People who you agree with but are dicks vs. people who you disagree with but are cool about it

ppl who you disagree with but are cool about it

obv

i will stand for pricks and sometimes dicks but never choads. choads, i draw the line.

though technically mr veg falls into "ppl you agree with but are dicks" so idk

I voted w VG but I would kind of have to qualify that. There are some issues I take too seriously to deal with ppl who are against them, but the thing is, most ppl who are vociferously e.g. anti-choice tend not to act ~cool~ about it

Also, as discussed endlessly on the CaptainLorax debacle there are some issues where it's only the Privilege of never having to deal with the issues under discussion that enables some ppl to be so "cool" about it opposed to being rendered hyperbolic or angry by stuff that is fucking up your life.

But when it comes down to taste in music or whatever, yeah. Would prefer ppl I had nothing in common with to ppl who were awful but liked stuff I loved.

Yup, that. Like, as far as personal taste stuff goes, I prefer the latter but on some issues (like, "racism is bad"), disagreeing makes you a dick no matter how nice you are.

And I purposefully don't hang out with people whose opinions differ from mine on a number of issues that are too important to me to "agree to disagree" or whatever. But I am also related to people whose opinions differ from mine on those same issues and I'm glad they are nice because it makes holidays more pleasant as long as we avoid certain topics of conversation.

Want to vote the latter but have to vote former cause I'm a Bill Mahar fan.

most ppl just shouldnt have opinions

no preference either way - life will bring both

i don't have opinions, that's why i have to start ilx polls to find out how i feel about things

and how can i be so sure it isn't me thats being the dick?

so many times i have been so actively repulsed by hearing dicks espouse an opinion i hold that i have to seriously consider adopting a new one

as discussed endlessly on the CaptainLorax debacle there are some issues where it's only the Privilege of never having to deal with the issues under discussion that enables some ppl to be so "cool" about it opposed to being rendered hyperbolic or angry by stuff that is fucking up your life.

this gets said a lot on ILX, and is doubtless true of many people (they aren't inclined to tolerate disagreement regarding certain issues), but i disagree that the ability to be "cool" about divisive issues is necessarily the product of privileged disengagement. there are gay and black conservatives, women who strongly oppose abortion rights, and lots of people of every stripe who sit waffling on the fence with regard to any issue you can imagine. group identity does not always determine a person's opinions or the intensity of their feelings about them.

I pick whatever option means I never have to read another Condescenderizer post again.

I like dicks.

lol

I pick whatever option means I never have to read another Condescenderizer post again.

i think that one's called called "killfile"

hey it's that time of the year when WCC and I are on the same position again

haha what happened with lorax? 9/11 all over again??

he had some very interesting ideas about sexuality involving percentages

WCC OTM.

Contenderizer, I have no problem with you at all, but your post is talking about a totally different thing.

Like, as far as personal taste stuff goes, I prefer the latter but on some issues (like, "racism is bad"), disagreeing makes you a dick no matter how nice you are.

I completely agree with this.

Contenderizer, I have no problem with you at all, but your post is talking about a totally different thing.

maybe. i just don't think that the ability to tolerate civil disagreement on certain issues is "only" the product of "the Privilege of never having to deal with" them. personally, that strikes me as a condescending and destructive forced binary. it's an example of the sort of thinking that inclines me to pick the second option in this poll.

Nobody said it was only that reason that enabled anyone to be cool with it. WCC said it was only that reason that enabled SOME people to be cool with it. Such as in the case of the example she gave.

Basically this is just "people who are dicks" vs. "people who are cool". I could give a shit if they agree or disagree.

best are cool smart ppl who disagree w/ me about stuff. i get bored listening to ppl passionately tell me things i already agree with. if they're rude that's even worse. i guess the matrix kinda looks like:

disagree:
smart, cool: best
smart, uncool: will tolerate if smartness outweighs uncoolness
dumb, cool: okay, can be chill, don't tend to know a lot of ppl like this but will party with
dumb, uncool: ugh, probably worst of all

agree:
smart, cool: second best, but if they're really smart they won't ever totally agree, there's always faultlines
smart, uncool: boring, tedious, ilx, etc
dumb, cool: always going on about mundane bullshit but will chill
dumb, uncool: pretty much as bad as disagree dumb uncool

this is more or less how i break it down being all bored + shit and ready to go home for weekend

on the internet, a civil and educational but non-hectoring discussion is of course lovely, as long as it stops before anyone gets repetitive

as soon as I'm down the pub, people I agree with who are dicks = FUNNY, and people who are being pleasantly calm about something I find wrongheaded are, like, massively condescending and/or not playing along and REALLY PISS ME OFF

stupid brain

being condescending = uncool in my book

this is the book, fwiw

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/615GKu7XyAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

What if they seem otherwise smart and agreeable but they like Ron Paul

xp well, I think my brain probably is a little too ready to file people under "condescending" if they don't agree with me, and a little too ready to file "condescending" under "probably sarcastic and therefore hilarious" if I agree with them, is what I meant

see how I have reached the "getting repetitive" stage already

"a book that swings for real!" sounds kind of hard to read without motion sickness

so many quotation marks

xpost check for high fever iirc

I get where contenderizer is coming from - not all or even most dispassionate ppl. are that way because of privilege. I think it's just temperament. I tend to be overly passionate so I also tend to admire those who are more circumspect. Mostly, whether we agree or not, I like ppl who won't needle or provoke me.

