WAS DECK4RD A REPLICANT

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Turtle_Sex.jpg

THAT DRAEM MEAND DERKER IS A REPLICUNT CUZ OF EDWARD JAMES ALMOST MAKING TEH ORIGASMI UNIKORN AT TEH END HE KNOWS HIS DREAMS AND DERKARD IS NOT HUMAN
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, August 6, 2004 4:09 PM (7 years ago)

voted THAT DRAEM MEAND DERKER IS A REPLICUNT CUZ OF EDWARD JAMES ALMOST MAKING TEH ORIGASMI UNIKORN AT TEH END HE KNOWS HIS D

No. Because it's too easy an answer for a movie based on a PKD novel.

in the absence of 'obviously', voted orgasmi unikorn

not enough data

depends, what version u watchin doggie

theatrical: maybe
director's/final cut: almost certainly (unicorn dream)

All I know is the sd/track is great...

^^^ this, and that ambient soundtrack that was around websites a few years ago is also superb, great fun to listen to if you are walking around a city at night

han shot frist

the manhunter thread got me thinking about movies whose soundtracks halt and pull you out of the movie.
it might have seemed appropriate at the time, but now the soundtrack really dates it, though i'm glad ridley
scott hasn't gone all lucas-y and substituted burial or something.

What if Deckard had merely mentioned Gaff that he'd had this recurring dream about an unicorn? And Gaff just thought it was an interesting image and made an origami because of that, and the origami was merely meant to be a message to Deckard that Gaff had been there but had decided to let him and Rachael go (that's how I interpreted the origami before I saw the directors cut with the unicorn dream)? No need for a replicant explanation then.

Basically, I think the "Deckard is a replicant" explanation is stupid, because the whole point of the finale is that Deckard is ultimately less human and more of an automaton than Batty, so revealing him to be a replicant too kinda undermines that. If Scott wanted him to be replicant, then that means he didnt't get the theme of his own bloody movie. Plus Deckard wasn't a replicant in the book either.

Personally, I think the best version of BR would be one that's otherwise like the original cut (no unicorn dream, the film noir monologue stays intact; I think the movie suffers from the lack of it), but ends like the director's cut, so it doesn't have the tacked-one happy ending where Rachael has been given a full human lifetime.

Edward James Almost

I think it's worth watching the movie once with the narration, because it does give an extra bit of information. OTOH it's a distraction. I've never been particularly bothered about the 'happy ending' the way a lot of BR fans are. It's obvious that Deckard and Rachel get away, and Gaff indicates that he's not coming after them, so the addition of a few shots of them in a car isn't enough to get worked up over.

Even with the 'unicorn dream' scene in the movie, I'm with Toumas's theory that Deckard told Gaff about this weird dream he had. He could even be mentioning it in the aircar ride from the noodle bar to the police station:

Deckard: "Hey I had this funny dream about a unicorn last night."
Gaff: <in Cityspeak> "Really? Think I give a toss about that?"

Taking Sides: Basing a hypothesis on something that's actually in the film vs. on a hypothetical conversation that is not in the movie, book or referenced anywhere other than your imagination.

xpost Where do you get this "Deckard is less human than Batty" theme from?

Taking Side: Deckard dreams about a unicorn and it has to be an implanted memory because he's a replicant vs. Deckard has funny dreams and describes them to people he meets.

Except there is no reason to even think that the latter ever took place, whereas there are several examples throughout the film of implanted memories.

Well, it wasn't originally in the film.

I've never been particularly bothered about the 'happy ending' the way a lot of BR fans are. It's obvious that Deckard and Rachel get away, and Gaff indicates that he's not coming after them, so the addition of a few shots of them in a car isn't enough to get worked up over.

The happy ending is not just them getting away, it's Deckard's monologue during the car ride that Tyrell gave Rachael a normal human lifespan instead of 4 years.

(xxx-post)

Well, it wasn't originally in the film.

What, the unicorn stuff?

Because clearly it was made, and it's in the director's cut from a director who otherwise has disavowed the "director's cut" idea, a director who also has stated outright that he made the movie with the idea that Deckard is a replicant.

The unicorn dream got added in the Director's Cut.

"Added." But it was obviously originally shot before Scott lost control of the film.

And he obviously wanted it in there.

xpost Where do you get this "Deckard is less human than Batty" theme from?

