Anglophone Accent Alignment

Americans, Aussies, and anglais:
How do you view the other accents in terms of similarity with each other/difference from your own?

For example, to my Yankee ears, Australian and British both are "over there," though some Aussie accents sound much closer to American than most British accents. My suspicion is that all "foreign" accents will be lumped pretty far from your own, though what would be interesting is how the regional dialects compare as well.

cork accents/donegal accents/northside dub accents/southside dub accents

'British' accent

He's not asking you two.

It's quite interesting that children in some countries don't seem to be able to distinguish greatly between the three when learning English as a foreign language and those in other countries seem to have a huge amount of difficulty. Australian seems to be the odd one out for kids in some parts of the world.

My London accent is probably just as different to a Glasgow accent as it would be to a Dublin or New York one, though.

American accents - generally quite different from, say, Aus / NZ / SA accents, but I find a lot of European speakers sound closer to American for obvious reasons. The stereotypical "French-English" accent of the Allo Allo variety is much less common among French speakers nowadays, with most French speakers sounding a lot more US.

Aus / NZ - not miles away from Cockney I guess.

South African - This is the most perplexing/exotic one for me, because it sounds like a cross between super-posh English and central-European, and therefore comes across like the speaker is talking in a second-tongue.

But put it this way, I wasn't conscious of the fact my mum speaks with a pronounced French accent until I was about 10.

The inability to distinguish between different sounds is an odd one. Polish people can't tell the difference in sound between the words "beach" and "bitch". Given the potential for embarrassment here I carefully enunciate "beach" and "bitch" but they still don't hear any difference.

The flipside of this is I can't tell the difference in pronunciation between the English word "swan" and "słoń" which is the Polish word for elephant, despite my wife's insistence that there is a difference.

It's quite interesting that children in some countries don't seem to be able to distinguish greatly between the three when learning English as a foreign language and those in other countries seem to have a huge amount of difficulty. Australian seems to be the odd one out for kids in some parts of the world.

I like thinking about accents and dialects though! I've found that I've become a lot more aware of them since moving from somewhere with incredibly low variation in accent to the UK where there are different accents within cities. For me it's just an exposure thing, like I'm pretty good at picking out general regions of accents in the UK or even the city in some cases... I got really excited a couple months ago when I recognised a Liverpudlian accent cos I hardly ever get to hear them.

I still prb can't tell the dif bwn Aus and NZ, and shamefully a lot of times I can't even tell the dif bwn Canadian and American ones unless the speaker slips in an 'out' or 'about' (and even that's not a guarantee...)

Irish and Scottish accents sometimes remind me of Canadian ones, esp in the Maritimes.

Ooh also I really like meeting people from Scandinavia cos their English accents are all over the place. I've met ones who speak with American accents, ones who speak with British accents, I know a Finnish girl who speaks with an Irish-ish accent, I worked with a Norwegian girl who had an Australian-ish accent, and one time I interviewed another Norwegian dude whose accent was incredibly cockney-sounding (like you'd prb think he was born and raised in east London somewhere). I guess maybe it just depends on the accents their teachers have in school or what they watch on tv? It's kind of fascinating anyway. Sorry if off-topic!

I hear the NZ accent as quite distinct from Australian, I think it's really fascinating that other ppl don't hear it. I guess it's an immersion thing, like when you're surrounded by Australian accents for a while and then a NZ accent pops up it really stands out...but if you've never been around either I guess I can see how they sound the same.

Once at Disneyland Mr Veg said 'Hey I think I heard some Australians further back in the line.' and I just looked at him and said 'They're from New Zealand. Can't you hear the difference?' and he was totally blankfaced as I tried to explain.
He hears it more now, since he has visited friends in NZ a few times.

I hear the variation in English accents but I'm not great at figuring out the geography of them. Like, I can't say oh that accent is from x city/region.

Regional US accents to me are fascinating: I love hearing people talk and then trying to figure out from the way they pronounce certain words where they're from.

Best accent I've ever come across was my Middle English tutor at University. Born and raised in Texas; grew up in Ireland; immigrated to Australia in his 30's. He had a combination Texas drawl, Irish brogue and Australian nasal twang that was just an absolute joy to listen to --- like jazz, where you listen to the drums for a while, then the trumpet, then the bass, etc...you could focus on the different parts of his speech, it was so cool.

whoa. kinda long there. sorry!

