What do you think of the 9/11 anniversary events?

My own sense is that public commemoration swiftly becomes a way of forgetting, not remembering. This could be a good thing (eg. if the thought of 9/11 troubles you a lot and you never want to think about it again). But if you are genuinely concerned with remembrance then it's very hard to find the right way of organizing it - because (I'll loosely venture) 'real memory' is not 'organized' in that way.

Upshot of what I'm saying maybe = we would remember more vividly if there was NO official remembrance, only our own sudden stunnededness at that very fact.

What I do disagree with is the shift in meaning of the 1/2/3-minute silence which is happening in the UK. The 2-minute silence on Armistice Day I think is profoundly important, a means of remembering the incomprehensible number of dead from two world wars. Having minutes' silence here there and everywhere whenever something bad happens cheapens that for me - I thought last year that having three minutes' silence after 9/11 was a crass act of one-upmanship (yes yes world wars but this is a minute worse) and I still think that, and having national minutes of silence for individual deaths (Holly & Jessica; Princess Diana) strikes me as inappropriate too. Use other commemorations please. I've not seen this opinion reflected in the media though so I guess on this one I'm a crank.

I've also heard the view that advertising should be banned on the day of the main celebrations, again it strikes me that to speculate about the advertising that goes on on the day is the luxury of people who are far removed from what actually happened in the first place.

The closest analogy to the current situation is Diana's death - removed from the actual life-changing enormity of the event as it was happening last year, in Australia the anniversary just feels like an excuse for the public to indulge in an outpouring of voyeuristic emotion, the only motivation for which is the desire to feel swept up within important goings-on, and to hold forth on all manner of issues with little awareness or background just because, y'know, it's cool to dig politics and world news again.

And as with Diana's death, the media's response has been typically weak-willed, with even the most rigorous organs of journalistic quality devolving into sentimentalist mush, swapping critique and analysis for self-indulgent "Where were you...?" vox pops and cooing lifestyle-with-edge puff-pieces about "the baby the september 11 terrorists could never take away!"

Now it's about American patriotism and anti-Islam/Arab-scare-mongering.

Well, I guess that is anti-globalism, just not in the way it was originally intended.

The Nipper rightly echoes what I tried to say upthread.

I repeat that Public Remembrance may actually be a way of not remembering - which is also part of Tim F says re. 'stifling', I think.

Minute's silence for 9/11, well, OK. Nationwide minute's silence for two schoolgirls: wrong.

'No adverts': ridiculous: most of the people in the WTC presumably relied on adverts. How about a day of only adverts, in sober tribute to them?

That's a bit how I feel, and it makes me uncomfortable to see all of these media outlets exploiting the grief of victims' families. That's why intend to avoid any 9/11 related events this week.

Do any of you think the events will be used to gain support for the war against Iraq? I mean it seems highly likely that this will be the intention, but how is this supposed to be done, in the real world?

The justification for killing civilians, for instance, is that it's regrettable but unavoidable - well OK I can actually buy that, but if so some official regretting might be an idea. A day where we remember all civilians killed for military or political ends, from 9/11 to Dresden to Israeli settlers to Afghan villagers, is surely not an unacceptable notion?

As for tomorrow, my headlights will be off. I don't turn on my headlights in rememberance of the bombings of London, Nagasaki, Kosovo, Palestine, Darwin or Baghdad so why do it for New York.

PF's point about it helping people forget rather than remember is all well and good but it feels like more of a case of pointing out the wrong way we use the word "remembrance" rather than a general judgement on the events themselves. The notion of a "sudden stunnedness" is pretty interesting but surely pretty unlikely too.

If people enjoy the schmaltz, does this make it ok? I guess I'm asking is the most popular event the best solution?

Why? What it refers to, as I made clear, is how people would feel if they suddenly remembered 9/11 for themselves, having NOT been reminded of it by a media / public culture which actually has the effect of draining emotion through overkill. That was very much my sense re. Princess Diana.

There seems to be sth of the devil's advocate in Ronan's performance on this thread.

As for whether I'm playing devils advocate, it's not really here nor there. I wouldn't have thought I was, but either way if you're willing to engage in a discussion it's not helpful to suggest I'm playing devils advocate.

Having seen your second post now, yes I think you may have a point, but my only failing was that I wasn't articulate enough in my initial post, and didn't really make my point well enough, apologies if that comes across badly/rudely/as if I'm playing devils adv.

Commercial exploitation of grief is distasteful is not a far cry from my glib "advertising is bad" comment I don't think, and even if it is it is, the inclusion of the word grief does not make it a new phenomenon. Commercial exploitation is everywhere, and anyway as I say where does it become commercial exploitation and stop being a way of forgetting or something of benefit to some people who watch it? It's all very subjective.

TRISHA Goddard, the talk show host, yesterday questioned the way September 11 has been singled out as a more tragic event than massacres and earthquakes around the world.

And she appeared to suggest people were more interested in the death toll in New York and Washington because the victims were predominantly white rather than black.