Deckard kills sentient beings for living. In the end Batty decides not to kill him, even though he'd have every reason to do so. (In general, Batty seems to care much more about life and living than him, which is kinda understandable given his shorter existence.) So Batty certainly comes off as more human than Deckard.

The theme is not that Batty is more human but that Batty is as human. It is an important distinction.

Dekert was a Demicrant, not a Replicant

Batty kills Tyrell, possibly Sebastian and Chew. May or may not have been involved in killing the passengers and crew of the shuttle, depending on whether or not you believe Bryant's briefing.

None of the main characters come across as particularly human apart from Rachel.

what if the whole thing was a unicorns dream

Batty kills lots of people in cold blood because he is going nuts with panic. I always thought it characterization was kind of one of almost childish impulsiveness as he's confronted with his premature mortality.

what if the whole thing was a unicorns dream

"Legend" is Ridley Scott's unicorn dream.

http://aj.firefish.org/images/reviewfiles/legendcouple.jpg

ok but what if it was someone elses unicorn

C'mon, it's Tom Cruise's unicorn.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that Scott didn't mean the unicorn to imply Deckard is a replicant; he probably did. (My alternate theory was basically just a way to get around that directorial intent.) I'm just saying that it's a stupid decision, which undermines a central point in the movie just to add a "DO YOU SEE? HOW IRONIC!" ending to it, an ending that doesn't really thematically add anything to BR that wasn't already there.

That's a different argument: does it work? But does the film indicate he's a replicant? Yes.

THAT DRAEM MEAND DERKER IS A REPLICUNT CUZ OF EDWARD JAMES ALMOST MAKING TEH ORIGASMI UNIKORN AT TEH END HE KNOWS HIS D

is what I've always thought

Also his eyes does the glowy thing once in a way that had to have been intentional. Someone may have already said that. I didn't read the whole thread.

eyes DO not does

have you guys seen the sequel

blade runner 2 electric sheepaloo?

Blade Runners?

is the directors cut good i dont think ive seen it

Batty kills lots of people in cold blood because he is going nuts with panic. I always thought it characterization was kind of one of almost childish impulsiveness as he's confronted with his premature mortality.

Yep, this. Batty kills in order to survive, and because he's (justifiably) angry at Tyrell for having such a short life. Deckard is much more detached, he doesn't seem to care about anything. IMO that's the whole point of the ending for Deckard; he realizes that a replicant, a being he used to "retire" for living, can be more alive than him, a human. That point is lost if Deckard is a replicant too.

i think i fell asleep watching it once

didn't know ridley scott got ink did you

OK SO:

There a dozens or hundreds of reasons for a simpleton to believe that Deckard is NOT a replicant, such as:

1. That he hunts other replicants to kill them, almost but not quite remorselessly.
2. That none of the people who make replicants for a living seem to know what he is.
3. That few or none of the people who hunt replicants for a living seem to know what he is.
4. That few or none of the other replicants recognize him as one of them.
5. That he lives like a schmuck, unaware of his replicant capabilites.

But there is also at least one very good reason for a smart person to believe that Deckard is NOT a replicant:

6. That the story is not quite as heavy if he is a replicant because if he is a human that makes the story way heavy at the end where Roy is Jesus.

HOWEVER.

I am privileged to know EXACTLY how all of the enumerated elements above COMBINE to FORM a VOLTRON TRUTH of Deckard's replicantness, and I will reveal to you now:

1. There is/was a government program to build replicants outside of the auspices of the Tyrell Corporation, specifically to ensure a control function over corporate military replicants in case they go rogue.
2. Some of these government black bag replicants are implanted into police forces around the world for exactly this purpose, used as Blade Runners only on occasions where a replicant or two defeats the usual guns and dogs approach.
3. Tyrell has no clue that these replicants exist; in fact, when the Corporation puts questions to the government about the manufacture of excessive synthetic people pieces, the excuse given is that this is for the repair and maintenance of human combat veterans, injured police and firefighters, and who can argue with that?
4. Roy and Rachel are the first Tyrell replicants able to discern Deckard's origin.
5. This revelation leads both of them to interesting narrative decisions.
6. Gaff knows all of this shit all along but god knows he's not allowed to be anything but obtuse about it unless he wants his entire family shipped off to some mining colony in the middle of shitspace.

