Rolling 2014 Thread on Race

So this year I figured, let's not include 'racism' in the thread title

This thread is intended for discussing, as DJP puts it, modern issues about race in society

Racist incidents are of course a part of that. But I'm hoping to sidestep some of the more garden-variety, unremarkable racism that does nothing more than to remind us that yes, there are still bona fide racists out there. If you're reading this thread I think you're well aware of that.

Mostly just tired of something interesting getting posted in this thread, only to have it ignored in favor of something Obviously Racist that's not really interesting at all

Starting off the thread by reposting this excellent piece wrapping up last year

http://gawker.com/the-year-in-racial-amnesia-1475833936

Will drop this here too

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10187051/view/full/rembert-browne-year-end-bracket

2013 was incredible, because it played out exactly how I hoped it would. Week in and week out, I would cycle between being insulted, impressed, shocked, dumbfounded, and enlightened by either someone's behavior or someone's critique of said behavior. And, ultimately, I loved it. I can't think of a messier year in my lifetime, in the sense that people were existing with an almost reckless abandon, with discussions previously too taboo to breach exploding everywhere.

The idea of cultural appropriation can mean myriad things, but the rocket fuel behind its rise in 2013 was the question of how we talk about and react to race (and other oft-polarizing issues) in mixed settings. Cultural appropriation has been occurring forever, but it has been long addressed in homogenous silos. In 2013, that changed. We all saw Miley's transformation in 2013 and felt required to talk about it. Kanye West forced discussions of race on everyone, and in turn became the most relevant, polarizing, and discussed artist of his generation. And Macklemore's existence alone made it seem like you had to take a stance on Macklemore's existence — and almost always in ways that had nothing to do with his music or who he was as a person.

But what really stood out in 2013 was the extent to which it was impossible to escape the dialogue itself. It's easy to see much of what happened in 2013 in a negative light. But if you look at the way these explosions of distress were processed by the culture, it didn't always break down along the lines you'd expect. The year helped shine a light on two groups of people, "people who get it" versus "people who don't." And "get it" doesn't just mean the people who don't wear blackface on Halloween. It's the people who truly understand why you shouldn't wear blackface on Halloween. And go out of their way to express why it's inexcusable. And actually feel emotions, like shame and embarrassment, when it takes place.

Through all the mess, that's what stands out about cultural appropriation in 2013. The fact that, through a newfound ability to talk about things, there was a discourse redistricting. And, like it or not, it wouldn't have happened had Miley not become the ambassador for twerking and an assortment of other things that have been labeled as "minstrelsy," had Lorde not written lyrics for "Royals" that could have been misconstrued as racially insensitive, had the Washington http://images.chron.com/blogs/askacat/hatcat.JPG not continued to remain the Washington http://images.chron.com/blogs/askacat/hatcat.JPG, had Macklemore not struck gold with "Thrift Shop" and "Same Love," had the Harlem Shake been titled something different from a dance popularized a decade earlier, and had Kanye not made songs called "New Slaves" and "Black Skinhead" and then produced apparel decorated with Confederate flags.

A ton of uncomfortable things happened in 2013. But we finally began talking about them together. Declaring cultural appropriation as the winner of 2013 signifies that, for 12 months, we all kind of lost. But I'll take a short-term mess in exchange for long-term progress any day.

Here's to hoping that's exactly what 2013 was. Not the year we wanted, but the year we needed.

And with that, the bracket is over. Now get me the hell out of 2013.

Excellent

Kanye West forced discussions of race on everyone, and in turn became the most relevant, polarizing, and discussed artist of his generation.

*yawn*

Great insight. Excellent observation

Fair enough.

