U.S. Postal Service: salvageable or doomed?

Taibbi wrote about this last week... I didn't know/forgot the bold part:

"The U.S. Postal Service is staring down the same barrel trained at our magazine and newspaper businesses, i.e. its revenue model is being wiped out by the internet.

But politics also plays a huge part in this. In 2006, in what looks like an attempt to bust the Postal Workers' Union, George Bush signed into law the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006. This law required the Postal Service to pre-fund 100 percent of its entire future obligations for 75 years of health benefits to its employees – and not only do it, but do it within ten years. No other organization, public or private, has to pre-fund 100 percent of its future health benefits.

"No one prefunds at more than 30 percent," Anthony Vegliante, the U.S. Postal Service's executive vice president, told reporters last year.

The new law forced the postal service to come up with about $5.5 billion a year for the ten years following the bill's passage. In 2006, before those payments kicked in, the USPS generated a small profit. Not surprisingly, the USPS is now basically broke.

The 2006 law also bars the Postal Service from offering "nonpostal services," which means the USPS can't, say, open up a bank, or an internet cafe, or come up with any new entrepreneurial ideas to generate new income, as postal services do in other countries.

The transparent purpose of this law, which was pushed heavily by industry lobbyists, was to break a public sector union and privatize the mail industry...."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/dont-let-business-lobbyists-kill-the-post-office-20120423

doomed

I understand why you bolded the passage you did, but the pre-funding requirement is even more shocking to me.

This law required the Postal Service to pre-fund 100 percent of its entire future obligations for 75 years of health benefits to its employees – and not only do it, but do it within ten years.

this seems deeply insane xp

Yeah, Congress has created a political problem and dressed it as an economic one, but USPS is probably doomed. Of course, one ironic upshot is that UPS and FedEx will have to cease serving customers in some rural and out-of-the-way places, since USPS is their last-mile carrier. But hey, the free market, right?

yup

salvageable, mainly because its a legit public good and thus doesnt need to be economically feasible.

The problem with going 100% to private delivery companies like UPS and FedEx is that they are not required to serve the entire country, as PhilD said. The more you cut off rural dwellers, the more you create tiers of citizenship, with the rural people turning into ignorant, poverty-stricken peasants, living in degradation. Not quite the thing, imo.

a national subsidy for mailing shit to people in the midddle of nowhere isn't really a legit public good

^^ needs more thought

yeah wth

yeah lets take away their schools too! xpost

I can't figure out your politics sometimes iatee

he hates people that dont live like he does

post very much in character

i mean thats the cliff notes version i am sure it is more nuanced but

actually those ignorant, poverty-stricken peasants in rural areas need to factor the lack of mailable shit access into their cost-benefit analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkEvLjj_rqc

^ a little video I'd like you to watch iatee

farmers should quit growing food, move to the city and work in private equity

again w/ the farmer thing

almost nobody is a farmer!

and yet we still pretend like half the country is

You can farm just as easily in queens, amirite?

literally as i clicked on this thread a mail truck stopped hard in front of my window. the mailman got out to retrieve a box that had escaped the truck and was lying in the middle of the street.

almost nobody is a farmer!

― iatee, Wednesday, May 2, 2012 4:32 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's why they all live out in the middle of nowhere!

Mandatory victory gardens should have been part of Obamacare

fewer than 1% of americans are farmers

iatee, the numbers of farmers are shrinking, but they are still required, bcz, you know, food.

yes

all those people in the middle of nowhere are just getting books sent in the mail that teach them how to build bombs to blow up post offices anyway.

I do think its kind of terrifying to start measuring these sorts of things per economic viability tho - its a sad insight into the creepy economic mental sludge that is going on across the board in politics these days, and makes it even clearer that the neocons have won even while losing.

do you even know what the word neocon means

mail service is a constitutional issue. if you live in the middle of nowhere you still get, like, due process. sending off a letter is the same deal. so what if it's expensive!

all those people in the middle of nowhere are just getting books sent in the mail that teach them how to build bombs to blow up post offices anyway.

