you have to meet in order to vote, so why should committing a felony (which could mean any number of things, from selling drugs on up to rape and murder) disqualify you from voting? don't you still have an important stake in who gets elected and what laws they pass? don't you still deserve representation?

in several states those on parole are denied the right to vote -- or are denied this right until they petition for it, which i think is an undue burden.

this all seems transparently like a continuation of jim crow in the guise of legislating morality (which is problematic in itself).

ok

i've heard some republicans in florida actually argue that felons and ex-cons shouldn't be permitted to vote since they might form a voting bloc that would vote for candidates who courted them by promising less arrests and lenient punishment, etc.

which is hilarious/offensive on a number of levels:

1) idea that ex-cons would form a coherent voting bloc

2) idea that candidates would run on a "less law and order" platform

3) idea that a group of people, whatever their background, shouldn't have representation because we wouldn't like the outcome. that reminds me of my hebrew school teacher who explained to me that palestinians should vote in israeli elections because they "breed like rabbits" and would eventually outnumber jews, thus endangering its status as a chauvinist state.

i dunno maybe i took my grammar school lessons about "democracy" too seriously.

palestinians SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO vote is what he said

sorry for typos.

clearly this is an issue about which you're very passionate. are you involved in any activist groups wrt this?

i'm sure there are some republicans who truly believe that, regardless of race, you shouldn't be able to vote if you're a felon, but generally speaking it's a way to cut out minority voters that's an easy to sell to constituents and independents cuz who gives a shit about criminals, right?

mordy doing a lot to move the discussion along, solve problems

the ex-felon that i am closely related to (was released about a year ago) was arrested on a drug sales charge. he is registered to vote in the next election and plans to vote republican.

clearly this is an issue about which you're very passionate. are you involved in any activist groups wrt this?

― Mordy, Friday, February 10, 2012 9:23 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, but i should be. i've only been thinking about it for a while. i'll see what's going on in my state.

it's a tough argument to make because of folks' reflexive aversion to cons/ex-cons and americans' love for harsh punishment.

the ex-felon that i am closely related to (was released about a year ago) was arrested on a drug sales charge. he is registered to vote in the next election and plans to vote republican.

― Mordy, Friday, February 10, 2012 10:27 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark

a highly representative sample of one

lol, who are you arguing with? i was just talking about my personal experiences with this issue. i wasn't drawing any conclusion from that.

oh well in that case

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyw9sdykC61qffoo2o1_500.jpg

yeah, it is a good story and kind of fits in with my idea that ex-felons as a "voting bloc" is kind of hard to imagine.

it's not that their a voting bloc but felons are overwhelmingly minority and minorities overwhelmingly vote democrat so you don't exactly need to be nate silver to draw some conclusions either way there

well right of course but the idea that they would come together and vote for some manchurian candidate type dude who is going to undermine law and order is hilarious.

oh, well, yes

which is the spectre called up by some of the justifications for disenfranchisement i recall reading a few years back when this was debated in florida.

Only two states, Maine and Vermont, permit inmates to vote while serving felony prison terms.

feel like this could be the starting point for some dumb political "satire" movie, maybe work in a hanging-chad type situation where the votes from a prison get to decide a presidential election

well right of course but the idea that they would come together and vote for some manchurian candidate type dude who is going to undermine law and order is hilarious.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, February 10, 2012 10:40 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this would be awesome though

this is an issue about which i feel strongly too, and I think i'm pretty much in agreement with you across the board here

BUZZA OTM

everybody 16 and up should be allowed to vote including people who're locked up & it's irritating to me that since people are insane & don't agree w/that premise, we gotta bargain it down to "what if you've served your time, can you maybe vote then?"

When I went back home to visit my fams over xmas, I got to hang with my old high school friend who got out of prison ~3 years ago. I was really surprised to hear he couldn't vote (but it didn't occur to me to ask how long this lasts, I was just shocked by the whole idea). Which, that's my question, how long does this last once you're out of prison? Does it vary by crime/state/judge/direction of the wind/etc.? Wiki didn't cover it.

I think he's still on parole fwiw, which ends when he pours literally hundreds of hours/his own $$$ into counseling.

I ~think~ that's when it ends anyway.
He had to get permission to leave town with me.

um

U.S. felons were barred from voting for life in (I think) all states until the mid-90's, when reform movements started rolling some of this stuff back. also barred from owing handguns and a host of other restrictions.

oh here's the stats, Mordy you were almost completely wrong there:

Today, forty-eight states and the District of Columbia prohibit felons in prison from voting, and thirty-three states ban people on probation and/or parole as well. In thirteen states a felony offense can result in the loss of voting rights even after the sentence has been completed, and often for life.

Nationally, an estimated 5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of laws that prohibit voting by people with felony convictions. Felony disenfranchisement is an obstacle to participation in democratic life which is exacerbated by racial disparities in the criminal justice system, resulting in an estimated 13% of Black men unable to vote.

some good links:

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/irr_hr_winter04_felon.html

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/research/felon_disenfranchisement/

it's cool that gun laws make it really easy for convicted felons to obtain handguns but not to vote

i'm totally cool with denying convicts, and everyone else, the right to own firearms though

otm