what's the best britisher newspaper including all of these on the wiki page

lol duplicates i'm the worst

why does british media consider sunday papers as distinct from weekday papers? that's really dumb.

history...yes it is v. dumb but on the whole the oldest Sunday papers pre-existed the dailies as conceptual lumps of hate-shit

which of these newspapers have the best comics?

well i haven't read 2 thirds of them but i'm guessing the Indie if they still have any connect with Peter Blegvad

obv the daily mail is the best one here

they really tell it how it is

i love Fred Bassett as much as the next man but come on

mordy, as a fan of sports you should think about a subscription to the sunday sport. did they cancel the daily?

i aspire to one day root for uk teams and post to i love footballs and also i'm going to start using 'u's in my spelling so i can become an honourary uker

my head says FT

my heart says guardian. without our votes and the millions of pounds of subsidy it gets from autotrader, i worry what will happen to it.

the sheffield telegraph is the best paper btw

this would be much easier in the us i think - some competition from wsj/wapost maybe but nyt is just so good imho

i should've included the jewish chronicle in the poll

xxp is it owned by one of the big dogs? the Hull Daily is a stealth Mail rag but it's not obvious

it's basically the paper of record for sheffield hallam, aka home of nick clegg, the biggest fraction of homes with incomes over 60k, and the most trees

owned by these guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Press

i've read the Leamington Lumphammer...i guess at least there's a lot of stories in there

there was a self-commendation in the guardian the other day saying the online business is making more money / losing less than it did

rusbridger has been there for 18 years now

i like the jewish chronicle

id probably like those polish/turkish papers if i could read them

online is doing ok it seems. 1/3 of online revenue comes from soulmates.

Yeah I find it hard to vote because I can't read the non-English ones

The Guardian is streets ahead on art / culture, football and education.

Most people criticising it on the other thread do so because it comes closest to what a good paper should be doing but falls short in key areas. It's the most critical of the government but seems reluctant to confidently stake out any solid territory to the left of Labour, it's the paper that cares the most about race / gender issues but spends too much time rehashing minor social-justice-tumblr stories, it's the most forward-thinking on interactivity and utilising new-media tools but often deploys them in inappropriate or comical ways, etc.

That said, there are quite a few really good writers dealing with political / social stuff (Marina Hyde, Emer O'Toole, Greenwald to some extent, etc)and they break more big, important stories than most of the others.

otm. the guardian.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would read The Times.

Even if it goes digital-only, The Guardian will probably outlast most other newspapers in some form or other because the entire point of GMG is to make enough money to support The Guardian no matter how much money the paper itself loses. Barring some kind of ridiculous mismanagement at corporate level.

I'm generally pro-the FT even when I don't agree with it, the general clarity and relative lack of spin in its news reporting (compared to every other newspaper at least) and it still bothers with a proper world news section. It lacks the awful mix of condescension and free-market dogmatism you get with The Economist. Fully supportive of Martin Wolf and his ongoing takedowns of austerity as well.

Yes, the FT is generally very good at what it does.

Write in vote for the Irish Times despite woeful trollbait online content under new editor, and death of crosaire a few years back.

dunno if the actual paper is any good but the irish times is dire on the website, shit at every level, terrible subbing, awful picture cropping, mistakes everywhere, and a woeful design. it really is at farcical levels.

Most people criticising it on the other thread do so because it comes closest to what a good paper should be doing but falls short in key areas. It's the most critical of the government but seems reluctant to confidently stake out any solid territory to the left of Labour, it's the paper that cares the most about race / gender issues but spends too much time rehashing minor social-justice-tumblr stories, it's the most forward-thinking on interactivity and utilising new-media tools but often deploys them in inappropriate or comical ways, etc.

not sure that summarises the criticisms really.

everything they do except the harder news, and to some extent sport, is vaguely irritating imo. everyone i know has good feeling towards the guardian because they are left-leaning but the amount of rank embarrassing stuff in it on a daily basis tests this. i mean i guess their business model (like most website) is throw enough mud, not necessarily their fault. it's a bit like your little brother or something, you mock it but if someone who was actually right wing did so you'd defend it.

the football site is really sensationalist and has one instance which i've banged on about numerous times of downright nastiness on a daily mail level.

there's a palpable sense of hit-chasing on the website too, everywhere. dunno if that's more heightened because i work on a website.

i keep meaning to do the trial subscription for the ft - a friend subscribes and i've read it in hers now and again, always seems good.

I would rank crosswords if I knew anything about the FT or Indie ones. Ok then Guardian > Times > Observer > Telegraph.

I always assumed the Telegraph one was the best but I'm not sure what I'm actually basing that on other the vague feeling that is has to be.

