the Newtown, Conn. elementary school shooting

giving this its own thread because it looks like one of the worst mass shootings in u.s. history

cbs says 27 dead, have to imagine most are children

Reuters Top NewsVerified
‏@Reuters
FLASH: At least 27 dead including children in Connecticut school shooting - @CBSNews http://bit.ly/Z5RP7u

this is just gut-wrenching

this is unbelievably depraved

probably going to remind everyone in the uk of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

CBS says 14 children killed

Earlier reports of a second gunman are unconfirmed. The Connecticut Post reports that police are also questioning a handcuffed man in connection with the shooting.

the problem with guns is that they were ever invented in the first place IMO

ap says 18 kids dead

my god

ags;di

this is horrifying

I feel sick to my stomach and helpless because american gun laws are never going to change.

how
many
more
will
it
take

what can anyone even say, assholes always want guns and they like to use them, guns are so pervasive in media and everywhere that people can easily imagine themselves shooting up shit even if theyve never held one and dudes in particular have fantasies and get a charge out of guns. Who can deny it, why do we love action films? I want my kid to grow up without getting used to the idea of guns = awesome shit, but then what, he lives a peaceful kind life only to run across some infantile douche who loved guns a bit too much and got picked on a few times and decides to take out everyone in sight. Who knows. What can even be said.

american gun laws are never going to change.

sad but true

omg wtf

I feel sick to my stomach and helpless because american gun laws are never going to change.

This. So frustrating. Not just the laws, but the attitude. It's worse than sad.

the attitude will change but it might take decades... laws, i'm not so optimistic

"one entire classroom is unaccounted for" is really not a phrase you ever want to see

This country is too sick at its core to be trusted with a 2nd Amendment.

jesus this is awful

a kindergarten class? fucking hell.

so sad. right where i grew up too. newtown one town over. next to danbury.

I really don't think the 2nd Amendment makes any sense without military conscription

otm

Key problem with the gun control debate in the US is that the proposed laws are generally pointless - 'assault weapon bans' and such do nothing to curb crime. CT is fairly restrictive on gun laws.

The only gun control that would conceivably work is absolute confiscation. Which is impossible.

i can't even fucking comprehend this right now

and the gunman was the father of one of the students?

I can't even...

but people need to shoot quail. The government might rise up. freedom is important. Guns are cool. Let's arm everyone. Fuck this country sometimes IMO.

this is just so fucking horrible and tragic. godfuckingdamnit.

can't wait for all the 'DONT POLITICIZE THIS TRAGEDY' assholes. fucking dipshits. ban guns.

Laws have changed actually, Clinton's 10-yr Fed Assault Weapon ban was passed in 94... but the problem isn't with the laws, it's that the gun mnfctrs were able to find loopholes in the law and basically sell identical assault weapons during the ban as they did previously. Which is why when the ban was up in 04 it wasn't even up for consideration... completely cosmetic legal verbiage versus real-world economics.

Also, 18 children dead according to a school official.

worst country in the world

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1214/breaking49.html

22 kids slashed in china, just while things arent fucked enough

so glad the worlds ending next week

^^ yeah I saw that - a depressingly common occurrence in china, all things considered. (for some reason when guys go mental over there, they think the best way to get attention is to slash up a playground.) thank god guns are banned in china.

civil disobedience by citizenry needed to stop this shit.

NBC says "a second person" is in custody

This is profoundly sad

an uprising against the nra needed to stop this shit. xxp

I can't stop being reminded of this:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe_Elementary_School_bombing

In 1927, dude used dynamite.

In 1959, dynamite in a suitcase.

Crazy gonna kill however crazy can kill.

In a just world Wayne Lapierre would be hanging from a lamppost right now.

^

in a just world folks would voluntarily melt down every gun they own

this is so fucking awful. Their poor parents, I can't imagine how it must feel.

no mass shooting has ever been perpetrated by a woman... this seems relevant to me somehow

the governments of the world would join them. But a lot of actual adults and govts just love them soooo much.

Crazy gonna kill however crazy can kill.