TRACKING?

ok my 1-6 FOR does not quite map to my 1-6 AGAINST but fuck everyone

also add

7. Clearly Deckard is a goddamn replicant, he gets the living shit beat out of him my merciless superhumans and gets back up like AW MAN MY FINGER

huh

what is more likely that deckard is not a replicant or that they will release a cg effects version showing that zhora shot first

El Tomboto, I enjoy your theorem immensely

also re: #1-5 has it ever occurred to you that it is all an elaborate psyop in the style of hard boiled

b-b-b-but THE ORIGAMI UNICORN

yeah, reasons 1-5 are poop cuz everybody is obviously lying about everything anyway. "gives rise to an error in replication" my ass.

which 1-5 are you guys bitching about so I can tell you how you are wrong

I mean the interesting thing here is how my post-9/11 military/DHS/FBI/NSA employee mindset informs my Deckard replicant reasoning, not how you guys can or cannot pick it apart. For Batty's sake, people

hi tom!

Like I assume that in a reasonable future world there's no way Leon packs a gun into the interview room unless he is designed with a one-shot, built-in, BUTTCHEEK-MOUNTED ARMOR-PIERCING RIFLE which seems, given the technology discussed in the film, reasonably plausible

and if that is the case, there is even less reason to believe that the forces of the state would be stupid enough to send a homegrown human against such a menace, certainly not after one of their cleverest USDA certified organic detectives gets blown in half by same

follow-on question: how much of a replicant is Holden after he comes out of the hospital? A plurality, or more?

which 1-5 are you guys bitching about so I can tell you how you are wrong

― El Tomboto, Monday, March 5, 2012 9:05 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

no worries, the wrong ones are the ones you say are wrong anyway

HI HORSESHOE!

I just noticed that this poll closes in 7 years

plenty of time to think baout things

the deep untold back story here is that Deckard is an accidental replicant: over the years of his career as a Blade Runner, he's been rebuilt so many times that only a fraction of his own brain is "factory equipment" and everything else is a replacement part, making him closer to Batty than any other human, and yet closer to a human than Batty will ever be.

I just dropped some Derek Parfit shit on this thread and I ain't even mean to

like a trusty old axe

would read tom's fanfic

1. That he hunts other replicants to kill them, almost but not quite remorselessly.

replicants are programmed for certain functions, deckard's is to take out other replicants. bryant tells us the replicants were designed to develop their own emotional responses. deckard has evolved to the point where some part of him regrets what he does.

2. That none of the people who make replicants for a living seem to know what he is.
3. That few or none of the people who hunt replicants for a living seem to know what he is.

tyrell tells us replicants who don't know their origins are easier to control. psyops 101 = it's easiest to manipulate those who think they aren't being manipulated. everybody knows, but they're all keeping mum, like tyrell does with rachel.

4. That few or none of the other replicants recognize him as one of them.

replicants can't recognize other replicants, any more than humans can.

5. That he lives like a schmuck, unaware of his replicant capabilites.

see #2-3

6. That the story is not quite as heavy if he is a replicant because if he is a human that makes the story way heavy at the end where Roy is Jesus.

well yeah

1. There is/was a government program to build replicants outside of the auspices of the Tyrell Corporation, specifically to ensure a control function over corporate military replicants in case they go rogue.
2. Some of these government black bag replicants are implanted into police forces around the world for exactly this purpose, used as Blade Runners only on occasions where a replicant or two defeats the usual guns and dogs approach.
3. Tyrell has no clue that these replicants exist; in fact, when the Corporation puts questions to the government about the manufacture of excessive synthetic people pieces, the excuse given is that this is for the repair and maintenance of human combat veterans, injured police and firefighters, and who can argue with that?

this is like saying the US govt could secretly develop an ipad that could beat apple's ipad. you know if they tried it would be a sub-leon ipad.

4. Roy and Rachel are the first Tyrell replicants able to discern Deckard's origin.
5. This revelation leads both of them to interesting narrative decisions.

if roy knew deckard was a replicant he would tell him just to fuck with his head. also he wouldn't make great tanhauser gate death soliloquies that start with "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe". rachel may suspect but she doesn't go there beyond asking him if he's ever taken the test.

6. Gaff knows all of this shit all along but god knows he's not allowed to be anything but obtuse about it unless he wants his entire family shipped off to some mining colony in the middle of shitspace.

or maybe HE'S a replicant.

