At what age [did you]/[do you expect to] give up on your dreams?

What's that Pulp line? And when you're no longer searching for beauty or love / Just some kind of life with the edges taken off.

Actually, scratch that. I've never had well-defined ambitions anyway. I mean, there's stuff I might want, but I'm more bothered about the unspecified hope that other stuff might happen, that this isn't it. And I have a thin but irrepressible streak of blind optimism.

I kind of think ambition can be infinitely postponed. As a romantic young fop I used to worry that I was already older than Keats/Welles/McCauley Culkin were when they had created their life-defining masterpieces. Now I say to myself "But Steve Erickson didn't get HIS novel published until he was 35!". But as Steve Erickson always sez: "the dream destroys what is not fulfilled". : (

Not that *dreams* = *WHAT JOB YOU DO*, in fact as a cynical old bastard it's more like *nightmare* = what job you do*, BUT - I reckon most people haven't got a bloody clue what they want to do in their 20's , and that's fine. How can anyone? You can't know what anything's *like* until you try it. So when you meet someone aged 21 who says "I'm going to work in international marketing for a few years with the objective of working up to VP level by the time I'm 30" you'll know what to call them - wanker.

My life has turned out to be much better than I ever thought it could after an unpromising start. I have a wonderful family and somehow manage to make and keep friends, despite being a bit of a bastard. My only real disappointment is that don't have, and never have had, a job that I love doing. I suppose it **could** happen, but I don't see much hope.

I'm sorry to get so Eminem on y'all, but you can do anything you set your mind too man!

Hey, Doc - you're a *bastard*.

I've come to realise most other people don't feel like this, but also that it's not neccesarily a great thing to have. It doesnt stop you being scared or unconfident; it just prolongs the agony. It doen't mean you will be any good or have any luck, it just means that any lack of success inevitably means a great sense of failure. But ignoring it is a) biologically impossible, b) a denial of selfhood, and c) an even greater failure. And it can make you selfish. So there we are, 'hunting like a brave man with a flashlight', as TV Smith once said.

as if my post wasn't personal!

well, its something to do with writing. writing and place. writing ABOUT place. That's the only way I can put it into words briefly.

Just about every decision I've taken since I was 20/25 or so has been on this basis, though it's like trying to walk in a straight line when you're drunk. I do PR for English Heritage, which is as close asa day job could get to this - but it's not close enough, it's not enough.

Expressing it as doubt rather than 'fulfill your dreams!' codswallop took a little courage. Following it in spite of said doubt all your life is not spineless.

The alternative isn't much better, I can assure you.

I thought the Nipper might say sth different: namely: as you get older it does get easier to realize some of your aspirations - though not all of them.

eg: thanks mainly to the efforts and skills of other people, I can now make records: I couldn't do that ten years ago. (Technological change plays some kind of part too.)

The Doc, of course, was making gloomy post-punk records 20 years ago, so must be regarded as a washed-up prodigy with nowhere to go but down.

Thank god you're not Neolithic! 30 years, most spent chasing food. At 29 you're just getting into your stride with some other ideas, then bosh! end of life.

Still am, mate. Why are you being rude to me anyway?

My experience of the past year has taught me that I'd just like to be an interesting person who inspires some people somewhere - I'd just like to be able to give things back. And I'm at the right age to start doing that. If I could just give things back to people that I've gotten from others, and make some kind of impact in terms of making some people's lives a little better, I will have accomplished a 'dream'. I think what I'm looking for is meaning and better and more meaningful relationships.

Two years ago, my grandmother died, and I've been thinking about her a lot lately. It was only at her wake that we met all of these people who told us about little things she'd done to make people's lives easier, like working with charities and things.

David H - I don't understand either of your last two posts. *Are* you talking about Simon Reynolds?

On the other hand, I can say that this time next year it looks as though I will be living in a new city in a different country with someone I care deeply about - this doesn't guarantee either of us happiness, but we are giving it a try. What else can you do?

This is tough cause I write genre fiction, and I don't much run into robots and vampires on the RTA.

When I was a kid, I set out a bunch of goals. I modified them when I was a little older and had a better sense of scale and time: Publish by twenty-one. Publish something for a Reasonable Amount of money by twenty-five (this is the one I added, cause as a kid I didn't realize just how many markets there were that paid in a handful of dimes or a contributor's copy). By thirty, either be writing full-time for pay, or know that I'm about to be (contract in hand, that sort of thing).

Two down. Working on #3, and I'm about to turn 28. I took way too damn long to get around to novels, spent most of my 20s sharpening my teeth on short stories and then realized, "Oh, fuck. Novels aren't very-long short stories." After the first one I wrote just for practice, I've got a novella in editorial hands right now, a novel I'm revising, a new one in progress, and time is frigging burning away.

But fuck it. It's good to have a plan, but I don't have a backup. At this point, I don't know how to do anything else, not just for a living but for a life. I don't know how to want anything else. If I end up being that guy who publishes novels but has to swing a day job somehow, I guess that's what I'll do.