Get govmt out of my Medicare!

yes you insufferable little dude xxpost

nah the congress has the *ability* to create a postal service, not a requirement

http://gaffngun.com/forums/images/smilies/avatar54063_2.gif

l-r: ilx threads that even obliquely involve rural vs urban, iatee

The internets are making everything else privatizable, it seems

iatee just curious b/c I have not paid attention to this kind of shitstirring before -- have u lived in a rural area?

is there anything in section 8 that congress "shall have the power to" do, that it doesn't?

iatee, you realize that that's the whole point, that there's a minority of people who wouldn't be able to get service in the free market, but who need it, and whose services, in turn, we need.

Anyway "1% of Americans" is kind of a dumb stat to cite. It's more like 3+% of the labor force.

no I considered moving to one but then I remembered I was not a farmer xp

If the real point is to kill the unions and prove 'they don't work', the Republicans could just mandate that UPS and FedEx, etc..., serve rural areas which they could argue is a justifiable use of the commerce clause and totally wouldn't make them look like Mammon-worshipping hypocrites.

iatee what about all the people that need to live in rural areas to serve those farmers - grain silo storage/operators, farm implement sellers, harvest season laborers, grocery stores, etc etc?

the post office is kinda crazy for sending letters thousands of miles for, like, 50 cents. who does that? crazy people, that's who.

the post office is kinda crazy for sending letters thousands of miles for, like, 50 cents. who does that? crazy people, that's who.

^

p simplistic view of what the post office does imo

tbh guys theres plenty of decent stuff to talk about here and i know its hard to resist but this is kind of a do not feed the iatee sorta situation

They could just order their John Deere combines off of Amazon. Except nobody would deliver them. RIP farmers.

Post offices now close for lunch, so plan accordingly

yeah, I found that out recently.. and a european LONG lunch at that, possibly even a siesta in a big cart of mail

does that mean they are literally having one person staff the post office?

Yeah, I'm not sure if they close for lunch everyday, or just when there's literally only one person in the station - pretty annoying though

My local post office closes for lunch - yep only one employee.

So my brother is proposing to his girlfriend. And the engagement ring is coming today, requires a signature, and he's working. He asks if I can go to his house and sign for it and leave.

Said ok, but was anxious because the mail service where he lives is notoriously bad. They once applied a mail forwarding request I made for my father at my address and my mail started going to their place.

Sure enough, something goes wrong. My bro msgs me to say the package shows delivered, did I get it? No, nobody's been to the door, nothing outside. Shows as signed for by my bro's initials.

My guess is to avoid being dinged for a late delivery, the mailperson marked it delivered, fabricated the signature, then figured they'd go to your house, hope you were there, and if not, leave a note on the door. Because of the ridiculous workload mailpersons have, they do this all the time (they did it to me at my old place even before DeJoy).

The other theory is they put it in the mailbox and fraudulently marked it as signed for. But since it's an engagement ring, my brother is freaking out like a 12 year old.

I went outside to see if I could see the mail truck. There it was, at the front of the community, and moving towards his place, so I figure ok, they'll be by shortly.

Here's where I got completely stupid. I didn't want to approach the mail person as I don't live in that community and it's gonna sound strange, me asking them for a package for someone else. But I also didn't want to assume they would come by the house and have them leave, as my brother didn't leave his mail key to check the box.

So I got in the car and drove to the street the truck was on and after I saw it was clear that they were still delivering on the route towards my brother, I parked and walked back to his house. Sure enough, they pulled up and stopped outside his house so I stayed outside so I could sign for it. But then the driver left.

Now my brother is begging me to flag them down and I'm asking if he's sure there's no mail key in the house and no, there's not. I told him they were driving away and I didn't want to tail the driver as that would creep them out.

But then I figured they would stop to deliver another package and I could get out and politely ask them about the package. So I found them, and they were going the opposite direction. Dammit. So I waited 30 seconds, turned around and went back to see if I could catch them. Now they're again going the opposite way.

So now I've figured out that I obviously freaked them out and they're trying to get away from me. Exactly what I wanted to avoid. Brother is hounding me about it and I'm like DUDE I'M GONNA GO TO JAIL IN A MINUTE.

So I went to the mailroom at the front of the community to pause and figure out what to do next, like going to his work to get his mail key.

Mail person is parked there as I arrive, right across from me. Fuck. She is staring right at me, intently. She starts taking pics of my car and is clearly talking to someone. FUCK.

Alright so I've completely made a mess of this and terrified the poor woman. I don't blame her at all. It's why I hadn't wanted to do it.