Yes. We need to talk about mental illness.

abc: "one shooter was 24 years old, armed with four weapons and wearing a bulletproof vest"

only one I can think of was the Laurie dann shooting in winnetka IL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_San_Marco

that was a vv minor incident comparatively speaking. It didn't stem from the usual emasculated feeling male raised an a steady diet of "guns are instruments of justice" BS

guns are just a tool. they are a versatile hand tool that sends a small slug of metal at very high speeds in what ever direction you point it.

it just so happens that the utility of this tool is very limited. you could theoretically use it to demolish, for example, a tree stump, by progressively knocking it to tiny pieces over a long period of time at extremely high expense in ammunition. but most people find this tool to be best adapted to tearing open holes in the flesh and bones of living creatures, causing traumatic and often fatal wounds.

i will take an uncharacteristically optimistic look - when we get to the point where anyone can print 3D guns in their home, there's going to be a ton of wonderful things that come with that freedom that we haven't even thought of yet

gotta say, I know what you mean but this ties in nicely to what was also probably the most depressing thing about the video to me! taking the replicator from star trek tng, open source communities and collaboration, and other forces for good that I hold near and dear... and using these ideas to make more weapons to kill people with. jeez, what a downer.

when i get my 3D printer, i'm going to program it build 4 separate quadrants of an even larger 3D printer. then i'll print out a little machine to assemble the 4 quadrants. once the larger machine is constructed, i'll repeat the whole process again and again, until i have a 3D printer the side and shape of wyoming

this has always been my goal! i saw a video a while ago of some guys who had made a 3d printer that could replicate all of its own components except a few screws. i imagine setting it up in a cave somewhere w/ a big pile of bioplastic and returning in a few years to find my robot army ready.

this is going to turn into the 3D Printing version of Primer

3-D printing AR-15 lowers is no different from "80% lowers" (finished via mill or CNC machine) that have existed for decades - only the 3-D printed lower doesn't work.
Until you can 3-D print high quality steel, no one will print an entire gun (barrels are kind of important, bolt carriers, etc.) and printing alone will never be suitable for a handgun.

The best polymer handguns in the world flex under recoil and they're steel reinforced.

^^^ this is kind of what I thought, tho I'm no expert?

the designs and materials will constantly improve and the cost will go down. if you can make a gun cheaply enough for a one-time use, how many bullets do you need it to fire before breaking down?

Well, a plastic barrel would last precisely zero uses.

only the 3-D printed lower doesn't work.

in the video above, he talks about the lower and how they're working to improve it, and how each iteration of their guns can shoot more and more rounds before snapping. At the end he's shooting 300+ rounds before it breaks. (or is it 100+? i can't watch it right now, but it's more than enough to shoot several dozen rounds into a body)

but you or someone else who knows more about guns should check it out and see what you think. dude in the video seems like a gun fanatic, recognizes the issue of stability, is confident that each iteration of his gun will be stronger and stronger, and already has working prototypes that can shoot many dozens of rounds before snapping. and that's before the expected 3D printing advances that would make it possible to print using different, stronger materials.

if you sell the instability of the 3d-printed receivers as disposability it kind of becomes a feature not bug, doesn't it?

i suppose the firing mechanism isn't the critical part for ballistics matching tho is it...

this is going to be a weird set of alliances when gun companies and gun control advocates partner up to stop 3D gun printing by any means necessary.

The AR-15 lower is chosen because it doesn't have much of a function aside from being there and the various fire control components fitting into it - there's little stress on that particular part, and it's still breaking. I'm sure that years down the road the technology will be more viable, but we're a long way away from turnkey 3-D printing that can produce AR-15 lower-sized items (the current machine that requires no setup maxes out at 5 inches IIRC, the Makerbots 9"?) even if the strength issues get ironed out. Once you have that plastic lower, though, you still have to have the rest of the gun that's made of forged aluminum and steel.
One solution could be Congress and the ATF requiring that upper receivers/barrels be serialized as firearms - you could mount an existing unserialized upper to your off the record lower, sure, but uppers and lowers generally exist 1:1 today so that would just involve taking a upper off of an existing lower or something, rendering the existing lower useless.