7. Clearly Deckard is a goddamn replicant, he gets the living shit beat out of him my merciless superhumans and gets back up like AW MAN MY FINGER

zhora could've killed him but got interrupted. leon almost ended him but rachel saved him. pris is a pleasure unit so her battle skills aren't advanced - she has to kill him with aerobics. roy toys with him, hurting him but not incapacitating him, and his fear keeps him going. but if deckard is a replicant he's an advanced model like rachel - more human because he's not superhuman, subject to the aches and pains of normal beings. he needs to crash after his night out w/ zhora and leon.

I just noticed that this poll closes in 7 years

plenty of time to think baout things

― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:20 AM

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/BladeRunnerOpeningTitles.png

more human because he's not superhuman

If the police force want to use replicants to kill other replicants, why send one "human" replicant against four superhuman ones; wouldn't it make more sense to send several superhuman ones?

maybe tom is right, maybe deckard is just a shitty government-produced ipad.

look, we spent the money on this thing, so you're going to use it... no, you can't have 4 battle replicants, have you seen your overtime budget? maybe if you spent as much time finding replicants as you did making excuses, we'd be getting somewhere.

look, we spent the money on this thing, so you're going to use it... no, you can't have 4 battle replicants, have you seen your overtime budget?

But why would the police force even develop a weak "human" replicant like Deckard in the first place, since they have the option of superhuman replicants?

the same reason they don't send high powered cutting edge teachers into my kid's public school. they're available, you know? don't understand why they just don't send them in there.

oh wait finland

are you a REPLICAN or a REPLICAN'T

irl lols mh

if batty is battle droid, why he look like rutger hauer and not tetsuo iron man?

lol if you read some of the interviews with David Peoples, one of the Blade Runner scriptwriters, the army in his movie Soldier is supposed to be replicants. They never really spell that out in the movie and they just seem like brainwashed military drones, but they reference some of the same battles as Roy Batty and there's a junked BR spinner vehicle in the background on a shot.

technology improvements between 1989 and 2016 obv

xp

"lol if you read some of the interviews with David Peoples, one of the Blade Runner scriptwriters, the army in his movie Soldier is supposed to be replicants"

yikes--reading imdb trivia on soldier:

Among the garbage on the planet is the USS Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the F-117X Remora from Executive Decision, a spinner from Blade Runner, and a piece of the Lewis & Clark from Event Horizon.
*
Todd's service record, displayed on a computer screen, includes the following: - The battles of Tannhauser Gate and Shoulder of Orion (references to Blade Runner) - Receipt of the "Plissken Medal" (reference to Escape from New York and its sequel Escape from L.A.). Receipt of the "O'Neil Ring Award" (reference to Stargate (1994)) - Receipt of the "Cash Medal of Honor" (reference to Tango and Cash (1989)) Receipt of the "Maccready Cross" (reference to The Thing (1982)) - Receipt of the "Capt Ron Trophy" (reference to Captain Ron (1992)) - Receipt of the "McCaffrey Fire Award" (reference to Backdraft (1991)) - Receipt of the "Dexter Riley Award" (reference to The Strongest Man in the World (1975), Now You See Him, Now You Don't (1972), The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes (1969)) - Citations for the Nibian Moons Campaign, the Antares Maelstrom War and the War Of Perdition's Flames, locations referred to in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
*
Todd's weapons training record lists the "USMC Smartgun" and "M41A pulse rifle" (references to Aliens) and the "DOOM MKIV BFG" - a reference to the computer game Doom.

Wait we don't have Captain Ron on the comedy poll, do we?!?

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

waht is happening

DEK4R were cancelled just last week. 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

ooh this is exciting I can't wait to find out

seven long years we've waited

https://i.imgur.com/xrNiUjn.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tz5ykjis2k

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

worth waiting for

Origasmi?

He knows his D

origasmi unicorn ftw

worth the 7 year wait imo

Director's Cut ending is so boss, elevator doors shut IT'S OVER

― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, March 3, 2012 9:05 PM (seven years ago)

this is so otm btw, probably one of my favorite movie endings ever

Edward James Almost

laughed too hard at this

glad we've had 2049 since this poll was started to offer the definitive answer on this issue, which is of course 'if you're asking this question you're missing the point you fucking rube'