Racist 'planned terror campaign'

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,804378,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2296481.stm

I've just realised this is the bloke the police were asking my mum about (whether she could remember him buying the bomb-making equipment at the garden centre she worked at - she couldn't).

Anyway - he's clearly gone nuts, what with his Chinese ex-wife saying she never remembers him making any racist comments. Doesn't 14 years seem a bit of a long sentence to you?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 12:29 (twenty-three years ago)

who cares, tho i'm sure he'll be out in less than half that time

― steve-o, Friday, 4 October 2002 12:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Given the amount of damage he could have done 14 years seems fair to me.

― stevo (stevo), Friday, 4 October 2002 12:38 (twenty-three years ago)

That he likes women of color doesn't indicate that he's not a racist, of course. (Hi, Momus!)

The interesting thing about this story is that there are bigger arsenals than that all over the US. Everywhere.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 4 October 2002 12:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Doesn't 14 years seem a bit of a long sentence to you?
Not really, with a cache of munitions like that he could of taken a lot of people out. He was clearly trying to stir up racial hatred to provide an excuse for a rampage and undoubtably would have killed maimed many if he had.
I'm surprised it wasn't treated as a psycho case as he obviously had some twisted agenda.

Last night's Standard had the fascinating info that his Chinese ex-wife was only 3'6" tall!

― Simeon (Simeon), Friday, 4 October 2002 12:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I just feel weird about imposing such a long sentence on someone for what they *might* do.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 13:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think the sentence was really for what he might have done, horrific as it is to imagine the consequences.
The sentence was for having huge amounts of illegal explosives and guns and actually inciting racial hatred. Fair enough I reckon it's da law.

― Simeon (Simeon), Friday, 4 October 2002 13:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, but I'm guessing that most people who daub racist graffiti don't get very long sentences and that's it's more for the arsenal. I dunno.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 13:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm inclined to agree, if they gave him a shorter sentence he'd be disarmed and known to police on his release anyway. It seems like a multiplier effect, if you have guns and are a racist then it's one thing, what if this guy had the same amount of weapons and was just a psycho, perhaps the sentence might not be as harsh, despite the risk being just as high. Is this fair? Is a racially motivated attack worse than just an attack, even if it is should the sentence be different

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 4 October 2002 13:24 (twenty-three years ago)

and if different, *that* different?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also you begin introducing the law as a moral judgement at the same time as you try and say "oh we're keeping this guy in because he's a danger to society", and as usual the moral judgement is quite tricky.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Alright Nick, user your skills and find out what CD it was they found.

― Graham (graham), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I was 'Viva Hate'

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

And the CD was?

― Richard Jones (scarne), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't get it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:31 (twenty-three years ago)

The sentence was for having huge amounts of illegal explosives and guns guns and actually inciting racial hatred
er, hang on - WAS IT?

Leaving aside whether or not he's actually been sentenced yet (the BBC report talks about "could face...", this guy was convicted of "two charges of racially aggravated criminal damage" relating solely to the racist graffiti incidents. Not for hoarding explosives, which didn't even come out at the trial.

Perhaps N. is pondering thus: if another racist had been convicted of the racist slogans, but had no cache of arms, would the sentence be in the 14 years ballpark? (I don't know)

― Jeff W (Jeff W), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry - those reports may not have been up to date. The judge took the (earlier) explosives conviction into account when sentencing, according to the radio this morning.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 14:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I sense an upcoming link to the "hate crimes: classic or dud" thread.

Anyway err Nick we seem to be living at a pretty peak time for handing down harsh sentences on things people were plotting to do, and I don't doubt that officials here would, in defending themselves, apply some of the same rationale they apply to terrorism. If you find an extremist with a bomb and a plan to blow something up, you don't just seize the bomb; here we sort of have a different kind of extremist with a different kind of bomb and a different kind of (alleged) plan.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:25 (twenty-three years ago)

"Judge Mary Jane Mowat has adjourned sentencing for three weeks while a psychiatric report is prepared."

Looking again at the link, you're right, he did plead guilty earlier to amassing the illegal armoury. For that conviction alone, I can understand why the sentence might be a long one.

― Jeff W (Jeff W), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Jeff has me "bang to rights", he's been convicted, awaiting sentencing pending psychiatric reports.
I find the whole thing of his graffiti being anti-white very odd though, and although provocative, is anything he wrote actually illegal or racist? ("all whites are shit", "black powa" etc)

― Simeon (Simeon), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Detectives came to the conclusion that a white man was daubing the slogans to stir up racial tension.
By this, I assumed he wanted white people in the area to assume that the graffit was written by black people.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

[problem - there aren't any black people in Witney. Well maybe four]

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Sure, I understand why he would it. Just find it odd that he thought it would actually achieve anything. I guess you're OTM when you say he's clearly nut's.

I seem to remember the CD was Jimi Hendrix, it was definately a black artist.
(Nick - you typed 'I was...' not 'it was...' , geddit now?)

― Simeon (Simeon), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh yeah.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 4 October 2002 15:57 (twenty-three years ago)

buying the bomb-making equipment at the garden centre...

I've always avoided going near these places, but Nick makes them sound rather livelier than I had imagined.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 4 October 2002 18:11 (twenty-three years ago)

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