rolling 2013 thread on race and racism

it's 2013 and a new year, probably time to put the rolling is this racist? thread to rest, eh?

would like to request that really obviously, outrageously racist stories not be posted itt unless there's an interesting angle; yes, we know that racism exists on the interent and it is ugly (and I'll be the first to admit I've been guilty of this as well), no need to remind everybody

I'll start us off with this piece, which is really good:

http://www.mtvhive.com/2013/01/16/the-only-black-guy-at-the-indie-rock-show/

r.i.p. "is this racist?" we never were actually sure.

very appropriate dn ; )

oh shit

http://jezebel.com/5976202/i-cant-stop-looking-at-these-south-korean-women-whove-had-plastic-surgery

this article rubbed me the wrong way

Clicking through, it's obvious that there is indeed one specific way that is considered the best way for a woman to look, and it's a cross between Belle and Chinese actress Fan Bing Bing.

clearly all these south korean women are aspiring to a look that's a cross between ... an american cartoon character and a chinese actress. couldn't be anybody from south korea.

just a matter of years before they become a teeming, undistinguishable horde who all look exactly alike.

this is obviously racist but i think it has an interesting angle:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/550058_10151351615104827_699043959_n.jpg

a slanted one amirite

that MTV Hive article is amazing

I'm kind of surprised/amazed I've never gotten "you must be a precious unicorn" looks at any of the Cure concerts I've been to

yeah it's really great

I didn't have anywhere to post this when I first came across it but this is really great too:

http://4thletter.net/2012/11/me-and-my-people-got-history-why-how-i-write-about-race/

particularly crucial:

The black kids of my generation and the ones before it were raised with the notion that it’s essential to hold onto one’s “blackness,” and that venturing outside of those boundaries meant you were trying to assimilate to white society, to “be more like one of them.” But essentially every African-American child growing up has an intimate knowledge of some version of the black experience, and the way we dress or the music we listen to still won’t hide the color of our skin. I never saw my interest in alternative culture as a way to obfuscate my racial identity. Aside from the annoyance of being typecast as a fan of a band purely based on superficial concerns, that conversation overlooked the one substantial reason why there are a lot of black people who relate to TV on the Radio’s music: They are a band primarily consisting of African-American men who often explore what it means to be African-American. For a generation of alternative music fans made to believe we were betraying “what it means” to be black, a band had finally come along that made that very idea a theme in its music.

The first gig I ever went to was The Cure at Wembley Arena and I can remember walking around the concourse thinking it would be nice to spot a least one black person. Didn't see any, but there were a lot of people wearing black. Can't remember getting any stares tho.

why is that chinese man wearing... oh, it's a kuwaiti man holding the corners of his eyes, almost got me there

Hey an article about race AND comics!! Going to have to read this shit...

dude you are killing it with these essays:

I’m not with that. Not at all. I said a while back that one of the biggest parts of being black in America is being constantly reminded that you are black. That’s a clear example. Black is different, black is weird, black must be pointed out when you see it, especially when it contrasts with normal. I mean, white. It makes you feel like you don’t belong every minute of every day, like you’re an intruder in the only home you’ve ever known.
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:24 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Agreed, I think I just read three of them after that first link.

― mh, Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn it, DJP, we're on the other thread now, stop luring me back

― mh, Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah david brothers is probably one of my favorite writers on the internet right now. I linked to a bunch of his stuff on django unchained in the django thread, really great if you've seen the movie.

i don't think the 'chinese eyes' in that ad is nearly as offensive as the clearly insincere smile. it's more of a grimace, like he really hates chinese food and chinese culture in general, and he resents being made to do the 'chinese eyes' thing, not because it's racist, but because he would really hate it if anyone thought he was chinese.

i don't think the 'chinese eyes' in that ad is nearly as offensive as the clearly insincere smile.

how do you manage to consistently find a new level of insane

that kuwaiti chinese restaurant wants you to know that they NEVER USE KETCHUP OR COLORING AGENTS

they also apparently brag that they use "organic, vegetable-based MSG"

at least that's what I think it says, I have to, uh, squint to read it...

there's really nothing interesting about that kuwait ad, we can move on guys

more than happy to

I dunno, I think there's a dynamic between a cultural faux pas vs. underlying malevolence that the ad might be instructive in.

yeah let's direct the conversation back to how badass Luke Cage is, if we could...

Kuwaitis, and everyone, need to learn its not ok to do the squinty eye thing, I doubt he was intentionally trying to hurt feelings/be mean/make light of phenotypic differences... but this is a melting pot or salad bowl or whatever and in a multicultural society you have to adhere to basic PC rules that we've all determined through unwritten cultural treates, even if you are also an immigrant and a minority, them's the rules and you break them at your own risk.

