Would you consider this infidelity?

About a year ago, I was in a relationship that was starting to head downhill, and we both knew it. Eventually, I went out of town for a week, during which we had a horrible and stupid fight. It was concluded by her saying that I shouldn't bother calling her again until I got back home, because we needed to talk. I was fairly certain that this meant that she wanted to end it, and honestly, I didn't really feel that averse to the idea. A few days later, I met up for lunch with an old friend of mine whom I'd always had some chemistry with, and we both wound up talking about our rapidly declining current relationships. By the end of the week, we had hooked up, and I had consciously decided that no matter what, I was finished with my girlfriend back home, and ready to call it quits as soon as I returned. When I arrived back, the first thing we did was go out to dinner, where we both agreed that it was over, and walked away as amicably as possible under the circumstances. I didn't see the point in mentioning what had happened over the trip, since it would only be cruel and wouldn't accomplish anything.

Since that time, I've remained with my friend I reconnected with, and have also tried to remain on good terms with my ex, who is aware that we're together. However, the other day, while chatting with my ex, the topic of our breakup came up, and I let loose that I had met up with my current partner during the trip, which she had not been aware of before. She then asked me point-blank to my face whether or not anything had happened then. As almost a year had past, I'm a horrible liar, and I prefer honesty, I answered that some things had. She was understandably hurt and said that I was the first one to cheat on her.

Here's my question to you guys - would you actually characterize this as anything other than "technical" cheating? I didn't do anything until I had decided to break it off, and upon returning home I did so absolutely as soon as I could see her to break it off. Just to be clear, at no point was I intimate with the ex after hooking up with the friend, nor did I attempt to continue on with the relationship with my ex while pretending nothing had happened. Her point is that as long as we weren't broken up, it was cheating, which is technically true, but I don't think that would make it any better if I had had the "decency" to break up over the phone 15 minutes before hooking up with my friend. My point of view is that if I had no intentions of continuing the old relationship after entering into the new one, and concluded the old one as soon as feasible, then I wasn't cheating. Basically, this comes down to a "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" interpretation...just minus any actual legal implications.

Anyway, just wanted to get some other thoughts from unbiased parties. Thoughts?

the spirit of the law is that you were cheating imo

counterpoint -- I hate "spirit of the law" arguments

Letter and spirit, it was cheating. If you're exclusive with someone and haven't ended the relationship/exclusivity, even if you were going to or it was about to happen or w/e, getting frisky with someone else is cheating.

cheating but on the lighter side of it

ps don't talk to exes ffs

Deciding your current relationship is over is, I suspect, what a lot of people do before they have sex with someone else. It's still cheating.

ps don't talk to exes ffs

good advice

I wish I had any of the problems you just described.

Also Darraghmac otm

Fidelity means keeping faith. The fact that you were quite ready, willing and able to end your prior relationship doesn't mean that you were not untrue to your commitment, it only means that you chose infidelity as the means by which to end that commitment and not some other means.

If it is true that you fully intended to break your relationship and end your commitment, then it is reasonable to say that the relationship was all but over. But, it is not reasonable to say that you chose an honorable or unhurtful means to finish it.

if it hurt her feelings all the same does it really matter if it was technically cheating or not? you still felt the need to hide it from her in the first place, so you knew all along that the hookup was at least different than what it would've been if you were properly broken up.

derail: i've always wondered how these breakup dinners go, like do the two people break up and then small talk until the check comes or does one person leave and expect the other one to pick up the check or what. and if you only want to break up, why do it over dinner when there's only one thing to talk about and everything else is either awkward or hostile, and the breakup itself should either end very quickly (ie amicably walking away) or disastrously (starting a screaming match in the middle of a restaurant). why do people stretch out a breakup talk over a whole meal?

or do you just go to chipotle or something

given how things worked out not sure why this is even something to fret over

zach otm

pps it doesn't really matter what ilx thinks about this

what's wrong with staying friends with your ex?

i can't wait to see 750 new answers by the time i get home from work tomorrow.