I didn't even get to rest-of-the-world accents, yikes

When I visited Australia, we took a train trip, and one of the porters was of Dutch origin and had learned English in Australia, so his accent was mind-boggling.

Aus / NZ - not miles away from Cockney I guess.

South African - This is the most perplexing/exotic one for me, because it sounds like a cross between super-posh English and central-European, and therefore comes across like the speaker is talking in a second-tongue.

― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Friday, April 13, 2012 2:16 PM (2 hours ago)

<3 these hilariousy awry dog latin posts

australia yeah a bit but srsly new zealand is quite different

afrikaaner accent is nothing like that! idk what to say....it's not far from dutch, obviously, and dutch speaker of english sound very little like austrians

There are so many accents in Britain it's hard to even address this. In the US there are all the Atlantic seabord accents, the various southern accents, some midwest accents, the west and then valley but that's about it. Every thrity miles the accents seem to change in Britain. As to alignment, the only times I get confused are when some middle class northern midlands accents sometimes sound like middle class Australian accents for a few minutes but usually there are enough cultural clues to elucidate the speaker's origins, that and I don't instictively hear the difference between kiwis and Australians though they are somewhat different kinds of tourists ime.

I have a very good friend who is from SA and all I need to do to remember their accent is think 'seth effrika'.

and one time I interviewed another Norwegian dude whose accent was incredibly cockney-sounding (like you'd prb think he was born and raised in east London somewhere)

I used to love seeing Steffen Iversen on TV talking in his amazing cockney-Norwegian accent! Scandinavian footballers, at least, seem to pick up British regional accents very quickly.

'British' accent

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Friday, April 13, 2012 12:39 PM (4 hours ago)

this is like parallax rly, from a distance there could be such a thing as a 'british accent'

glasgow/teuchter accents are only half 'british' anyway because they derive from populations who largely spoke gaelic in the recent past

There's a wine-shop in Cort3 Mad3ra outside San Francisco -- friends of mine live across the street and told us it's run by an Australian guy and they can never understand what he said.

I took it as a challenge and went over to buy something from him. They failed to mention that the dude was Lebanese with a thick combo Lebanese/Australian/American accent...so we're talking double-fast cadence, but long emphasis on certain random words...it was awesome to hear. He asked me a question and I was so fascinated I just looked at him like, 'huh'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sepBXYEjO6A

Thank God VG google proofed CM!

half 'british' anyway because they derive from populations who largely spoke gaelic in the recent past

Still closer to Brythonic than English...

My gf was in Scotland last year for her brother's graduation and she went down to the corner to buy some wine and came back and told him she hadn't been able to understand a word the cashier said. Her brother is very good w/languages and accents and understands the Scots far better than I but he laughed and pointed out that the guy at the liquor store was Polish and spoke with a Polish/Edinburgh hybrid accent that was truly rara avis.

Aus / NZ - not miles away from Cockney I guess.

South African - This is the most perplexing/exotic one for me, because it sounds like a cross between super-posh English and central-European, and therefore comes across like the speaker is talking in a second-tongue.

― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Friday, April 13, 2012 2:16 PM (2 hours ago)

<3 these hilariousy awry dog latin posts

australia yeah a bit but srsly new zealand is quite different

afrikaaner accent is nothing like that! idk what to say....it's not far from dutch, obviously, and dutch speaker of english sound very little like austrians

― The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Friday, 13 April 2012 16:44 (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, I know a few NZ'ers and like many, I can rarely tell the difference between theirs and Aussie accents unless they say something like "chucken" or "kutchen". The only times I've been able to distinguish a bigger difference is when the Australian girl turned up in an episode of FOTC. There is a distinct difference. Of course, there are differences between various regions of Australia. Some places are very very near London-English, others more pronouncedly Aussie.

I wasn't talking about Afrikaans, I meant South African English, which is a mix of colonial English and Dutch accents I guess, yeah, but it does sound like someone speaking a second language to my ears. I know a fair few SA'ers but there's just something about the speech pattern that sounds stilted, Euro, non-standard about the accent.

i can't tell the difference b/w Aussies and NZers wr2 accents. i can distinguish both from British accents, though.

i can't understand Glaswegians, but have little difficulty understanding people from Edinburgh.