So I decided to get out of the car slowly and talk to her from a distance rather than approach the truck. After all, I'm 6'0, 225 pounds, heavily tattooed, and unkempt and looking agitated due to the situation. She gestures at me with a shrug, basically saying "what the FUCK do you want?". Which is fair.

So finally I explain the situation and she is relieved when I explain I just have a question about a package. She offers to help, and then retrieves the package. Sure enough, another mail carrier (I guess they have two because it's a big community) delivered the package to the box and fabricated the signature to make it look like a door delivery. Thanked her, apologized, and went on my way.

So yeah, i completely fucked this up, and unintentionally terrified a mail person today. Shoulda just told my brother to stfu, grabbed his mail key, and checked the box.

this story has big george costanza energy

Lol

Damn.

Spent a good chunk of postage to make sure an overseas package got shipped and delivered on time. Got a notice a few days back with a "return to sender" notice on tracking with no explanation. Just got the returned package in the mail. Reason for return - no customs form declaration. Clearly attached to the package - a customs form declaration!!

This is as much if not more another sign of the general unraveling of society, but reportedly there have been a number of armed robberies of mail deliverers here in the last couple of weeks. Gunmen just run up in broad daylight and demand packaged and master keys. That's fucked up.

when you're gonna misdeliver one of my packages, absolutely make sure it's my pills.

some days i feel like a single-issue voter, and that biden doesn't deserve my vote for not immediately ousting this piece of shit crony dejoy on day one.

he doesn't have the power to do so unfortunately

I can't say I'm a fan, but his tenure has had some welcome surprises.

Talking to my neighborhood postal worker (who both lives here and delivers here, which seems like a great setup), it sound like there's a rash of attacks on postal workers where the attackers steal their building/group mailbox keys and then steal packages. Sounds like a very unpleasant time to be a postal worker.

Yeah, I've heard that in Oakland a bunch.. I caught a dude red-handed trying to break into my apartment's mailboxes, and he had a ring of keys instead of a screwdriver

I feel like there's been a crazy spike in postal crimes in general. Check fraud has definitely gone up, and it's tied to mail theft. It's gotten so bad, I never mail anything unless I'm doing it INSIDE the post office into a kiosk or slot that's either constantly watched (i.e. within their tellers' view) or going into the area they're stationed at where they can see the mail being dropped in. Last year, some guy came into my local post office to tell them someone was trying to steal mail from their outside boxes using some kind of sticky thingie (and fled before he could be caught), and they told him "we're very aware of him." Not in a blaisé way, it was kind of implied they were doing something about it (what, I don't know).

U.S. Postal Service: salvageable or doomed?

I can't say I'm a fan, but his tenure has had some welcome surprises.

― birdistheword, Friday, January 5, 2024 12:30 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

counterpoint: go fuck yourself

There are definitely some good things about the USPS recently. Their newly introduced Ground Advantage rate is cheaper and seemingly quicker for sending packages domestically. When I have to ship CDs, I'm paying about a dollar less per package than I used to and things are arriving in the same amount of time.

xp I'm not a fan of DeJoy's austerity plan - it's going to needlessly slash jobs and delay service - but he was also instrumental in getting the Postal Service Reform Act passed into law. That codified six-day delivery into law and ended the disastrous federal mandate that the USPS pre-pay the health plans for retirees, neither of which is a small thing. So right back at you.

I feel like there's been a crazy spike in postal crimes in general.

A lot of mail boxes have vanished here, like months ago. I think it's because crooks figured out a way to wash signatures off of checks, so they were stealing from the boxes in search of those (and who knows what else). Supposedly more secure replacements are on their way, eventually.

I actually talked with a carrier about this - there have been cases where they found boxes sawed or cut-through. So in addition to upgrading locks (like maybe a double-validation system), they're hoping to make the physical mailbox tougher to slice or puncture. It's really crazy how it's come to this.

he doesn't have the power to do so unfortunately

The Postal Board where he's nominated the majority does, tho

“checks”?

<cheques notes> yep.

Some people get paid via actual checks in the mail — idk if that’s what’s in question but checks in the mail are a v real thing fwiw

Also my mom got frauded via a check recently. It’s not insignificant imo.

Literally waiting on two important ones right now.

And for every pension I administered, there was 10% of our population who got paper checks

new NALC contract sux, I'll be voting no

What are the most onerous sticking points?