To the writer's credit, "relevant, polarizing, and discussed" don't necessarily imply the fawning that I usually get from too many writers on Kanye (the very thing that I quickly assumed was taking place here), but the failure of many critics to engage with the fact of what an ugly (and I don't mean sonically) piece of work Yeezus is--or to bring up certain troubling aspects of the work before quickly sweeping them under the rug, citing them as evidence of his "brilliance"--was one of the more annoying things about following music and popular culture in 2013.

two types of ppl

xp +1
my main method of coping with the post-pop approach of kanye's fashion politics or politics of fashion or whatever the hell you want to call the ill-considered fame-and-money-based ethos of oversimplification that walks alongside the swift decline of his music has been just to stop paying attention to him once i've listened to the product enough to determine it ain't me babe
bound is nice tho'

To the writer's credit, "relevant, polarizing, and discussed" don't necessarily imply the fawning that I usually get from too many writers on Kanye (the very thing that I quickly assumed was taking place here), but the failure of many critics to engage with the fact of what an ugly (and I don't mean sonically) piece of work Yeezus is--or to bring up certain troubling aspects of the work before quickly sweeping them under the rug, citing them as evidence of his "brilliance"--was one of the more annoying things about following music and popular culture in 2013.

― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Wednesday, January 1, 2014 8:07 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

Okay but there are probably other threads to bring this to? Like afaict you just want to discuss Kanye As An Artist which there are already like a million threads devoted to. But if you want to turn the thread for serious discussion of issues about race into another ILM critfest circlejerk then feel free to go right on ahead

"and that's true too"

xpost

Not particularly, no, and you're right--ILX doesn't need another thread about, or being taken over by, Kanye. But the quote (referenced in a thread I bookmarked because I wanted to read/participate in serious discussions about race) mentioned it in a summation of how racial issues played out in the media in 2013, so I assumed it was fair game. Still, there was a lot more going on there and I highlighted the brief mention of Kanye with my (non-)comment, and I apologize. Let's talk about other things.

is this the thread where we rank the-dream albums?

it's not like i come in to troll this thread on a regular basis or am against what it's about

― k3vin k., Friday, 20 December 2013 22:51 (1 week ago) Permalink

oh you

look can we just agree that whole paragraph is embarrassing but isn't really worth wasting the race thread on

did any mainstream media even acknowledge the cultural appropriation critique wrt miley? everything i saw was either about it being too sexy or her tongue

I think there were some segments in mainstream media outlets (maybe just cable) on the Harlem Shake but I don't recall any with Miley

how is espn not mainstream media???

Well please refresh our memory, balls

Or do you mean Grantland-via-ESPN

yes

Grantland is a boutique media outlet. It's artisanal. Like Wing Street to ESPN's Pizza Hut

so you're using the palin definition for mainstream media

Yes. Lamestream trash

http://i.imgur.com/OpqQbwn.png

http://i.imgur.com/infgMay.png

I dunno, man. Make of that what you will

in that case you're correct, diane sawyer did not suddenly stop in the middle of the evening news and talk about miley and cultural appropriation

I mean I assume that's what flopson was talking about. Obviously it was all over Salon/Atlantic/Slate/Gawker/Grantland etc.

nor did brian williams or someone named scott pelley. and hence it was not discussed in the mainstream media. also if you want to include espn.go.com you are correct, they did not plaster 'BTW MILEY A RACIST' in their boxscore for game three of the world series. they do however give more prominent placement to grantland pieces on espn.go.com than they do for any other non-simmons approved commentary.

Maybe your point was that Stuart Scott interrupted his reporting on who made the Orange Bowl to tell viewers to head over to Grantland.com/articles/Miley-appropriation-twerk-looking-for-pagehits.com? In which case yes, I must have missed that

xp I guess we're on the same wavelength!

balls is annoying, who cares, i don't even think we actually disagree, my point was just i wonder how "inescapable" these discussions were for most americans. i agree with the piece that it certainly felt like this year crossed some threshold and a lot more ppl were talking about race. but while watching tv at my mom's over the holidays all the 2013 in review segments on talk shows all focused on miley, but foam finger and tongue, not twerking or singing into a butt. made me think like wait is that what everyone thought was so controversial?

there is nothing cultural that isn't 'inescapable' in america in 2013 (predict the pattern holds for 2014). cf all the ilxors going 'wtf is duck dynasty' a couple of weeks ago.