Yeah I'm British and have trouble sometimes distinguishing a gentle Aus accent from some UK regional accent.

I seem to confuse people a lot - my accent is basically mild South Dublin tending towards Wicklow, but I've often been identified as American or South African, even Dutch (in Dublin!). Even here in England, only about half the people I meet get that I'm Irish without having to ask.

I have relatives in Kerry that I can barely understand.

half of ireland think you talk like a brit tbh

SA sounds unlike dutch-english imo, more clipped w/out dush mush, almost more australian tbh

u h8 dutch ppl tho

i only ever meet really right wing ones tbf, i mean much more so than me like.

My dad dated a dutch millionairess for a while there but ballsed it up ffs dad imo

shamefully a lot of times I can't even tell the dif bwn Canadian and American ones unless the speaker slips in an 'out' or 'about' (and even that's not a guarantee...)

This is pretty common surely. (I mean, they use Canadian actors on American TV and films all the time. Sarah Chalke, e.g., never changes her "sorry"s or "mum"s.) I never really heard the difference until I lived in the US and dated an American. I didn't even know the difference between "cot" and "caught" until someone spelled it out for me. (Now it jumps out.)

I think I've gotten pretty good at distinguishing these and still some Northwestern US accents, e.g. Joel McHale's, sound virtually indistinguishable from Canadian to me.

Irish and Scottish accents sometimes remind me of Canadian ones, esp in the Maritimes.

Only in the Maritimes though, right??

NZ accents I've heard do sound noticeably different from Australian to me. However, I'm sometimes not sure whether some accents are English or Australian. I'm surprised that Australian would sound closer to American than to British for anyone. (American and British accents do vary widely though.)

(xpost: Some SA accents do sound very Dutch/English to me.)

Accents in the USA appear to have homogenized as they moved west, because westerners were drawn there from every other region of the country. I view my own accent (Oregonian) as being very similar to the accent used by televison news readers, iow, a sort of even-tempered, placeless accent. I expect California is even more so.

Also 'cause a lot of the migration came after the invention of radio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_English

shamefully a lot of times I can't even tell the dif bwn Canadian and American ones unless the speaker slips in an 'out' or 'about' (and even that's not a guarantee...)
This is pretty common surely. (I mean, they use Canadian actors on American TV and films all the time. Sarah Chalke, e.g., never changes her "sorry"s or "mum"s.) I never really heard the difference until I lived in the US and dated an American. I didn't even know the difference between "cot" and "caught" until someone spelled it out for me. (Now it jumps out.)

Irish and Scottish accents sometimes remind me of Canadian ones, esp in the Maritimes.
Only in the Maritimes though, right??

What's the cot/caught thing? They are the same pronunciation to me.

To me too. (And I think Joel McHale would agree with us!) However, listen to how this woman pronounces them at around 1:45:

http://www.pronuncian.com/materials/podcasts/Episode_67.aspx

(If you watch the earlier part of the video, she actually gives a physical breakdown of how to make those sounds.

In my englishers accent there's a distinct difference between caught and cot. But not draw and drawer, which if you go further north there will be. I've noticed my accent changes completely and increasingly so if I'm drunk. Sober, I'm fairly RP English, drunk it suddenly lurches round estuary, northern Irish, Scottish, French, northern English (where that's from I don't know) - a proper mess and I don't know why.

Xpost, her pronunciations of 'topic', 'podcast', 'collar' etc sound pretty American to me. I'd pronounce them all with an 'aw' sound.

Though my accent isn't really indicative of my part of Canada since it's been sort of tempered by living abroad. The intonation has changed and I've been accused of pronouncing the word 'bus' with a Brummie accent :/

What's the cot/caught thing? They are the same pronunciation to me.

I speak with a Upper Midwest/North Central U.S. dialect, and there is a clear difference to me between "cot" and "caught." I pronounce the former as "caht" (vowel sound like "father") and the latter as "cawt" (vowel sound like "all").

