what do you do with a good friend who never calls or emails on their own but u know they have major problems with calling and emailing?

There's no immediately easy answer here, but it does sound like, from the fact of him losing someone who wasn't merely a best friend but a love of his life, that he needs at least some perspective, somebody to point out how he should step back a bit and consider. If the whole question of accomplishing something is really gnawing at him, it's best to point out that there's always time, time to surprise himself with what he can yet do.

Perhaps this is no help at all. But it's the immediate impression I get.

And I don't know if I was looking for any type of "quick-fix" answers anyway as I don't think there even is an answer for this, it's one of those unsolveable situations that will play out in time however it does.. I don't think that girl was one of his best friendst hough, but a best friend too he was physical w/.. if he lost both of us it would be overwhelming so I'm not doing anything for now..

I was just expressing some frustration - better this here than writing *him* an angry email that I would regret later!

And I agree about the academic work - oh boy, does anyone know like me the horrors of procrastination. ned u have a phd from somewhere right?

yah, i was thinking that but i didnt want to think it, i just didnt want to think it but now i have to think it, sigh is right

well thanks for replying. im going to start a thread on what i just saw on television since i didnt really do anything tonight( aside from find myself back to ILX where i can whine and bitch like a baby!)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHA

I've suffered from depression for a few years now. One of the bad effects is on self-esteem: you think you're worthless => no one wants you or is interested, and you deserve this. This makes it almost unimaginably hard to initiate contact, to ask for anything from even people who have given every indication over a period of years that they like you and want your friendship. This is most true for me at the times I most need that friendship. I think that largely because of this I've done a poor job of being a friend to some of the people I love most, in the last year or so particularly, and I sometimes worry that I may be losing some of these friends because of this, and because too often lately I've not been much fun to be with. If this is anything similar to what is happening with your friend, I'd say he needs your help and patience and support, but I realise that doesn't make it any easier on you, having to do all the chasing and the maintenance work.

So yes, it's sort of unfair, and possibly just a bad habit on the other person's part that everyone's always accommodated -- but if he's a good guy when you do get hold of him, and he appreciates your calling and wanting to see or talk to him, maybe it's not so terrible to pick up a little more than your share of the organizing of that. Calling people and asking them to do things requires a certain amount of presumption -- like hitting on strangers in bars -- and some people just aren't great with that, so they rely on other people to tell them when they're interested in doing things. This needn't necessarily be worse than always buying a couple drinks for the friend who has less money than you -- "unfair," technically, but it's just sort of negotiating the different things people are most able to provide to the friendship.

above all don't listen to gareth. "if you can't be bothered to call etc": NO it is not lazyness or a fuck-you mentality or whatever, however easy or commonsense this conclusion may seem to you. it's difficult to explain why some ppl have this problem (and different for everyone too) but rest assured it IS difficult to call back. but you can never change it by confrontation, cos then he will draw back again, or at most give the half arsed "improvement" that got mentioned too part of it is the problem but the other damning part is the commonsense side telling him it's strange and pathetic. he knows already: don't embarrass him. but you have to let him come to understand himself however long that might be. and when he does, just be there like you were before. don't go over it. he is probably thinking you have given up on him, cos he would have too. the longer it goes on the more it crushes everyone, but it does come to an end. be patient, don't try to understand it.

Why, then, can I post to ILX and sometimes chat online? I don't know. Partly because it's not one-to-one, so I don't feel quite so much like I'm intruding and it feels open for all; obviously if got any clear indication that I was unwelcome I'd leave you alone. Especially with IRC, it's partly because it's more real-time, so it's easier to adjust or retract statements if it seems they're unpopular or not being understood. I'm a spineless wimp and one who will agonise about the exact phrasing forever if I let myself, so it's easier to get round to something like that.

I don't see myself as having a severe problem, but this might well be a lesser version of what people with real issues think. Is it worth mentioning? Probably not, I definitely don't have any solutions and maybe it's nothing like how it feels for your friend, but maybe it's some insight. I suppose I was just annoyed by "how much effort is it to send even a 3 line email?", not even because it's untrue but because I suppose rationally it IS true and I really am that lazy or pathetic that I can't/won't do it or see it like that.