Hey I worked long and hard on this inescapability-proof bubble and I want my efforts to be acknowledged.

i'm not sure that being in such a bubble necessarily requires as much work as you're attributing, which may or may not be an issue

Don't be ridiculous, my parents think the federal reserve doing its job is "scary" and would feel better if we were back on the gold standard, where "money" "means" something. I built every inch of this pink bubble with my own two hands.

lol i read you completely opposite my bad, yr efforts should be acknowledged

balls is annoying, who cares, i don't even think we actually disagree, my point was just i wonder how "inescapable" these discussions were for most americans. i agree with the piece that it certainly felt like this year crossed some threshold and a lot more ppl were talking about race. but while watching tv at my mom's over the holidays all the 2013 in review segments on talk shows all focused on miley, but foam finger and tongue, not twerking or singing into a butt. made me think like wait is that what everyone thought was so controversial?

― flopson, Wednesday, January 1, 2014 9:10 PM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah. it's weird when the majority of the criticism you hear is about the cultural appropriation but the majority of what everyone else heard was only about sexuality, her role-modeliness, etc. there were two completely different arguments happening, one in which miley was a feminist hero and one in which she was racist. she gained an enormous liberal fanbase this year! and the two arguments never really met except when stray commenters would respond to the appropriation charges with "STOP SLUTSHAMING". i think appropriation generally isn't something the mainstream will ever care about or really be able to grasp in a culture reliant on thinkpieces shared on facebook.

by mainstream you mean "white mainstream" right, because i think certain things were acutely felt more broadly. also i don't think 'appropriation' was as much a concern, in this latter conversation, than was minstrelsy and exploitation.

White mainstream - is there any other kind

yes?

i mean that's sort of what i'm talking about? before this thing became such a huge media whatever with all the DEFEND MILEY people coming out of the woodwork, my impression was that the actual issue was about race, because my impression of "mainstream" was different than what ended up happening in time magazine or w/e. there are different mainstreams but if a story gets big enough, the whitest and most racistest mainstream is gonna win out and miley is gonna come out of it stronger than ever.

Really got sick of people saying "What I love about her is she just does what she wants!" as if that's an excuse for any behavior at all.

Not really sure why anyone takes anything she does seriously, no matter the context.

she's so unbearably trivial and foisting racial arguments on her behavior seems to trivialize them to a degree

Really got sick of people saying "What I love about her is she just does what she wants!" as if that's an excuse for any behavior at all.

It's terrible in people supporting politicians: here, in Boris Johnson; in Toronto you get that impression about Rob Ford. I don't get why being completely unfiltered is seen as a good thing.

tons of people do racist things, lots of them are stupid or make bad art or w/e. that fact doesn't/can't trivialize the problems that racism engenders. there's no "foisting" racial arguments "on her." she has engaged in racism.

nice rolling 2014 miley cyrus thread guyz

Cool that we're two days into the year and half a dozen witedudes have already tried to derail the convo itt.

all witedude posters on ilx should have to have some kind of icon next to their dn so we know who they are. like maybe a pale smiley face or something.

Works for me.

I couldn't get the icon to work, so hopefully this will suffice

The unexamined assumption that breaking the law gives the police carte blanche to kill you, REGARDLESS OF THE ACTUAL LAW YOU ARE BREAKING, is particularly enraging.

xp It's easier if you translate for her to "I refuse to live in a world where my viewpoint isn't the ONLY one represented. Challenges to my worldview may result in your death and I'm fine with that."

"easier"

I mean on a scale of "I'm so outraged that I can't comprehend how you and your viewpoint can even exist" to "I see what you did there."

I'm not sure if people are wearing that to be tasteless - I think they mean it.