can i get a link to the lorax thread, it sound intersting

better to just trepan yourself with a spoon

i immediately voted "agree with" because my automatic assumption of "agree/disagree" just goes straight to political/social issues and it's really hard for me to find people who have shitty privilege-denying ideas cool. so basically if frogbs was the coolest bro in town i still wouldn't want to hang out with him

http://store.drumbum.com/media/frog-guitar-napkin-holder.jpg

but yeah when it comes to matters of personal taste or w/e i'm either completely indifferent or i prefer people i disagree with. i have a total of one (1) irl friend with whom i can talk about music and film and that's perfectly enough.

disagree with but are cool, easily

obviously there are ideas that are in and of themselves dickish ("committed anti-feminists" for instance) and there are ideas where if disagreement emerges i'm likely to need to argue it out, but being a decent person is just more important. and i'd hate to live in one of those everyone-i-know-agrees-with-me consensus bubbles.

also so many times over the years i've met totally right-on people with whom i agree on politics etc but they've been so awful that i'm just like, there is no way i can ever socialise with you and indeed your awfulness and the way you convey your thoughts is making me hate my own deepest-held beliefs.

luckily there are plenty of people i agree with on most things AND are cool, which is the case for most of us i guess, and those are the people with whom i'm actually friends

also countless examples of people whose political rhetoric is impeachable but when it comes to their personal interactions they are pure poison

also so many times over the years i've met totally right-on people with whom i agree on politics etc but they've been so awful that i'm just like, there is no way i can ever socialise with you and indeed your awfulness and the way you convey your thoughts is making me hate my own deepest-held beliefs.

― bitch I'm on the 242 (lex pretend), Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:05 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this

People who you disagree with but are cool about it

Although this was tested to probably my limit when a guy I worked with who was funny, cool bloke who I could chat with about football,music etc turned out to be a member of the BNP. I could still get on with him at work but when he ended up getting fired and friend requested me on fb I looked at some of his 'friends' and decided nah. Haven't seen him for ages but his name turned up when the BNP membership list was leaked a few years ago, since when someone told me he wasn't into that stuff anymore.

on a personal level: def bright people w/ whom i disagree about things but are cool. it's good to hear someone w/ brains who have a different take on things than i do, otherwise i wouldn't learn anything & might as well just keep to myself. some of my best friends are Republicans, Federalist Society types, people who think any music recorded after the Beatles/the Sex Pistols/the Pixies broke up is shit or consider "shawshank redemption" or any of the "lord of the rings" joints to be amongst their "favorite/best" movies, etc.

if i were in Congress, or on some other decision-making body: people w/ whom i agree but otherwise are insufferable assholes or idiots. gotta be practical, yo. and i never give such people my cell-phone number or "friend" them on Facebook.

Although this was tested to probably my limit when a guy I worked with who was funny, cool bloke who I could chat with about football,music etc turned out to be a member of the BNP. I could still get on with him at work but when he ended up getting fired and friend requested me on fb I looked at some of his 'friends' and decided nah. Haven't seen him for ages but his name turned up when the BNP membership list was leaked a few years ago, since when someone told me he wasn't into that stuff anymore.

this scenario was the basis of an episode of "Peep Show" basically, amirite?!?

hey zach what are these "shitty privilege-denying ideas" that I have, I'm genuinely curious here

the thing is, i have an actual bowl of popcorn in front of me right now

lex otm btw

TBH I only come here to talk about the stuff I like a lot. I have the feeling when I overflow with excitement abut the stuff I like (to my friends) I feel like an utter snob. :-(

c'mon zachylon i'm still waiting

oh lol frogbs like every crap thing you've ever posted reflected what i said, at least imo

i apologize for sniping/instigating though, that was immature of me

name one fucking thing, seriously

you know what, fuck you, obviously I'm not taking the whole "get called out as racist on every single thread" thing very well - but seriously man, not once have I ever supported any kind of "denial of priviledge" to anybody. I'm really glad your hate for me has reached the level where you just resort to making shit up in the hopes of getting a few "OTM"s out of it, thank you very much, now fuck off

forget about it, frogbs, this is ilxtown

agreement is all that matters.

now let's all get back to banning LJ

i think people who are cool about stuff could be persuaded to change their mind. how cool could they really be if they can't be moved by evidence?

lol frogs you have some weird ideas about how i should spend my holiday

maybe we're on completely different pages here but i'm saying that pretty much all the "dumb shit" you've said here comes down to a misunderstanding of privilege, as it often does with everyone. now my browser crashes whenever i try to open up rolling "is this racist" so in lieu of actual quotables i'll just point you to everything there. if you disagree about this idea of 'privilege' then ok, didn't expect different, but i'm not going to keep this thread going with that when everyone is sick of that word. just mentally remove it from my post if it helps you sleep, not about to start another clusterfuck with you.