nothing wrong with staying friends with an ex, i got lots of friends i never see or talk to!

ha

eh what you did was mean in the sense that it's humiliating for your ex to know you immediately hooked up with someone else before you'd even bothered to end it with her. but the reality is that the relationship was over and you both knew it, even if it was unspoken. yes, it would have been better if you had ended it first before hooking up with someone else, but tbh i don't think a break-up ph call to her and then hooking up with the new person that night/next day/later that week would have left your ex feeling any better about the situation.

the thing is, is doesn't really matter what is 'right' or 'technically ok' in this situ, bc it won't make your ex feel better. just accept that what happened was pretty shitty for her and move on.

There's not really any argument to suggest that this is not cheating - it obviously is. You seem concerned, though, that the term 'cheating' automatically brands you as evil. It doesn't - it's not a good thing to do, whether or not you know your relationship is over, but you're not evil or a 'cheater-for-life'. Trying to explain yourself to the person you cheated on is a terrible idea, though, even if it's long over.

ps don't talk to exes ffs

I don't know why people keep saying shit like this when it's obvious that different people have different relationships with our ex-partners, and no rule like this ever works for everyone.

why say anything at all ever

cheating but on the lighter side of it

― deconstructive witticism (darraghmac), Sunday, March 18, 2012 9:09 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i've maintained relationships with exes. why not?

or do you just go to chipotle or something

lol!

You cheated but it's not th end of the world

Yea was abt to say the aame thing. Cheating happens. Eh.

^^^

given how things worked out not sure why this is even something to fret over

― buzza, Monday, March 19, 2012 12:16 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

given how things worked out not sure why this is even something to fret over

― buzza, Monday, March 19, 2012 12:16 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed, but it's still cheating

fretless (first) bass

the thing is, is doesn't really matter what is 'right' or 'technically ok' in this situ, bc it won't make your ex feel better. just accept that what happened was pretty shitty for her and move on.

― just1n3, Monday, March 19, 2012 4:28 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, it sounds like you are looking for something to make yourself feel better, or to make your ex's feelings less valid.

Nothing good could possible come of you and your ex arguing the semantics of whether this was cheating, btw.

seems pretty clearly infidelity to me. you had not formally ended the relationship you were in. there was a reasonable expectation that you would not get squishy with anybody else.

Nothing good could possible come of you and your ex arguing the semantics of whether this was cheating, btw.

Maybe a screenplay?

Nothing good could possible come of you and your ex arguing the semantics of whether this was cheating, btw.

also I was going to otm this and then I thought: well, the good that could come of such a discussion would be if the original poster were to say in the course of that conversation: you're right, that was cheating, I tried to work up some mental gymnastics that'd make it not be cheating but it was, and that was wrong of me & I apologize. which won't do any real good, either, but might feel validated for "the wronged party," as the terminology has it

I think the worst thing about cheating is the intention to deceive; you are guilty of this to a degree because you didn't intend to tell her what happened, however it doesn't compare *whatsoever* to someone who cheats on a partner they have no intention of leaving, and thus enters into deceitful behaviour on a daily basis, for as long as they are having an affair or even covering up a one night stand.

Still, everyone otm that you have to accept how hurtful this is to your ex, that it was a pretty rotten thing to do whether it was cheating or not, and not get defensive about it unless you want to make matters worse w/ her.

ts, as the wronged party here- being validated/apologised to or never hearing about it ps answer is the latter

Just curious, and this is all hypothetical, of course, but what if you would have returned home (after cheating) and the "talk" with your ex was surprisingly really productive and reversed things? Like, she admitted that she needed to change some things, told you how she was planning to do it, asked for your patience, told you she loved you, and asked for you to maybe change a few things as well?