As I said, you've always been able to home-brew AR-15 lowers - survivalists/hobbyists/etc. have been buying "80% lowers" for years w/ ATF approval then doing the finish on a drill press/mill or CNC machine.

I can't see 3-D printing a handgun, ever - factoring in the steel reinforcing and steel slide/barrel/etc., there's no upside over machining.

This is, IMO, just some libertarian nerd circle-jerking and will be for the foreseeable future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

this is the video that's being sent out to train people in what to do in mass-shooting situations

at 4:10, it's a good thing that the guy who walked in the door was the shooter, rather than a frightened co-worker trying to find a safe room.

that video was sent to me in an email from my school - i viscerally had a much more abhorrent/disgusting/terrified response to this video than pretty much any move i've seen in the last 10 years

in case anybody is interested in how best to deal with a mass shooter I have uploaded the very helpful NYPD official response sheet to my dropbox, please educate yourselves... stay safe everybody... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9627011/NYPD%20Shield%20Safety%20Pamphlet.pdf

note that video was uploaded a few days after the Aurora shooting (which makes it even worse IMO), I remember it floating around last year

yeah i think gawker picked it up

yeah, just saw the upload date.... i think i'm just upset that i got this in a 'safety email' from my school, it's just fucked up that one of the conditions of living in america is figuring out the safest exit whenever u enter a room, idk

Yeah, we have a letter like that too, after this last year.

jesus

i'm glad you gun havers are enjoying having your guns though, peace

the office in that dhs video looks just like my office, in which i am sitting. i am now sweating.

guns schmuns

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/10/nyregion/gun-rights-celebration-at-starbucks-not-in-newtown.html?hpw

The nation’s gun owners declared Friday Starbucks Appreciation Day, but in Newtown, Conn., not everyone seemed very appreciative.

Instead, the local Starbucks closed five hours early, disappointing some gun owners who had planned to show up wearing holstered pistols to make a statement in favor of gun rights and Starbucks’ policies.

The event had already infuriated many residents still reeling from the murder of 26 children and educators at Sandy Hook Elementary School in December.

A sign at the coffee shop read: “Out of respect for Newtown and everything our community has been through, we have decided to close our store early today.”

god wtf is wrong with people

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1529196.1385449188!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/connecticut-school-shooting.jpg

ya - wtf. that image belong on a buzzfeed "article" or something.

Top 10 People You Would Not Expect to be Mass Murderers

Heard a bit about the report on the radio, and wow, no one could have known what this guy was going to do, but he was some sort of walking red flag. He lived with his mother, but communicated with her exclusively by email. His windows were covered up and blacked out. He loved pictures of hamsters and playing "Dance Dance Revolution."

hey now, noted Decibel contributor and ILXor J3ff might have something to say about loving pictures of hamsters being a "red flag".

In-depth interview with Lanza's father. It goes as deep as we can ever know into his life and relationship with his parents.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/03/17/140317fa_fact_solomon

Just bought Matthew Lysiak's book yesterday. Hoping it's as good as the Columbine book...if "good" is the right word.

I'm not all the way done with the interview but man, my heart just breaks for him. And the Mom too. I don't know how anyone could read this and come away thinking that Adam did what he did as a result of bad parenting. But that brief point the father makes about parenting for 'days' vs 'years' feels like it is pretty key w/r/t Adam, and special needs in general, whether it's children or teens. It's really hard to NOT focus on each day as a microcosm.

ugh

Open-ended questions can also be intolerable to people with autism, and, when King asked Adam to make three wishes, he wished "that whatever was granting the wishes would not exist."

otm

Adam Lanza was a terrorist for an unknowable... *closes article*

i will likely complete it later, but shit, really?

that sentence was stupid, but the balance of the article is worth your time.

