aren't you glad the cold war's over?

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i wondered who here thinks the cold war status quo was BETTER than what we currently have

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:02 (twenty-three years ago)

i mean, i totally don't (but is that as much an *age* thing as anything else?)

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Very glad the cold war's over - the threat and genuine possibility of nuclear annihilation is something I can live without. Plus I like Russian culture, women, and can now feel free to pursue such interests without provoking suspicion. Pity the Russians hate Gorbachev.

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Screw clarity / knowing who your enemies were / etc.

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Kids today don't know what its like to constantly be in fear of the mushroom cloud (mind you said fear was half nuclear war and half the "Make Room For The Mushrooms" TV ad".) I've always been interested in the American viewpoint on the Cold War though considering that Europe was always going to be the primary battleground on the first strikes - yet Cold War paranoia movies seemed to sock it to the US public that it could happen any time. Whilst we were never that far away from an allegorical or out and out holocaust drama (Threads, Survivors) we were not getting public information films about it - not in the eighties anyway.

I wouldn't swop my current unease on George Bush Jr's warmongering against an outnumbered and outgunned state with the real prospect of mutually assured destruction. Equally I'm very glad that the hawk in the White House wasn't in said house then (unless it was to visit his pa).

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Re 'age' thing, it's amazing how when I talk to persons younger than myself they appear to believe that the world has been under the thumb of the USA forever. (Sort of chronology that begins with 'Saving Private Ryan' - USA wins WW2, subsequently controls entire world until tomorrow). All they know about Russians is that they're gangsters or cab drivers, and as far as they know that's all they've ever been. I was explaining to someone recently that 'back in the day there was a kind of an ideological struggle as well, it wasn't all about capitalism etc like it is now' and I felt like a time traveller telling them about medieval alchemy. ('Ideological' at least in terms of public pronouncements, now we just see everything thru economic lenses, maybe Karl won after all) Cold wars make 99% of ppl feel more comfortable as at least they have a side to be on, it's only the 1% of malcontents who are cursed by knowledge of ambiguity and distortions who prefer the current state of FUBAR-ness

dave q, Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd like to think that the people in the various Eastern European countries would be glad that the Cold War's over. However, in light of the social and economic turmoil that has occurred over there -- even in the most successful countries like Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary -- I don't know if that's entirely accurate. Those of us whose family emigrated from those lands are certainly happy that it's over. I just hope that I don't sound like one of those crazy Cubans in Miami in saying so.

One thing I do know for certain -- the Poles are definitely that the Russians are gone. Though that has as much if not more to do with history and culture than economics.

Tad (llamasfur), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Definitely happy, I should say.

Tad (llamasfur), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Can we talk about WarGames yet?

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:16 (twenty-three years ago)

As long as you restrict yourself to Dabney Coleman's performance in it and/or the archaic technology and/or DEFCON jokes and/or that cool fake pterydactyl (sic) Joshua's creator had out on his private island. Ally Sheedy's sweaters remain off-topic.

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:36 (twenty-three years ago)

The Cold War didn't happen?

alext (alext), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:38 (twenty-three years ago)

on an individual level, it is nice not to have nuclear annihilation looming quite so large in my life and i'd say, based on the last ten years, it must have been happier as a result.

but the post-cold war world is much less stable, i think, and all those weapons didn't disappear (or, at least, not very many of them did). neither did the kind of leaders we felt uneasy about then, knowing they could exercise the nuclear 'option'.

maybe i'm just a half-empty kind of guy but it seems very unlikely to me that we'll get to the 100th anniversary of hiroshima and nagasaki without another one getting used by someone or other. and i think the end of the cold war, in a way, makes this more likely to happen.

mbosa, Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:44 (twenty-three years ago)

would you like to play a game?

mbosa, Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:46 (twenty-three years ago)

was the cold war a status quo though? it was the uncertainty of who knew what, and who could do what that kept us in a state of anxiety. It's only when you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that "the only winning move is not to play" that the mutual anxiety turns to peace. meanwhile in the middle east...

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 09:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Can we talk about WarGames yet?

With Ally Sheedy and bad Amstradtastic war-sim graphics? BESTEST!

Alan T, will you marry me?

petra jane (petra jane), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 10:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Although mutual adoration of an iconic haXoR film is probably as good a basis for a relationship as any, there are a few things I'd have to sort out before I'd consider it. Not only current relationship, but my own issues over previous kiwi g-friends.

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 10:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Very glad the cold war's over - the threat and genuine possibility of nuclear annihilation is something I can live without

Can anyone who knows about such things tell me whether the historical (!) evidence suggests that post-Cuban MC how real this possibility was? Obv. we were fed the line that the Soviets were planning to take us all over any moment, but was there ever an expansionary agenda in place? Or are we just talking about mutual paranoia and mistrust resulting in the button being pressed in the fear that the other side were about to do something? In which case, couldn't we still see the US doing this?

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 11:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Can we talk about WarGames yet?

Or Nena!

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 17 September 2002 12:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Signs O' the Times - http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/17/international/europe/17MOSC.html?8hpib

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/17/nyregion/17SILO.html

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:12 (twenty-three years ago)

It's not over -- they've just sent in the B Team.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:13 (twenty-three years ago)

WHo are the B-Team (I asked Karel Fialka's son Matthew but he said he hadn't seen them). Some sort of not quite crack bunch of army chefs whoescape from an open prison and are now living in San Fransisco as fugitives from a law that couldn't care less. If you want a job botch and if you can't avoid them then you might just want to hire the B Team.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:19 (twenty-three years ago)

The B team = those funny little people we gave weapons to and bought drugs from in the 70s and 80s.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Boots - The Chemist?

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Cold war was never a status quo, I think, but a time of change and possibility and its end means more obstacles to the positive possibilities (anti-colonial uprisings & internal socially progressive turmoil) and more openings to negative ones (freaky anti-western anti-science resurgences of ninth-century religious dogma)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 18:00 (twenty-three years ago)

three months pass...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/nuclear/article/0,2763,871169,00.html

Ham Goodge, Thursday, 9 January 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
Cold war nostalgia/socialist kitsch -- classic or dud?

adam... (nordicskilla), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

nineteen years pass...

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n15/gabriel-winant/we-can-breathe

"The Cold War’s chief political accomplishment may well have been the end of the international solidarity formed in the fight against fascism."

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 August 2024 12:26 (one year ago)

This piece is a great little digest of left-wing militant history.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 August 2024 12:27 (one year ago)

It's nice isn't it? The quiet

the news is terrible, i'm in the clear (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 24 August 2024 12:31 (one year ago)

From Vincent Bevins' The Jakarta Method, page 68:

“It’s the strategy of divide
et impera,” (Sakono) said, using the Latin for “divide and conquer.” “It is the Cold
War,” he said. “Let me explain—‘Cold War’ is the name they have given to
the process by which America tries to dominate countries like Indonesia.”

Did the cold war end, or just shift into different phases

glumdalclitch, Saturday, 24 August 2024 13:48 (one year ago)

Yes that's right in the same way that "fall of the Roman Empire" is an illusory myth but at the same time there is a clear fracture along ideological lines and the question here as events unfold is "was totalitarianism worse than libertarian dictatorship in the big scheme?"

the news is terrible, i'm in the clear (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 24 August 2024 13:55 (one year ago)


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