But darragh, the wronger can never be certain of controlling what the wrongee gets to hear about.

xpost

this entire situation reminds me how tiresome i find wilful relationship ~drama~. what does it matter whether you can put it in the box marked "cheating" vs the one marked "non-cheating"?

to you i would say "stop trying to make yourself feel better or justify yourself retrospectively through pedantry and semantics"
to your ex-gf i would say "this relationship is OVER, why on earth do you care"

In a shocking turn of events, lex is a hard man.

Damn autocorrect decapitalized hardman and put in a space, further ruining an already badly formed joke.

so many relationship crises are really simple to resolve, it's just one or both of the parties doesn't want to face up to how they actually feel or what their actual issues are, and/or want to cause a scene

probably 75% can be solved with either

a) well DUMP HIM then
b) well TALK TO HIM then

*cryyyy* but i ~love him~ / but ~what will he think

DUMP HIM OR TALK TO HIM, AARGH

The ex was the one that got dumped, even if it was a horrible breakup they may not necessarily be over it. It's perfectly reasonable for them to want to know whether the original poster fucked someone else before breaking up with them, it's not wilful drama.

no no wait lex has more advice to share

my advice to you, iatee, is stfu and get out my face

hey lex tell us how hot girls only date asshole next

lex would make a great tv relationship counselor cause he 'tells it like it is' and 'doesn't hold back'

Dudes, chill.

ime most hot girls date perfectly nice boys, mostly because i try to avoid friendships with people prone to wilful relationship drama

No one can suppress their emotions, but everyone has the power to stop getting treated like a doormat. You are either running away from bad shit or running into it. Finger wagging is a good thing in this situation.

A lot of people think that thought replacement is better/easier than trying to deny impulsive thinking.

I guess this means next time you want to buy whiskey, tell yourself you are buying a flask of piss instead.

'supress your emotions' is plain bad advice imho. i don't mean you can't work on them and try to get over them, but in my experience that involves NOT resisting them, just feeling your emotions deeply, trying to figure out where they're coming from (hint: they're coming from INSIDE YOU and your past and your history and issues and personal brand of crazy), question them, investigate them, look at them for the messy crazy bullshit they are, and eventually (hopefully) letting them go.

for the sake of your dining partner, you might even consider doing all this processing in private. or in a journal. anything to avoid a finger-wag.

if you stuff them down without even looking at them they usually end up rancid and bitter and unresolved, imho.

It depends what kind of emotions! It's like the recent studies on PTSD -- people do not necessarily get over emotional responses to things by talking about them, but by moving past.

i'm british btw

I just liked the idea/image of you being like "Girl, you have to suppress that shit!".

sometimes people view this stuff as being a downer, or as not being understanding in some way

its better to view it as empowering - people nearly always have the power they just need to realize it

british people somewhat otm

I think I would say "drop" more than suppress, really. Suppress in an emotional context tends to refer to feelings that you've buried but may still be under the surface. Snuff those thoughts out like a lit match/.

mh, i think that coping with severe trauma is p different than the sort of emotions we're talking about itt, but i understand what you're saying.

also sort of an all american thing: "Get out of here and move forward. This never happened. It will shock you how much it never happened."

shouldn't necessarily suppress a feeling but no need to get married to it either

i'm not really talking about severe trauma elmo, more...the kind of self-pitying or over-analysing relationship type stuff this thread has been centred on that it's all too easy to wallow in

lex might be like the bobby knight of life coaches. this works well for some ppl, less so for others.

Sometimes it's better just to let people make mistakes and have the emotional crash, purge the bad stuff from the system, rather than walking away and risk slipping back in the future.

on the rare times when someone comes to me for advice, i've found it really clarifies things to just ask people what they want, what they would want to have happen ideally in a given situation.

^^^ my approach the last two years once I decided to stop giving romantic counsel that (a) he or she will politely ignore (b) exhausts me. Let your friend do the talking; that's all he or she wants, really – a sympathetic ear.

There's something true to the idea that the trouble you do have will expand to be the trouble you can handle. If you don't have much occupying your emotions/time and are prone to using your emotions as a sink for your energy... then emotions about others is a big target for it.