Ha, "father" and "all" have the same vowel sound for us, jaymc. You have two vowels where we only have one.

her pronunciations of 'topic', 'podcast', 'collar' etc sound pretty American to me. I'd pronounce them all with an 'aw' sound.

Yeah, exactly. Her short "o" is closer to my short "a". The Midwest/Great Lakes "cot" is pretty close to my "cat".

Ha, "father" and "all" have the same vowel sound for us, jaymc. You have two vowels where we only have one.

Argh, I even used the words in the pronunciation guide at the beginning of the dictionary!

And the Britishers have different vowels for all three of "cot", "caught", "father". At least, I do, and I can't immediately think of a British accent which doesn't.

There are South Africans I've mistaken for Australian on first hearing, and South Africans who do the "Seth Effrika" vowel thing, and South Africans I've mistaken for Dutch.

But I think I'm getting deafer to accents cz a few times lately I've had to stop and think whether someone sounds Northern, or I realised after like 3 years that a guy I know with a Scottish name actually has a (softened but recognisable) NE English accent when I'd mentally been filing any not-Southern-English aspects under "dude must be Scottish, he totally has a Scottish name"

(should have learnt not to pay attention to names when a coworker with an Irish name turned round and said to me "who's this Scene guy who's emailed me?" and pointed at the name "Sean" on his screen)

In the last verse of the first Pink Floyd hit "Arnold Layne", Syd sings "Now he's caught / A nasty sort / of person". Good thing he was British, as "caught" and "sort" don't even come close to rhyming in any US dialect I'm aware of.

I can understand most Canadian and UK dialects easily, but a Geordie accent trips me up completely; sounds more like a foreign language to me than a mere inflection of English.

I got to a point during my hitching years where I could tell where people came from in the UK pretty accurately by their accent, seemed to be to the closest city at least.
& it does vary greatly.
I'd recognise factors that I don't think I could quite put names to but would help differentiate. They do change markedly over the course of even say 50 miles difference. Leeds to Newcastle, Leeds to Manchester, Manchester to Liverpool etc etc.
Definitely North to South in the UK are markedly different.

I'm not as good with Irish accents but could be down to less familiarity with knowing exactly what sound comes from where over here. I can't tell Belfast from Donegal apart as easily, both are Northern though.
& Cork has 2 very noticeable ones. One seems to be the source of the stereotypical Jamaican accent(probably historically as well as phonetically) & the other is very like the welsh lilt.

Dublin has several distinct ones which might be down to class as much as geography, though I think Tallaght and Finglas may be somewhat different as much as either would be to somewhere on the more middleclass Southside of the city

I can only dream of being good enough at a foreign language to spot accents in it (like I was finding a Bavarian film kind of hard to follow and a Swiss German speaker on TV completely incomprehensible but I couldn't have told you where either was from out of context - at first I thought the Swiss guy was speaking Dutch)

but I was thinking the other day how all the Polish people I know have different accents in English, and wondering if it was regional, or class-related, or just down to where their English teacher(s) came from or what ratio of US:UK culture they picked English up from

re: cot v caught (etc)
ILX accent/homophone survey

It was interesting to find out in the mid 80s that a lot of Germans had American accents cos they were learning their English from the presence of soldiers on american bases across the country.

Good thing he was British, as "caught" and "sort" don't even come close to rhyming in any US dialect I'm aware of.

There's also the joke in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland: "We called him a tortoise because he taught us".

It's funny, the two native Polish people I've (knowingly) encountered spoke such fluent English that I'd never have guessed they weren't originally Anglophonic.

Bakersfield English and the "Valley Girl" dialect of the San Fernando Valley have their roots in the Ozark English of Arkansas and Missouri, and first developed when many people from the Ozarks migrated to California in the 1930s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNOU9YvTes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALvqFJaXmkw

tried to find bakersfield accent, but just turned up a bunch of hyundai ads.

i've recently met some Polish immigrants whose accents sounded more Germanic than Slavic. these were younger people though (in their late 20s) and an anomaly, i'm certain.

It might depend on where they're from in Poland. There are definitely different dialects of Polish but i don't think they're as markedly different as London / Geordie, etc.