The presenter, who has visited New York for a Trisha special, to be screened on the first anniversary of the attacks, agreed that the events of that day were "awful", but thought they ranked alongside large-scale killings and natural disasters.

She said: "I spent a couple of years of my life in Africa and I have travelled a lot. All disasters are heart-rending, awful - all.

"Because this one went out live on television doesn't make it worse than Rwanda, where there were people being hacked to pieces."

The presenter, who visited New York with her team to see how it had affected the victims psychologically, said: "There is agony, there is tragedy, there are lots of companies that wanted to do five minutes silence at the time of the awful events of 9/11.

"And I agree - but on condition that we have 20 minutes silence when there are things like an earthquake in Guatemala, or the events in Rwanda.

Then there will be various events downtown, and the families of the victims will get to walk down to the actual site for the first time.

All this is fine and appropriate, in my opinion. Candlelight vigils, fine. But I'M GOING TO SCREAM if I have to see one more "he/she lost his/her husband/father/son/wife/mother a year ago, let's interview him/her and see how he/she is doing now." I stupidly turned on the tv this morning before coming in to work, and now I'm totally depressed. I mean, we can all imagine how they're coping, right? They're sad, upset, and trying to get on with their lives--and I don't mean to downplay their pain in any way. But I don't see what good it does for the media to make the entire country miserable and 100% focused on this for the whole week beforehand...

So I agree with Pinefox's idea of "sudden stunnedness"...being in NY last year at 9/11 is something I will never forget, and that memory would have far more power and meaning to me if I could keep it to myself this 9/11, instead of having it diluted by constant media coverage. They really don't need to worry that we'll forget about it, for god's sake.

Sorry for being so long and scattered...blame it on The Today Show.

What are "these" events people are so confidently describing? The chief New York one is supposed to involve political leaders of New York reading key political documents of American history. I'm a bit cynical about George Pataki reading the Gettysburg Address for a host of reasons (it's a couple months before an election, for example, and I'm not entirely fond of the idea of reading American patriotic writing when I think the target of the attack wasn't really "America" per se, and I could go on), but the politicians aren't going to be speechifying.

There's a lack of a public culture in America, and part of that is do to a lack of freely shared public space. It's a true, though utterly cliche, statement that Americans commune through watching the same television programs.

But snarky students are missing the point if they think it's about advertising etc. It's my understanding that for the key points of the day (moments commemorating given points on the Sept 11 timeline-- grotesque, I know, and I'm not going to be watching it, but in a way hardly specific to America), there won't be any advertising at all, and very little for the rest of the day. Most cable television channels aren't showing programming at all-- just "soft, contemplative music,"

As for Toraneko: I wouldn't be turning on my headlights either. The idea of compulsive, meaningless public demonstrations of one's concern for a given issue-- where the idea is to demonstrate a unanimity of belief-- is totally repellent. I'd feel the same way even without your point about equivalency of other horrors. Political gestures that depend on their ubiquity are utterly obnoxious (I'd say the same thing applies to moments of silence.)

Not that most people here would care, but frankly, I find the fact that the singing of "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" in the middle of the seventh inning of baseball games has been-- apparently permanently-- replaced by a somber listening to the Kate Smith's overbearing, sanctimonious "God Bless America" to be much more troubling. Something fun and participatory has been pushed out by an obnoxious, joyless song. "We" already sing the national anthem at every frigging sporting event-- do we need MORE tawdry displays of patriotic fervor? It's like someone realized there was public, mass behavior that didn't express love of country, and had to wedge it in, Forget being AMERICAN-- that's very French. As in the French Revolution.

Karl Krauss is alive, and staying with the da in Santry.

Unless them bagpipes march past your building!

Hmmm...why bagpipes? Good question. Maybe because they sound mournful?

LEE RYAN from Blue has made an astonishing outburst saying the attacks on New York have been “blown out of proportion.”

The stupid boy — there is no other expression for him — told The Sun that instead of feeling sorry for New Yorkers we should be worrying about WHALES and ELEPHANTS.

As his horrified mates from Britain’s top boy band tried to shut him up, Lee insisted on speaking out.

The 18-year-old, who actually WITNESSED the September 11 tragedy, said during a visit to The Sun’s HQ: “Who gives a f about New York when elephants are being killed?

“Animals need saving and that’s more important. This New York thing is being blown out of proportion ... I’m not afraid to say this, it has to be said and that’s why I’m the outspoken one from the band.”

The group’s bosses at Virgin were furious about Lee’s gaffe.

Lee and the rest of Blue — Duncan James, Antony Costa and Simon Webbe — were filming a video in New York at the time of the World Trade Center atrocities.

His outburst came as fellow band members recalled their horror at the tragedy.

Blue got to No1 with Too Close last month. Their new single, If You Come Back, is out on November 12.

But Tom that was FRIENDLY FIRE!!! HAVE YOU NO SHAME?!?!