How racist are you that you hope someone sees that on your chest?

They should go back to their confederate flag gear - no shortage of that in Eastern Indiana.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-boy-executed-s-conviction-overturned-article-1.2048611

that's the saddest picture

http://priceonomics.com/the-most-and-least-diverse-cities-in-america/
http://pix-media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/867/diversity.png

It's easier if you translate for her to "I refuse to live in a world where my viewpoint isn't the ONLY one represented. Challenges to my worldview may result in your death and I'm fine with that."

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, December 18, 2014 10:01 AM (Yesterday)

yeah, in a nutshell. also just crushed the braindead myopia of "obey the law" dude right after her. "if we all obey the law the law, always, without ever giving anyone even the slightest cause to think any law, however minor, even might have been broken, why then the police won't have to shoot hundreds, perhaps thousands of people a year. it's so simple!"

xps - not surprised but still smh @ portland. whiter than colorado springs ffs

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice

Tom 3W1Ng points out the title is a bit click-baity but here's some of the science behind racial bias

some interesting self-tests on the site linked in that MJ article: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/index.php

not sure about the scientifically validity of the results, but diverting

Get ready to puke: Andrew Sullivan on The Bell Curve:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/22/excuse-me-mr-coates/

I realize that some people reading might not be American, or may have been very young when The Bell Curve came out.

Here is some background:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/Charles-Murray

It discusses how Murray relied on the work of racist researchers.

When will Sullivan not be a thing anymore

I'm running out of "oy veys"

More on Sullivan's willful ignorance:

http://drx.typepad.com/psychotherapyblog/2011/11/andrew-sullivan-iq-research.html

He said IQ research was being "strangled" because of objections that it is racist.

I had a good course in anthropology in college, and the prof said it isn't even clear what IQ measures, other than that you were taught how to take a test. He also talked about "race" as a scientific concept and how anthropologists reject this. That class stuck with me, and I've been fascinated with these topics ever since. I mean the AEI supported Murray, and look how well-funded they are. That's what bothers me!

yeah Sullivan is basically a pseudoscientist afaic

There is a lot of good literature on the problems with IQ testing and the extent to which it measures kinds of thinking people are trained to do (as opposed to "pure innate ability"). For example I vaguely remember research done where they gave IQ tests to people in small, somewhat isolated farming villages in eastern europe or something along those lines, and there were certain aspects of the test that they just didn't comprehend because they had not been trained to do particular kinds of abstract thinking that we take for granted. An example I remember was something having to do with grouping objects by (abstract) category (shape, classification, etc.), whereas subjects would tend to group things by more real-world categories, like "I would take all these things with me on a journey."

A better response than Sullivan's:

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/12/22/whats-jeet-heer-afraid-of/

still think 'debating' the bell curve legitimates it in ways that are more insidious than Sully's defense of his 20-year-old tenure as TNR's editor.

still not particularly good though
he's painting the rejection due to being some kind of liberal fear of dangerous ideas but really do we really need to give the flat-earthers a podium?

xp yeah, "debating" it is nonsense

it isn't even clear what IQ measures, other than that you were taught how to take a test.

lol this has been my argument since, like, junior high school

I think like a lot of things it's possible we don't all have the same "ceiling" in how well we could possibly do on an IQ test, and some people may be able to learn the measured skills more easily/quickly than others, but it's also clear that it measures skills that can be learned and developed (whether from directly preparing a test or indirectly from other kinds of activities). Like, the first time I ever saw an IQ test, I had no idea what to do with those shapes you're supposed to mentally rotate, for example.

Coates: http://gawker.com/ta-nehisi-coates-responds-its-a-privilege-for-me-to-b-1674748746

still not particularly good though
he's painting the rejection due to being some kind of liberal fear of dangerous ideas but really do we really need to give the flat-earthers a podium?

At the time, publications further to the left dealt with it better: they discussed the funding and history of this shit.