I have known ppl w/ a bakersfield accent

Recently learned that there is such a thing as an Albany (NY) accent. It's a slight variation on the Vermont accent, which itself oddly bears no relationship whatsoever to any of the other New England accents.

i can tell what village ppl are from down home just by the way the pronounce gallagher tbh

Aus / NZ - not miles away from Cockney I guess.

Havent read the whole thread yet but this is otm.

The one British accent that jumps out (for me) as similar to the broader Australian accents is Birmingham. I think it's the diphthongs that do it. No one else has ever agreed with me so ymmv.

Those who align Aus accents with the US are probably hearing the younger Australians who absorb themselves in waaaaaaaaay too much US TV/film/culture and pump out a fully US-distorted Aus accent, right down to using US-specific grammatical constructions that have no local precedent.

The way I hear other accents (so hang an 'imo' off everything here):

- Inner-city North Island NZ is very similar to inner-city Aus (mainly east coast), but rural NZ is unmistakably unique and couldn't be anything else.

- European English-speaking (first language) Sth Africans (there's probably a better name for those people) sound to me quite close to NZ in some ways. The primarily Afrikaans speakers esp. in the Cape Town area don't sound like anything else on the planet when they speak English.

- A large number of American accents/speakers are shrill in a way that probably doesn't make sense to (a) Americans (obv) or (b) the Australians I mentioned up-post who live and breathe US culture. afaict the voice projects via somewhere nearer the nasal cavity (matron) than most (all?) other English accents.

btw I've not gone into Irish/Singaporean/Zim/etc accents because I am going to the zoo

One seems to be the source of the stereotypical Jamaican accent(probably historically as well as phonetically)

would you like to more? a: y

i grew up with a rotten foreigner and like dog latin it wasn't until my adolescence that i could even countenance that her accent was not-of-america. i still can't hear it mostly, despite having been raised (by said mother) to at least try to recognize accents. it's most noticeable to me in turns of phrase, which are cartoonishly irish/lanc at times, i guess. not sure how a horse wedged between a couple bread vans would even be manageable, let alone palatable, but w/e

I'm beginning to wonder if the recency of British colonization has anything to do with the (lack of) similarities among the main US/Aus/UK dialect groups as well.

i grew up with a rotten foreigner and like dog latin it wasn't until my adolescence that i could even countenance that her accent was not-of-america.

i was also about 10 before i realised that my father, native spanish speaker who learned english as a child, had a strong foreign accent.

South African - This is the most perplexing/exotic one for me, because it sounds like a cross between super-posh English and central-European, and therefore comes across like the speaker is talking in a second-tongue.

This is a very tricky one to generalise, because there's a noticeable split between e.g. those from the Western Cape and those from Gauteng, and drilling down from there, those whose first language is English and those whose first language is Afrikaans, and drilling down from there, those whose first language is Zulu or Xhosa or one of the Sothos, etc etc.

Some white Sth Africans from the Sandton area absolutely sound like caricatures of posh British colonials, but some couldn't sound further from that. When I was there I spent a lot of time with some Afrikaans-native speakers from Centurion (Gauteng) who didn't sound remotely posh or central European, and atm I have an English-native work friend from Centurion who is very well spoken but doesn't sound at all Brit-colonial.

I was told at a young age that the most horrible accents were n Irish and south efrican but only the former has held to be true. kinda love weirdo afrikaans/inglish accents, just want to put my elbows on the table and say "go on..."

Recently learned that there is such a thing as an Albany (NY) accent. It's a slight variation on the Vermont accent, which itself oddly bears no relationship whatsoever to any of the other New England accents.

Really? I always thought that there was a pretty straightforward continuum in NY state where the accents start out Midwest/Great Lakes (Buffalo/Rochester) and get progressively more East Coast-ish as you drive east, with Syracuse at about the halfway point. I've only known a couple of people from Albany but they seemed to fit the trend.

also my animosity to northern accents was fueled by having a horrible harpy of a boss, though my mom and her bros would like to believe that it's born from a strong grounding in republican sensibilities

I work with a couple of Euro- South Africans, and AA is right, their accent has a lot of NZ similarities

xp ppl in the Kingdom have their own accent, it's weird

love a downeast accent btw. one of the funnier/classist things about a fancy education was ppls ability to lapse into their regional dialect while drunk. problematic to be sure, but interesting all the same

totes agree about the NZ/SA thing, they're both kinda clipped

I've only known a couple of people from Albany but they seemed to fit the trend.