The points about proportional response, to this and other large numbers of civilian deaths, are fair enough but perhaps misplaced - the events of 9/11 were certainly large enough to bear marking and remembering, and the problem is not with that but with other events being ignored. That should not happen the way it does, but trying to balance levels of monstrousness in some sort of league table is not a good approach at all. Lee out of Blue illustrates just how stupid this can become...

My discomfort is in the compulsory nature of the grief: that people can get abused, even physically, for not joining in in prescribed ways. And then there is the jingoism, and the anti-Islamic element which will not be wholly absent. Overall, I fully accept that people are going to mark this day, but I wish they could resist these downsides.

Actually, a lot of the people who died at the Trade Center and Pentagon locations at the time were not white, and were working class/service industry types.

And it is a shame that the media (at least the American media) covered the Rwanda events while they were happening. Although, given that New York and Washington are two of the modern world's media capitals, I'm not surprised that Western news is going to town on these events.

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~tewing/2002_09_08_singlesa.html#81445208

these 1st plane, 2nd plane, 1st tower, 2nd tower moments of silence = the terrorists win?

Is this the 6th anniversary or the 5th?

wood, not silverware

Is it being marked in any way, or are they only doing that on significant dates, 5/10/15 etc?

There's a ceremony at ground zero. Scmaltzy morning news programs are showing it.

both MTV and Vh1 are showing videos

did something weird to my hand last night, cant remember what.

MOVE ON

tv programs started about a week ago here and there've been 3 or 4 with more to come. sunday night saw this on ch4:

19:00 The Man Who Predicted 9/11
20:00 Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers (lol, do you see?!)

19:00 The Man Who Predicted 9/11

is this about nude spock

They're really ramping up the ad buy of those awful "I'm a soldier in Iraq protecting our country from another 9/11" commercials in my market.

who's "they"

That's a good question.

Co-worker greeted me this morning with "Happy Patriot's Day!" and explained he wants 9/11 to be a new national holiday because "we don't have enough and need to catch up with the rest of the world". WTF? I actually had thought well of this person before.

You can't make this up:

I got caught up in the MSNBC 9/11 replay this morning and missed Joe Biden starting today's Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing with Petraeus and Crocker.. It's just as well. Watching the 9/11 coverage, straight, is an infuriating activity — exponentially more so than watching Joe Biden. Every American should. And then read Norman Podhoretz.

I've always thought the best way to commemorate would be a National No-Fly Day (ground all the airplanes). It was so very quiet those days after the attacks.

I'm wondering if I would get attacked if I wore a "Forget 9/11" t-shirt.

Jaq: did they mean "don't have enough days off work", or "don't have enough patriotism"?

I don't think Brady & Moss need their own holiday.

Seriously, calling 9/11 "Patriots Day" is like baking a chocolate cake every year to mark the day your mom died.

http://www.joelogon.com/blog/2006/09/91399-never-forget.html

One of the homo weeklies in NY has a bar ad (photo of male model in red white & blue boxing gear) for "Patriots Day" drink specials tonight.

caek, not enough days off work. I made some lame joke back about it only being a New England holiday, but he didn't get it. PP, otm

I just checked on the calendar...it's Patriot Day. Not to be like 'dur dur hey guys,' it was just weirding me out that Patriots Day wasn't a possessive.

We celebrated in my class by having my class yell at the govt. prof for suggesting Bush was stupid. "Why would people elect Bush if he was stupid?" :(

genius logic there

I know...I said to my neighbor, "Because they're stupid." I am flipped out how many simple-minded conservatives are in the class! We live in a fairly liberal city (social programs-wise, anyway) in a Democrat state, and isn't college the time you're supposed to go crazygonuts rebel liberal yell mo mo mo?

people in liberal states rebel by getting all conservative maybe?

Anyway, this thread is a pretty useful indicator of the importance attached to this anniversary. (Not criticizing: I find the political uses of 9/11 distastaeful, and the media indulgence of the subject worse). So hurrah! It's become a date! No one was shedding tears last December 7 either...

dude, that's the day Roy Orbison died.

I just said "never forget" all day long.

I've always thought the best way to commemorate would be a National No-Fly Day (ground all the airplanes). It was so very quiet those days after the attacks.

No better way to commemorate 9/11 then by inconveniencing people who have places they need to get to.

Read Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, watched a bunch of conspiracy videos (and ones about Oklahoma City/McVeigh), ate tilapia.

http://joeljohnson.com/images2/September%2011%20remembered.jpg

parked at a wal-mart, no less

Re Rill Not Forget u_u

I remembered 9/11 by celebrating the coming of the Ethiopian millennium.

http://virgiltexas.com/post/23039458116/jim-davis-doesnt-remember-9-11#.UjDQvxY0pHx

#teamgarfield

I had no idea Garfield was still being made

i didn't either.

the comics are so depressing now though that i never look at them.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/9-11-mini-muffins.jpg

surely they should have stopped at 9:11 out of respect

that's what i would have done! and saluted with my muffin.

I hope they didn't burn, or crumble