And in the meantime, I answer Playboy Interview questions in my head, and debate the proper casting choices for my stuff.

I have had this one dream for a VERY long time -- to be recognized for something spectacular. And ever since those dreams began, I haven't had a clue as to what I could be recognized as that would be awe-inspiring. I don't seem to be especially talented at anything, and most especially not anything that would gain me any sort of large-scale recognition. Not many people would excitedly go on about someone who happens to be good in calculus, I fear.

But then again... I suppose the whole "being recognized for something spectacular" thing could be categorized under this one larger dream I've had for an even longer period of time, which is to be someone a lot of my peers envy. And while that does on the surface seem to be somewhat of a harsh wish, I do have to state that I have envied quite a lot of people for quite a lot of things in the past and I just want the opportunity to have the tables turned.

I still have dreams of being popular (accepted, "in with the in crowd", etc.), of having a quality relationship, of being beautiful, etc., but those are comparatively minor ones and I think I'll have those dreams in the back of my mind for a long time yet.

I don't expect to give up on any of these dreams until I reach a point in my life when I develop totally new dreams/aspirations.

No, seriously. I've always figured I just wasn't one of the lucky ones gifted with a ruling passion to build my life around. So I figured "I like working with computers and bulshitting about tech, and there's money in it. I'll do that." (Yes I'm a fool.)

Apparently I don't love money enough to do bland work, though. Over the last few years I've been wondering what it would be like to be really in love with what I do, as many of my friends are or claim to be.

Only I don't know how to find something like that. I'm open for anything. A friend recommended a career counselor she knows, which I'm going to try, though I don't have high hopes.

My imagination fails me on this question. I can't make a career as a DJ with questionable beatmatching skills and a hardwired tilt toward the eclectic. I _do_ like bullshitting about tech, but the vast amounts of potential money make the tech business a weird environment. That's a factor in favor of academia, I guess.

No one has good advice on this question, by the way. Everyone who loves what they do either has wanted to do it since childhood, or tripped over the job on the street one day.

It's going to be a long, torturous journey of self-discovery I imagine. But yeah, for serious, every time I play "Dream" I'm like shit, he's right, how am I going to have a dream come true?

updates please

it was not 2:33 AM on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 as previously stated.

though my personal process of jading – attritional, incremental – was well underway by that point, i am proud to inform that subsequent experience of both negative and positive ilk have accreted new dream-stuff to pursue like psychic scarring thicker and finer than the original skin.

I like my answer of five years back, inasmuch as it captures where my head was at at the time. Tom E.'s answer about giving up on some dreams but finding new ones strikes me as v. sound, though I think I don't consciously give up, I instead supplement and reconsider. At the time of my initial answer my cooking skills were basic, I hadn't done any gardening, my photography was desultory, I'd yet to make a proper leap to living on my own rather than constantly with friends, numerous travels I'd considered were only pipe dreams and the idea of appearing in a book with a slew of my favorite writers was laughable. Not all these things were 'dreams' per se but they were all achieved, and now other ones suggest themselves. As for love, well, still being considered, but in a different and I hope wiser way. Certainly though I think a lot of things that people do see as a particular 'American' dream through my own eyes -- owning a house, having kids, etc. -- are not really mine, nor have been, and I think that's as important as fulfilling a dream...to know what actually you do want to pursue, and what is more optional for oneself.

Birth.

all your dreams will come true. all my dreams came true but now... i have a bunch of other dreams. it's gonna be hott.

i've had big bubbles in the froth burst because i expected a certain milestone of my efforts to be rewarded with "the destination". i worked really hard in college (i did things not of my peers bothered to do) and was well-regarded but came out of school and interviewed with dream companies and didn't get a job.

zoinks.

it wasn't long after a few things like that when i ascribed to two mottos:

1. "fuck a career"

i was really tired of reading the online resumes of people i respected and feeling like shit. so this is what i had to do to get THAT job. fuck. i was screwed out of the gate. (bad pun in there somewhere. but it involves my mom's nethers, so i'm moving on.) you can't stress that some jack ass was published at some retarded age and owns you. fuck that. grab a beer, fuck a career.

2. "love means the small stuff"

if you love something/someone, it's the small things. the day to day. you want to be a rocket scientist, well, buy model kits. geek out. spend as much free time as you can. engage that shit. hello, "a writer writes" start with the small shit that you love and love the hell out of it.

what's the worst that can happen?

even if you don't MAKE IT, because making it often has nothing to do with the quality of your contribution to society, you'll have spent as much of your life as possible doing that thing you love.

what better way to spend on this rock but in the pursuit of love.

it's hard to remember this. the days filled with bullshit suck and drag me away from the love. the great thing is tho, anybody can do this. everybody falls in love. (and out of love.) even nobody. (ee c.!)
m.

i don't have dreams. i have daydreams.

otm

msp, you're right. I've reached my 30's and I see now that doing what you love involves 90% doing what you don't. That's what counts, the sacrifice of your time for things that aren't fun (like practicing,practicing and more practicing), but neccessary for your dreams to happen. I think I always thought talent would pay my way, but it barely gets me in the door! It's all about sacrifice and hard work. But it feels great when I stick it out and make it through the hard/boring/uncool stuff.