The Albany accent is very slightly "southern" -- the Vermont accent is more pronounced in its "southernness." The Albany accent seems to be dying out, as I've never heard it in anyone younger than 50.

The Vermont accent seems to be by far the most distinctive of the New England accents, though. You'd never confuse someone from Vermont with someone from Maine or Connecticut by their accent.

totes agree about the NZ/SA thing, they're both kinda clipped

― catbus otm (gbx), Sunday, 15 April 2012 08:21 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

clupped

precisely

The Vermont accent seems to be by far the most distinctive of the New England accents, though.

no way! mainers for sure

I dunno, I always found Maine and New Hampshire accents to be (relatively) interchangeable.

btw why are all the people in the YT accent tag vids all girls?

I just found this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ozrfL_-QKk

I get SA and NZ confused all the time, they both mux vawels around

Holy shit, is that accent still common in MD?

Oh, yeah. I used to live in Northern Va., and had a friend named Dave who had it even worse than in that video. Gina Schock from the Go-Go's has a pronounced Bawlmer accent. And there's this guy who does dumbass YT videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtd6Rs35tcc

xp: oh god yes.

based on my conversations w/ family from Baltimore: yes, the old-school/The Wire-stylee Bawlmer accent still exists, and thrives. as does its close relative, the old-school Philly accent.

ppl always think i'm american which bothered me at first but all my irish friends get it even ones with like thick kerry accents so i just realised that people in london don't know what irish accents actually sound like. either people get it straight away and only hear it or they can never hear it. its either/or.

I'm basically engaged in a constant fight with my wife and mother-in-law over teaching my son how to pronounce things. I'm pretty sure I've lost "toilet (tullet)" but won "oil (uhl)".

I've noticed that, although you usually read about it as the "Bawlmer" accent, most people pronounce the word "Bawlnimer".

well, "bawlnimower" maybe.

I frequently get asked where in Ireland I'm from, making me suspect that many people in central Scotland are accent-deaf when it comes to distinguishing between the north of Scotland and Ireland, which (naturally) sound very different to me. I have developed a bit of a West of Scotland twang having lived down here for over 20 years, but my natural accent is like a rougher version of Karen Gillan's (the only prominent Invernessian I can think of). I don't sound remotely Irish.

ppl always think i'm american which bothered me at first but all my irish friends get it even ones with like thick kerry accents so i just realised that people in london don't know what irish accents actually sound like. either people get it straight away and only hear it or they can never hear it. its either/or.

All this. I think that people often have a fixed idea of what an "Irish" accent sounds like and once you fall outside that people just start going through their mental list of other nationalities that speak English...

^ yes. I expect because I don't sound like West of Scotland Scottish, which is what a lot of people think all Scottish people sound like, Irish is the next best guess. Heaven help any Aberdonians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5RqXrLS0IY

ive never heard her before....id have guessed she was from the east of scotland, but not as far north as the highlands

glasgow dialect is the best and im trying to learn it atm

Here in Ohio I've long since lost the battle regarding proper pronunciation of the short "I" sound, so I'm about the only person who doesn't say "melk," "pellow," etc.

I was talking to an old guy in the pub a few weeks back and I couldn't figure his accent out at all. I thought maybe he was Irish but had lived in London for a really long time and it had mutated his accent. He turned out to be from Newfoundland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8rIbitJAbQ

When I did 411 directory assistance there was this Newfoundlander who would call occasionally and I couldn't understand a single word he said. Understanding him was even more difficult than understanding these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z_O4ImvpCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL6aDrzs3Fs

Gorlumme you mean you can't understand those 2? what are you innocent?

Rather straightforward I would think. .

I can tell that they want to fight?

glasgow dialect is the best and im trying to learn it atm

Mibbes Boaby Gillespie can help ye.

I am constantly being asked if I'm from Ulster by people from Southern Ireland

I can tell that they want to fight?

yes, with the hands. now, like a fuckin' man.

& no gloves on. & have interesting ideas about queueing and rat poison