Results may vary, though. I am prone to weird anxiety and will overthink and dwell on relationships or anything else. I'm better now, but in the absence of anything to worry about I used to suddenly think about an argument from five years ago, or a car accident I was in, or some other random thing and worry about how I didn't resolve things correctly.

al and goole and matt dc otm. no one ever really wants advice they just want you to justify the choices theyve already decided to make.

i make a fierce old man face and tell ppl not to bother me 'less it's important, and i never get asked anymore a+ advice imo

al and goole and matt dc otm. no one ever really wants advice they just want you to justify the choices theyve already decided to make.

― max, Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:44 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

p much

friends suck

also sometimes when you ask people for advice they start giving you advice that sounds suspiciously like advice ~they~ ought to be taking/would like to hear and follow-through on

so very true, I think I told people "ditch the horrible crazy abusive lady" for a couple years

I am a 21-year-old gay male. For the past six months, I have been having an affair with a man in his mid-40s. After our first hookup, he told me he was married and had three children. etc etc

this stuff makes me bothered & judgemental about ppl in general but specifically the gay culture that excuses this brand of infidelity

i know ilx covered the topic some time ago but just to restate my position: ugh just ugh wtf is wrong w/ ppl

Giving society its cake and trying to eat yours too

could not possibly care less about the fidelity of some (perhaps imaginary) married man in his mid-40s that someone wrote to dan savage about. i just hope that they're all happy, whoever they are, and that things work out okay for everyone. sounds dicey.

what if they lied about the ages and it's your dad

makes you think

oh, it was my dad, believe me

I can think of a couple people I've met who have been casual about cheating or about hooking up with someone who is in a relationship, but have gotten really cranky and sadface when they have been cheated on. You'd think that would inform their perspective.

They just think the moral failing is on the part of the cheater, obviously. Which they perceive they were not.

Play on, players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTAlfag61kc

this is how I got my brother to stop smoking, I just smacked the cigarette out of his mouth and told him FUCKING STOP THAT SHIT, ITS BAD FOR YOU and just like that, cravings gone

If u did this to me I'd put the cigarette out in the middle of yr forehead.

seriously

yep

I think he may have been...joking.

so angry right now...need a cigarette

/this is how I got my brother to stop smoking, I just smacked the cigarette out of his mouth and told him FUCKING STOP THAT SHIT, ITS BAD FOR YOU and just like that, cravings gone/

If u did this to me I'd put the cigarette out in the middle of yr forehead.

I'ma look vaguely Hindu after I meet Trayce.

if u stand up she won't be able to reach your forehead

HEY NOW.

Also, I am going to assume mh is just being caringly concerned for my health, and not a prat :P

trayce, smoking is gross. knock it off.

i am very concerned about the effect your grossness is having on your health. knock it off.

seriously.
knock it off.

love, thermo thinwall.

I like how this thread hearkens back to pre-registration days when an anonymous somebody could start a thread, it would take off, and the OP would never be seen again.

Dear Thermo: STFU <3

an anonymous somebody

only u would know

You cheated but it's not th end of the world

Exactly. I don't think cheating should be a relationship breaker anyway. I haven't experienced it in my marriage (I hope so anyway!). But I have always said (and I hope I stick with this): it shouldn't necessarily end it. Of course it depends on the extra-marital relationship (one night stand,...).

People make mistakes.

ugh just ugh wtf is wrong w/ ppl

This should probably be the new board description as it describes like 75% of the threads contained within

self-loathing human

hey guys, i wanted to share some wisdom from kim kardashian with u all. this is from an interview she did with internet mogul JR Ridinger in 2010:

What are the biggest issues facing your generation today?

There are so many different issues my generation is facing. This certainly is not a huge issue but being the hopeless romantic that I am, I find that old fashion love is hard to come by now in days. Too much communication... no more sweet letters and cards, it's all e-mails and texting, so impersonal. I do know that life was definitely more simple even when I was growing up. No cell phones, myspace, facebook. Seems like monogamy is an issue.