That's all I have to say about that dumb ad.

*cultural treaties

Is every white hip-hop fan required to own a copy of The Marshall Mathers LP? Does every gender studies major have a framed poster of Kathleen Hanna on their wall?

This is where the argument sort of loses me.

south park does the squinty eye thing a lot more than family guy but of the two, i feel family guy actually harbors more genuine racism in their hearts.

there's some kind of parallax view watching other cultures perform racial prejudice i think, not that that ad is a great example

really i just wanted to say parallax view. parallax view, parallax view.

ok. i'm done. we can talk about other stuff.

You mean feeling all weird about northern european santa claus and his gang of black friends, wondering wtf british people are on about with golliwogs or the way they refer to chinese restaurants, and then walking around my home saying I got "gypped" out of money and that I can't work on my car because the engine compartment is built for tiny japanese hands?

We're all racist in our own, special ways

and by "we" I mean people other than me, can't imagine I'd ever screw up like that

except for when I do

south park does the squinty eye thing a lot more than family guy but of the two, i feel family guy actually harbors more genuine racism in their hearts.

both of these are bad, but South Park is actually pretty good on some racial issues (as long as they don't involve Asians, I guess). one thing you never see on Family Guy (or any Seth Macfarlane show) is a non-white character in which the character's race isn't pointed out in some way.

I thought Black Peter was some actually ancient tradition but I looked up and it appears he only goes back to the 1850s, and has always been "Santa's servant/page/valet/etc." so....

fuck that "tradition."

The last line of that article:

I wish all these surgery-seekers would watch The Elephant Man and Mask before booking an appointment.

jesus fucking christ you have got to be kidding me

that Douglas essay is really rad

I wish all these surgery-seekers would watch http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4b/The_Mask_%28film%29_poster.jpg/220px-The_Mask_%28film%29_poster.jpg before booking an appointment.

jesus fucking christ you have got to be kidding me

really had no idea what they're trying to say here, if anything doesn't Elephant Man suggest that outward appearance is indeed important?

This is where the argument sort of loses me.

Why?

Cause Slim Shady is a sucka-MC not even white people have to respect.

doesn't Elephant Man suggest that outward appearance is indeed important?

^^^makes you think

http://filcomenterprises.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/elephant-frog.jpg?w=648

I think it's kind of odd that they mention KPOP as a culprit but don't bemoan Western Imperialism as similarly grotesquely inspiring the music industry.

because i mean yes not required, but i'm happy to casually assume that most gender studies majors of a certain era are bikini kill fans and that basically everyone into hip-hop of a certain era has a copy of that eminem album.

The essay generally makes a great deal of sense to me. But there's also something silly about pretending that if a band has a sound that you are known to be fond of, and is known to be good at that sound, and also does things or is things that might resonate with you for other reasons, then it is some sort of bad stereotyping to suppose that you might be fond of that band. I get the impulse to take umbrage at it, but I don't necessarily feel it is legitimate.

and there's a right and wrong way to make those sort of suppositions, i'll grant, and a right and wrong set of reasoning behind them.

as a white hip hop fan who never liked eminem that line didn't bother me at all lol

like if someone actually said "you _don't_ like such and such, what's wrong with you?" or something, that would be much more troublesome. and i feel like it's the shadow of that accusation that the essay is taking off of on this point.

everyone liked eminem circa that album! it was so freaking inescapable.

Musically, yes; otherwise, idk but white person with dreads is always sus

I've been blissfully unaware of her existence except for a minute in college.

Lol so the one song I was willing to begrudgingly grant her is actually by Tracy Bonham

i like that untouchable face song, otherwise no

It would just be nice if all the ppl I'm not thinking about weren't busy being completely terrible while I'm not thinking about them. But maybe I'm an optimist.

I liked when she ran for mayor of Toronto

the nottoway plantation house was completed in 1859. it was built by slave labor, as was the white house and a great deal of america. it's been on the national register of historic places since 1980.

i don't know ani difranco, but i suspect that she is not at all racist by american standards. that the location of her event features the word 'plantation' is accurate and damning, but -- is it really that wrong to attempt to hold an inclusive event there?

yes

yikes @ ani's response, so much of it is textbook #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen. jay smooth has a string of comments on his facebook post about the issue that do a good job of elucidating how the apology fell flat:

https://www.facebook.com/jsmooth995/posts/10152757410092137

The first rule of writing something like this should be that even if you have a legitimate reason to feel aggrieved by the nature / tone of a percentage of the feedback you received it's rarely a good look to make an issue of it in the statement itself.

untouchable race

nice

the nottoway plantation house was completed in 1859. it was built by slave labor, as was the white house and a great deal of america. it's been on the national register of historic places since 1980.

i don't know ani difranco, but i suspect that she is not at all racist by american standards. that the location of her event features the word 'plantation' is accurate and damning, but -- is it really that wrong to attempt to hold an inclusive event there?