xp

oh lol frogbs like every crap thing you've ever posted reflected what i said, at least imo. i apologize for sniping/instigating though, that was immature of me

least effective apology in recent memory

Okay so we've gone from "shitty privelege-denying ideas" to "a misunderstanding of privilege" - not exactly the same is it? When you say what you did you're basically saying "frog believes that other people shouldn't have the same rights as him", or something equally shitty - I'm not exactly an activist but it does hurt me a lot to know that's how people think of me. Once you get that "this guy has questionable opinions" label, what can you do to shake it? How can you prove it wrong? Can I tell you about the things I've had to deal with in my life? Does it matter? I ask you to come up with an example and your response is "well, I don't know, but I guess you don't understand some things". Because that thread was a beacon of intelligent discussion. And of course you calling me out here only makes more people think I'm a shitty person, so thanks for that.

Once you get that "this guy has questionable opinions" label, what can you do to shake it?

Well, you could listen to everybody for once and stop having them and defending/rationalizing them at great length. That would be a start. You can't prove it wrong if it's not wrong.

if you're arguing with frogbs, you've already lost

I don't really want to wade into this but I think what zach meant was "you don't recognize the privilege of your position when you opine" rather than "you do not believe others should have the same privileges as you do", which isn't great either but possibly less offensive, maybe...?

if you're arguing with frogbs on ilx, you've already lost

i don't know whose side to take here, nobody's being very cool about anything

lol

Well, you could listen to everybody for once and stop having them and defending/rationalizing them at great length.

really curious to know what exactly you're talking about here

When you say what you did you're basically saying "frog believes that other people shouldn't have the same rights as him"

i'm not defending zachylon's attack, but you're failing to understand the criticism, frogs. the accusation is that you haven't thoroughly interrogated your own presumed privilege and the way it perhaps influences your thinking. that's the denial in question.

that said, ILX's hunger for thoughtcrime scapegoats to pillory is one of its least appealing qualities

zachylon tried to score some easy signaling/social points by going after the already-oft-attached frogbs who pushed back and now we're going to have a big conversation about privilege? zach should design his discernible ilx identity by going after less easy targets and frogbs should find something more interesting to troll about.

already-oft-attacked that is and contenderizer otm can we save the thoughtcrime police for when a thoughtcrime has actually been committed and not to just pass the time alluding to other thoughtcrimes on other threads?

Mordy, privilege is kind of having a cultural moment right now, let's be cool to privilege ok

the accusation is that you haven't thoroughly interrogated your own presumed privilege and the way it perhaps influences your thinking

well that's a pretty roundabout way of interpreting a phrase like "shitty privilege denying ideas" but even so, I accept that, and I feel I know my own privilege well, better than I did, and I'm always trying to get better in that regard. Like I get that I can't help trying to convince people to put things in perspective and stop all the hypocritical finger-wagging but I do find it a little disgusting how people here basically straight up tell you what your opinions are

that is not at all a roundabout way of interpreting "shitty privilege denying ideas" given the amount of time has been spent on "recognize the privilege behind your opinions" in practically every -ism argument we've had on these boards in the past 2 years

personally i find boring zzzzz opinions way more offensive than ones that fail to adequately drop enough disclaimers privilege, but i'm very privileged so of course i'd hold that privilege denying opinion.

Dan for the win tbh.

"Dicks rarely abandon their dickishness."

Hitchens was a dick till the end but he seemed cool about it, like he'd actually reverse positions on torture etc... Maybe being cool about things and being a dick aren't mutually exclusive?

I don't really want to wade into this but I think what zach meant was "you don't recognize the privilege of your position when you opine" rather than "you do not believe others should have the same privileges as you do", which isn't great either but possibly less offensive, maybe...?

yes

done w/this, went in for an easy snipe, wanted to use my rad frog pic, it blew up, i'm sorry to all the families i've affected

http://threewordphrase.com/frog.gif

examine the assumption of privilege in yr invocation of privilege in somebody's opinion in an argument on privilege

three times fast

...and Mordy is in charge of the meta-commentary as usual and trying explain semantic differences which radically change the nature of the argument to people who are being willfully ignorant and trollish.. ;P Full-course thread this one. Where's Whiney to piss on us for naval gazing?

"naval gazing" looool

http://prints.encore-editions.com/500/0/winslow-homer-watching-ships-gloucester-1875-approximate-original-size-9x14.jpg

^ seem to have figured out how to live

ppl who disagree but are cool with it while watching ships

http://i.imgur.com/5CEmf.jpg

'oh man if i'd only seen that pic four days ago i'd have been excelsiored'

being 'excelsiored' is a mark of shame

oic. tell us more about your unquenchably rebellious nature

ah nm i'm just in a shitty mood

the pic is still pretty funny, though.

i thought of it when the thread was first started but didnt feel like posting it, but w/e

Morrissey was made for this thread.

as someone who spouts a lot of idiotic nonsense and is a dick about it?

hah

This thread has v little waste

Mordy, privilege is kind of having a cultural moment right now, let's be cool to privilege ok

― perry en concrète (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, July 5, 2012 3:41 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fsr i think about this post all the time