I liked that sentence! There's a way in which the crime can't be parsed, and I think that graph got at its root.

i read the whole thing even though it took me like a week to have the surplus emotional capital to finish it

this part was esp poignant to me
the last sentence demonstrates one of my favorite linguistic phenomena -- when someone is talking about themselves but the topic is so horrifying that at some point they switch pronouns to 'you' unintentionally
(i realize pronoun intention isn't always clear but in sentences like this, it's a common construction to default to 'you' by the end of the sentence, i hear it all the time)

Peter told me, “I get very defensive with my name. I do not like to even say it. I thought about changing it, but I feel like that would be distancing myself and I cannot distance myself. I don’t let it define me, but I felt like changing the name is sort of pretending it didn’t happen and that’s not right.” But Peter has found the visibility hard. Old friends have been unflagging in their support, but Peter said he thought that he might never make new friends again. “This defines who I am and I can’t stand that, but you have to accept it.”

one thing i vaguely recall about the article is that it billed itself as an exclusive interview with peter lanza but there weren't many quotes from peter lanza, iirc.

yeah, the article is pretty brutal emotionally take in, particularly the attempts to humanize Adam, both in action (by his parents) and in retrospective (from the writer)

i still think it was the first time Peter Lanza spoke to the press at all since the shooting happened

Adam Lanza was a terrorist for an unknowable... *closes article*

i will likely complete it later, but shit, really?

― blot it out (Hunt3r), Monday, March 10, 2014 6:11 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i've only read some of andrew solomon's book but it was probably the most moving thing i've ever read. fwiw.

i did finish the article very shortly after having typed that, as i felt it was very good otherwise.

by his book you are referring to _far from the tree_?

yeah
it's checked out from the library at the moment, though i would have needed it forever to really make progress, being a slow reader, it being an eight hundred page book & its content somewhat limiting one's capacity to breeze through it un-emotionally-impeded. the prologue talks about his entry into writing about the types of communities whose first identity is perceived as either deficient or ideally avoidable, people whose circumstances are in some ways difficult. he talks about being commissioned by the times to write about a deaf community, i think in the early days of cochlear implants when there was a kind of promise that the avoidable circumstance could be cured or avoided. & solomon is gay & a parent, & talks about the parts of his identity ("identity", &c) that might, per a cost benefit analysis performed by his parents attempting to spare their son hardship, have been avoided, steered around. the book is them him reporting from a bunch of different settings in which there's that disconnect between something that really is almost perceived ~worth~ & then the actual lives of everybody involved. like that fitzgerald line about the real satisfactions of life arising from something like a sense of progress, hardship, struggle. i don't know it just felt incredibly educational to me, both in expanding my specific knowledge of certain demographics, making me check how little i'd questioned a lot of stuff, & then just for its testimony, actually his as much as anybody's. i've read little of it; hopefully it'll be in my apartment one day. just fyi.

Yeah, seems like there was some controversy in the deaf community/some deaf communities, re whether having the implants was a negation, of abandoning the struggles, adaptation and achievements of a way of life. And of course, if someone did get past that and have the implants, adapting to the world of/with sound is part of a whole new way of life (according to the previous degree of deafness, the effectiveness of the implants, one's particular self-image, relationships, etc.)
Impressed by the way he drew out Peter Lanza (who had plenty to say, directly quoted or not, but Solomon's the only reporter he's said it to), and the author's own concise,astute comments, I read a big chunk of his book about (his and other people's) depression, The Noonday Demon. I thought it was a big chunk, but not according to the page numbers: it's very dense, but always clear. Like Peter Lanza, he'd thought about this a *lot* before saying anything publicly, and there seems to be a certain amount of thoughts reaching further realization---telling us about it, he's telling himself some more as well. There's a sense of release and (in Solomon's case) relief, never throwing aside observation of self and others. The original article and many others, on a variety of topics, can be read here--rich stuff:http://andrewsolomon.com/

I read the whole New Yorker piece the day it was linked itt; jfc it is going to haunt me forever.

I thought the most poignant (if that's the right word) aspect was when the author concedes Lanza's father had just as many questions for him and the author did for the father, that his son's act was so unknowable he's been feeling the same shock and confusion as everyone else, but because he's the shooter's father he obviously does not have the same resources of community, or public reconciliation or anything like that. He was forced to go silent, to go secret, by the circumstances of his son's acts. There was something similar going on in the Columbine book, where the parents were being torn between blame, and empathy, and anger and all the other emotions, and more often than not find radio silence the best, or most workable, solution, often at great personal cost to their lives, relationships, etc.

that's why i thought the quote about his name was so moving