- thank you all very much for replying to this thread, and my apologies for not responding myself to your responses earlier, but
i was gona all day helping one of my friends on his film, so i couldnt check the board..

- all your words & encouragement helped: yes, i am definitely sticking w/ this friendship...as i had already decided before, i knew it was worth it. I think some of you wrote adressing this as if it was a new problem for me..it isn;t, I definitely have and continue to thinki of this from HIS side of it - It;s just that I have been in this friendship for over 4 years and things haven't changed, and sometimes.... I wonder if I am being taken for granted....(and it's human for me to only wonder that)..

But I know I'm not, because duh, how many times have I been proven wrong, countless times. And that was the reason his other friend, that girl, recently ended it with him, she thought she was being taken for granted, and that's more than reason enough to stick with him now - when he needs me the *most.* Obviously, she was wrong, since he's talked a lot about how awful he feels that she got hurt by him...he just has this problem. He was in tears last time talking about it.

So why did I post all that then? Because...I am still human, like I said, and it was probably my insecurity posting last night (took over me, types just like me too!). I'm strong enough to put up with this, I've adapted to this for so many years now, yes it hurts, but the rewards, his companionship, is more than worth it... and one other thing I remembered reading all your postings of "have pateince with him,": the last time he *did* call on his own,I told him how goodi t made me feel and how I so thought he had done such a good thing, and later he told me that me saying that meant so much to him..just to hear that he had done something *right* for a chane..since it helped his whole can't-accomplish-anything complex, in his academic life too, and he desperately needed the positive reinforcement at the time. I forgot about this last night. And just now I got over my stupid ego and emailed him a melodramatic "we're still friends??!!" query which was really silly which I'm sure he's going to respond to in a semi-humorous manner, since he knows exactly what I mean by asking such a facile question....I was just letting my insecure pride standing in the way of sending email thurssday or friday night, and then i got melancholy...i should have done that in the first place!

But I just wanted it to be, well, HIS turn. I was feeling un-reciprocared (ist hat a word?). I'm sure you've felt that before..

- And now themost important part of my post: the part relating to YOU, since so many of you talked about your own similar communicativeness problems in your postings. Please, if u can take anything at all away from this irrelvant, lil' ILM thread out of zillions, just let it be this: remember that it matters. Remember, that even though it may be so hard for some of you to make contact as it is w/ Rebecca, your true friends (the real ones out there) DO want to hear from you, nearly *always* (yes there are exceptions but we're not discussing those), you are NOT going to annoy them...and whether or not you comunicate with them DOES MAKE A MAJOR, MAJOR difference. Take it from someone on the other, constantly-callign side!! We need to know that you love us too!!

So at the risk of getting abhorrently sanctimonious, self-righteous and preachy here, can I just say: next time, if you ever are between the decision of whether or not you should "bother your friends," or call them, make that "unnecessary" phone call, or emal or not...please do it. It's never unnecessary. You may not realize just ****how much**** it may mean to the other person..and please try even if you are under academic stress since thats the only way we can know that *you're OK* w/ yor stress...since see, your friends may be hesitating to call too thinking that they may be bothering you as well!! All relationships require a minimum amount of commuincation to operate, a healthy amount to thrive. If it is difficult to you, make sure you let your frieends know that is and that you will welcome constant-commincation from their part, and reassure them that they shouldn't feel uncomfortable or insecure in taking all or most of the keeping-in-ttouch efforts in their pressured hands. Realize that just as hard as it is for you to contact them, if you never do it, it may be even harder for them. Much harder.

Reading all your posts was kind of disheartening in a way, since it made me wonder whether we really are all more isolated and cut off from each other than we may even think... shouldn't we all just make even more effort to come out of our shells after finding this out about ourselves? Go ahead (::cue corny piano::) - write that email, have that get-together, send those flowers.

If you feel the love, share it..how short is this life, and what are you WAITING for? Don't put it off (what work is more important?), make that phone call. You never know...

...your friendships just might be depending on it (and really really really, you may not even know, like my friend, my precious friend)

sincerely,

vik

haha, like "A Dance to the Music of Time"?