WHEN I'M 27 & DEAD

or possibly when i'm 28

BT DNT WRRY EVERYONE, THE APOCALYPSE IS LOOMING

I'm about to give up on my dream of ever starting my fucking lawnmower.

I didn't realize, back in 2002, how much things were going to deteriorate, thanks primarily to familiar health problems getting out of hand (allergies/sinuses). All my new hopes are tied to relocating, but at this point it's more of a dream of just being able to live again (and have a job I don't hate, which may be more difficult).

For a time in my twenties I cherished the idea of becoming a highly accomplished poet, writing reams of great poetry. At my death, my disheveled corpse would be discovered, dressed in a foetid overcoat and surrounded by masterpieces written on brown kraft paper shopping bags.

I well understood that this dream was more or less unreachable -- unless by chance a large sum of money fell out of the sky and into my lap, thus enabling me to live in dire poverty without my ever being required to earn a paycheck. In that case, huzzah! But scan the heavens as I might, no sinecure fell upon me.

Alas, I accept that my quizzical dream of a lifetime of poverty has not come true. It was always a long shot. By age thirty I had moved on to accept the idea that I would have to work a job from time to time, thereby drastically cutting into my opportunities to recreate myself as a fritillary. However, I am holding on to the overcoat, just in case.

The problem with my dreams is that they all rule one another out -- if I want to do dream X it's going to take 10 years of work that are completely incompatible with dream Y, and in the tharn of actually choosing and deciding to pursue one I'm rather bumbling along. I've got a feeling I'll start giving up on lots of them at 30.

As you get older you learn how to do things; you also care less what other people think. Hooray. But you have to do both quickly enough to be able to do something about it. Boo.

-- jon (jon), Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:24 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

qft?

Alas, I accept that my quizzical dream of a lifetime of poverty has not come true.

HAHAHahahahaha awesome. I had similar dreams, but they kind of did come true, esp. for this one little while. Not as glamorous as they seem, BUT I will tell you walking around the very hot streets eating a bag of dried fig bits generously given to the food bank by the California Fig Commission will surely make you feel like Christ. (Also not a good feeling.)

I guess my main dream as a child was becoming a cartoonist. It's not my vision for A Career now. 1. It would be a grim and maddening career, slim bucks, severe anxiety on my part I'm sure. 2. There are a bazillion, million things I could do and do well and like for A Career, and I've finally chose one (as a goal I'm working toward) that'll be challenging, exciting, allow me my own schedule. 3. So I can do comics at other times, ie manic phases of spare time. Rofl. 4. I'm not super confident about my abilities to comicbook (see #1), FWIW.

There's a story that really resonated with me in the Bell Jar of a person under a fig tree trying to chose the right fig. Esther imagines them as her futures, an if she chooses one, all the others will rot away and die, never available again. I spent many years worrying myself very much that I wasn't choosing the right dream, but it's not like the fig tree: if you want, later, you can still choose and work toward most any of the others.

As a romantic young fop I used to worry that I was already older than Keats/Welles/McCauley Culkin were when they had created their life-defining masterpieces. Now I say to myself "But Steve Erickson didn't get HIS novel published until he was 35!".

Jerry Nipper be in my head readin my brain (though for me it was the avatars of the Lost Generation, Fitzgerald etc).

MSP & django definitely seem correct overall, I think.

it should be any day now...

I had a mid-40s philo professor who half-seriously maintained hope that he was going to write this earth-shaking book that would redefine metaphysics, but that he had to do it before he turned 57 (the age Kant was when he did the Critique).

"If I'm older than Kant when I do this thing, I'm past my expiration date!"

I've fulfilled a lot of my ambitions: own property, cook decently, publish often and at my own pace, have a job that compensates in freedom what it lacks in adequate monetary compensation. My love life is a shambles, but who's isn't? I need to publish more fiction. Since I'm not an ambitious person (whatever "stress" is, I'm not a victim), these things will happen, typically, at a pace I'll set and thus a slightly mysterious one.

At present all I can wish for are friendships as satisfying as the best art.

publish often and at my own pace

Nice feeling, isn't it?

I'm going to have to go back and read this whole thing.

If your dreams don't work out, change your dreams.

Or kill yourself!

WTF, N?

I have had one dream for as long as I can remember, and that is to write a book and get published. I reckon I've got a good fifty years to go before I have to start thinking that maybe it's not going to happen.

I have a decent (if stressful) job, a condo, a car, a great wife, I've been on TV multiple times, I've taken multiple trips outside of the US on someone else's dime, I get paid regularly to sing in ensembles and I'm in a fledgeling rock band. Really the only things I'm missing right now are having kids and getting published. (Also having a bazillion dollars but that's just a matter of time.)

Five years ago I would have given a very different answer to this question.

Now my answer is: never. Never ever. Because they will come true.

I love that beth took time out for starting her lawnmower to check in on ILx's dreams.