In other news, I just learned that the USPS has an extensive array of merch:

https://store.usps.com/store/gifts

I ordered this really nice Pete Seeger commemorative stamp poster:
https://www.usps.com/ecp/asset/images/580450-Z1.jpg

I forgot about USPS merch - I think "first day of issue" merch was once popular among stamp collectors. I collected them for a very brief time (like two years) when I was in grade school, and it was actually a really great way of learning geography and to a lesser extent history. I got this huge introductory pack of used stamps from around the world, and it was pretty amazing when you're completely unfamiliar with most of the world. (One I remember is a coin-like stamp from Burundi that has a rainbow-colored spiralgraph-like gumming on the back.) And even among U.S. stamps, it was bewildering to see all these historical figures I never heard of. To this day, I have no idea how to pronounce Dag Hammarskjöld, but I know who he is because I got his commemorative postage stamp.

Anyway, I don't think I've ever encountered a single stamp collector ever since I lost interest, and apparently there's a sad reason for that.

I inherited a stamp collection from my grandfather as a kid in the 60s and started collecting myself, it was fascinating! I remember letters mailed to my family in the US from Germany in the 1920s with bushels-full of stamps because they were worth so little, also commemorative US stamps and weird stamps in the 60s from places like Brunei and Abu Dhabi and wondering where those places were.

I still mail letters and use stamps, and still save one or two stamps from any booklet or sticker-pad I use, just out of habit, but stamp collecting has gone the way of first edition book collecting, which I was into for a while. Nothing is worth anything now and nobody cares anymore

Might I interest you in a mail carrier costume for your dog?
https://www.usps.com/ecp/asset/images/843201-L0.jpg
Or a mailbox plush?
https://www.usps.com/ecp/asset/images/843520-T0.jpg
Or this set of Dungeons and Dragons field books with art from the commemorative stamps?
https://www.usps.com/ecp/asset/images/485499-L0.jpg

I once bought a booklet full of double-printed postage stamps and thought I had hit the jackpot - not like an inverted Jenny jackpot (anyone understand that reference?) but surely it had to be a substantial amount. I put it in a collector's book, didn't touch it for many years, then did a search online: with inflation taken into consideration, I think the profit was like $20.

Cute merch! Re: contract, this site a carrier made lays out the main issues pretty well. https://www.nalcvotesno.com/

XP

Learned about that here:

https://frinkiac.com/video/S05E01/h55BE6BNrwNJlUkxCDEKjmm7mKc=.gif

thanks for that link Josh! some great xmas gift ideas there

Got my carefully, considerately packaged USPS Pete Seeger poster in the mail today, and ... the dorks sent the wrong poster. Because of course they did. They somehow sent me the D&D poster instead, so I had to send it back (on their dime, which I guess kinda means my dime).

I saw the D&D stamps last time I was at the post office and bought a sheet! so cool

my mom got me a sheet!

I peeked inside and it was I think all the stamps mounted on a poster. This:

https://www.usps.com/ecp/asset/images/485425-L0.jpg

Which is cool, just not what I ordered.

honestly that is a terrible poster, why would you only use like 5% of the poster space on the totally cool stamp images and waste the rest on a dull gold background?

Because it's *metallic* gold, like treasure!

lol true... but THIS is cool:

https://store.usps.com/store/product/dungeons-dragons-framed-stamps-S_485424

lol so you literally cannot order anything from there with an international billing address. even if the delivery address is in the US.

Hmm, that's frustrating but intriguing. Can one order American stamps if you live in, say, Australia? Can I buy Australian stamps here?

FWIW I found out recently that IRC (which can be redeemed for international postage) are no more, which made it trickier when I agreed to cover someone’s return postage after mailing them a book to sign. I had to buy a postage label online from Royal Mail but it had an expiration date that I couldn’t get around so the author had to sign it like immediately and post it the next day. Another alternative was to buy UK postage stamps but that appeared to be a real hassle to do (without resorting to purchasing a bunch of them in the UK and having them mailed to the U.S. which would have been fairly costly).

Can I just say, it's fun to complain, and sometimes justifiable, but for all its ups and downs the USPS is still a minor miracle and one of the few remaining points of American pride. Surely that means it's a current target for demolition/demonization, but man, for price and reach it can't be beat.