Have been enjoying that thing with the guardian website recently where sometimes the pictures are mismatched with the stories on the homepage. First thing this morning it was like this:

Interview: The Last Bee Gee - a picture of martian rocks
Puffins: They're Back - a picture of the Bee Gees
Michael Foot: Portrait Sale - two nuns on a beach
Picnics: Death of Lunch - a picture of Michael Foot
Indonesia: Nazi Cafe - a picture of some puffins

i know the whole "sad photo for sad event" thing is stupid but i still can't believe the photo they used for pierce brosnan's daughter dying.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jul/02/pierce-brosnan-daughter-dies-cancer

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2013/7/2/1372765182437/Charlotte-Brosnan-with-he-010.jpg

it's the first result in getty when you search for the two of them. i was mailing my boss about it lolling about how inappropriate it was then later that day they used it.

I would rank crosswords if I knew anything about the FT or Indie ones. Ok then Guardian > Times > Observer > Telegraph.

guardian's variety in this regard is also its strength - much prefer some of its roster of setters to others but you get attached to your favourites in a way you don't necessarily elsewhere. observer crossword is dreadful - we usually do the sun times one instead but even that's often irritating. indy one is pretty decent on the occasional time i've done it. times and telegraph on the rare time i've looked at them tend to exacerbate one of the most irritating aspects of crosswords for me ie the wilful archaic nonsense, military abbreviations and such. with guardian setters at least you'll get a mariah reference here or there, i'm still waiting on them to catch up to nicki minaj though.

observer is a decent starter xword imo. telegraph pretty simple too but it seemed when we were doing it to have clue type 'theme' days - whole load of anagrams one day, hidden words the next.

I would rank crosswords if I knew anything about the FT or Indie ones. Ok then Guardian > Times > Observer > Telegraph.

Guardian top for me - idiosyncrasy, range, fun. Indie is dead level with the daily Times puzzle imo, solid classic-crossword stuff. Am sometimes tempted to buy the Times on Saturday for the Listener puzzle, but then fuck buying the Times. Azed pushes the Observer up my list. Observer Everyman & Telegraph satisfying on a bad hangover.

Never tried the FT. I always hear it's good.

idk if simple-and-easy is really the best sort of starter - rufus in the guardian is like that too, but even when i was just starting out i just found those a bit boring and underwhelming. best way to get the bug is to do a harder but more fun one alongside a more experienced crossworder.

LG- yeah the IT website has been sloppy as fuck since the re-design. Subbing and content-wise, there's been a marked disimprovement since the editorial change last year.

I really don't get it. When I was curating the @ireland Twitter for a week I mentioned the photos and the guy who is their pic ed was like "what photo, where?" - there's regularly photos that break every rule of cropping I was ever taught, like lopping people off at the chin and stuff.

some competition from wsj/wapost maybe but nyt is just so good imho

???? wsj has taken a complete nosedive, washpo is fundamentally illiterate in major areas of their coverage (i.e. the economy) and basically permanently in thrall to power, and the nytimes despite some very good reporting in some areas of the paper is becoming more and more like new york magazine every day

http://www.csmonitor.com/

http://www.sacbee.com/

etc

anyway, wrong thread

xps on the xwords

I did start by doing the Observer Everyman w/ friends - it's a pretty decent intro imo, & we didn't really realise how easy it is, so finishing it was flattering enough to draw us in to daily puzzles (at which I/we'd fail mostly).

I think of Rufus as being a slightly different sort of easy, and a worse intro - like he's full of tiresome jokey clues, and never much fun to solve.

"despite some very good reporting in some areas of the paper is becoming more and more like new york magazine every day"

oh idk trace the parts of the NYT that really matter are still fantastic. i can even grant them styles/real estate/etc because im sure ad sales on those sections are subsidizing the good stuff. their columnist situation is dire obv and their political reporting isnt great but its still better than nearly any other paper.

if we expand to include wire services mcclatchy is really fantastic on politics.

wapo has a lot of garbage but their reporting on non-horse race political stuff, national security in particular, is really good

wsj is kind of dying yes

Indie used to be a good crossword when i did all the broadsheets on the reg. wd've rated them thusly

Graun's best setters > Indie > Times > Graun's weaker setters > Telegraph

Telegraph was pretty vanilla and easyish as i remember

lol at that long tail. But smh because I get a mention in one of the larger newspapers this week and it's not in your list :o(

The Times is the best for comment I think, in that prints less insanity than the others, but as a package I'd say The Observer

Fess up

only thinking about crosswords tho and never really bought a Sunday paper

The Scotsman fwiw, strictly for the connoisseur

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who voted the sun? can we permaban them?

kinda verging on ditto for the times

i think i voted Sunday Sport so it wasn't me

such a card

only rational response to a poll like this altho kudos to the Soviet Weekly voter

so i is like a thing?

It's not a bad idea - a radically edited down version of the Independent sold to commuters for a fraction of the price as a higher quality alternative to the freesheets.