― mookieproof, Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:08 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mean, her point about how it's in a part of a country where most old houses have slave quarters, she's not wrong that up to a point it's almost arbitrary to target just that building as The Historic Site Of Slavery...that was just not the time and place to make that point, if she was canceling to get away from the controversy she should've committed to that move and not said anything to keep people angry at her.

Whatever point Ani wants to make you can't deny the symbolism that a plantation has

oh totally

It would be interesting to see Ani's other options for a rural retreat within an hour or so's drive of New Orleans.

non-former plantation options

I googled "Louisiana retreats" and found a bunch of places that'll rent themselves out in cool locales, the first two didn't mention having been plantations in their materials though that's not to say they don't stand on one-time plantation property. But the place in question plays itself up as a plantation. It's just gross.

Mad gross. Agreed.

thanks for the googling too. I suck balls at booking travel.

Wow does he comp you anything at least

i don't think this was posted upthread but this info about the plantation has popped up elsewhere

So why hold the Retreat at the Nottoway Plantation? In order to inform my outrage I wanted to know who benefits from the continued existence of the Nottoway Plantation. It is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, but is owned and operated privately by Nottoway Plantation Inc. Nottoway Plantation Inc., with annual revenue of $2.5 to 5 million is owned by the Paul Ramsay Group. The Paul Ramsay Group, interestingly enough, is the investment arm of Australia’s thirteenth richest billionaire Paul Ramsay, a healthcare mogul well known in Australia for donating half a million dollars to conservative Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s election campaign. So who benefits from the continued existence of the plantation? The man who has given more than $1.8 million to the anti-gay, anti-abortion, and anti-immigrant Liberal party over the last 14 years.

http://gawker.com/the-year-in-racial-amnesia-1475833936

A wrap-up of the year

Everyone should read that three or four times

twice down, here, and I will provably pick it up again tomorrow.

I realize that a sad coworker semi-rant a few weeks ago included a spurious reference to one of these things in a snopes-ready style.

http://www.forharriet.com/2013/12/dear-ani-difranco-supporters-you-cannot.html

Ugh

I'm sure there's a gif for my response to Mandi Harrington, I just don't know what it is yet.

I lol'd

http://i.imgur.com/CK2aTpm.gif

Weighing up 'LaQueeta Jones' as new username.

the "tracked her IP" claim, though. How? Via Facebook? Did somebody write to Facebook, say "I suspect these two users on an Ani DiFranco thread are using the same IP," get a speedy response from Facebook, and post "tracked her IP" without any supporting IPs pasted in, as one often does when saying "I gotcha"?

that said, as a gambit I think it smoked out the truth, so it's a wash

Someone on that Jay Smooth fb thread claimed that Mandi H was a sock of The actual Ani Difranco
Levels

Yeah that was a lil suspicious xp

that said, as a gambit I think it smoked out the truth, so it's a wash

Weighing up 'LaQueeta Jones' as new username.

― UK Cop Humour (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:12 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark

Don't

year in racial amnesia article "good" stuff

Someone on that Jay Smooth fb thread claimed that Mandi H was a sock of The actual Ani Difranco

dubious claim imo

For one thing the Mandi H sock used proper capitalization

xxp aren't you actually the overglorified male ani difranco idk I could be wrong

― some white dude (Turangalila)

aero avoiding the key accusations here imo

The fact that, last I checked, LaQueeta's posts are no longer there seem to square up with the claims that she is actually Mandi.

I don't contest the accusation, seems clear, I contest "we tracked your IP" smoke & mirrors imo

oh mandi, you came and you priv'd without checking

Who the hell is Mandi ?

She's a fine girl.

"jandek?? who are you?? i'm utterly fascinated. this grey sunday am is fitting for a bit of his dissonance. off to find out more…." -Mandi Harrington

read stevie's link

xxp

I don't contest the accusation, seems clear, I contest "we tracked your IP" smoke & mirrors imo

No, it was a total bluff according to that person, she just worked on a hunch after seeing both Facebooks were made within minutes of each other and seeing that the sock account's use of AAVE was completely wrong. FB can't track IPs.

I'm still reeling at how stupid/racist it would be to create a sockpuppet named "LaQueeta" to prove you're not racist.

Rolling 2014 Thread on Race