I think TNR has always been rub, but when they did that, it hurt, what's more I think they know it did. This was during the "Culture Wars" when a lot of centrist types published stuff that essentially portrayed "minorities" - especially black people - as a pain in the ass and not worth paying attention to. TNR knowingly abused privilege in doing what they did, and the reasons were bad.

Jeet Heer has a good response in the comments of that DeBoer post:

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/12/22/whats-jeet-heer-afraid-of/#comment-79771

The thing is, mainstream publications were caught off-guard at the time : they were ill-prepared and ignorant. They didn't seem to know what The Pioneer Fund was, for example. It was irresponsible.

The Bell Curve received positive reviews in major newspapers and was taken seriously by Time and Newsweek.

Some of my favorite pieces were in Skeptic magazine, where they know the background and don't look like idiots when discussing science.

TNC is such a cool dude

this was my favorite part of deboer's piece, lol

The argument isn’t that this racial achievement gap isn’t real; if it wasn’t, then essentially the entire fields of educational testing, assessment, cognitive and developmental psychology, sociology, and psychometrics would be a massive racist conspiracy.

well...

(initially highlighted by tom scocca)

(freddie's post was good btw)

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/25/business/for-recent-black-college-graduates-a-tougher-road-to-employment.html?_r=0

recent statistics show that, even among recent college graduates, there is an enormous gap in employment between blacks and whites. black recent graduates have unemployment rates twice the national overall average

About that far-right conference that Steve Scalise (R - Louisiana) spoke at:

http://cenlamar.com/2014/12/28/house-majority-whip-steve-scalise-was-reportedly-an-honored-guest-at-2002-international-white-supremacist-convention/

Okay...HOW is this? "EURO" is "the European-American Unity and Rights Organization." Sorry, that does not sound "innocuous"!

This is a couple years old (came out during the whole KONY thing) but I think relates to what is being discussed in more concrete ways: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-white-savior-industrial-complex/254843/

like, thinking about the ramifications of what exactly it means beyond abstractions abt systemic vs personal

― deej loaf (D-40), Sunday, October 5, 2014 3:09 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

belated thanks for linking to this, deej. I think this was the first time I heard of Teju Cole. I read both of his books over xmas break, and they're well worth checking out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/nyregion/in-new-york-city-a-toll-is-newly-felt-as-asians-rise-in-the-police-ranks.html

This is contentious on a number of levels but an interesting perspective:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/a-cop-in-ukraine-said-he-was-detaining-me-because-i-was-black-i-appreciated-it/

belated thanks for linking to this, deej. I think this was the first time I heard of Teju Cole. I read both of his books over xmas break, and they're well worth checking out.

― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Friday, January 2, 2015 8:01 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ive only read open city, amazing book, very intense twist

is there a 2015 thread yet?

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/1.640997

Crazy

http://www.messynessychic.com/2015/04/09/the-kkk-application-form/
Is the motive prompting your inquiry serious?

Do you honestly believe in the practice of REAL fraternity?

no 2015 thread explicitly for this yet, eh?
anyways:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/06/misty-copeland-athlete/397364/

i would welcome some thoughts on if this is trolling, poor consideration or a reasonable point

not sure. is the point of the article that her career breakthrough goes hand in hand with her total commercialization?

just that the first black prima ballerina at ABT is presented as an "athlete" not an artist; seems like charged language

There's a 2015 Rolling Thread on Race

Rolling 2015 Thread on Race

thanks, missed it; will move.

i've seen an elmo scream at people, think it was this guy
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/anti-semitic-elmo-year-jail-girls-scout-extort-article-1.1480585

― PSY talks The Nut Job (forksclovetofu), Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:34 PM (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anti-semitic-elmo-year-jail-girls-scout-extort

this could be an excerpt from a Skinny Puppy song

― Fight the Powers that Be with this Powerful Les Paul! (DJP), Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:36 PM (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so this guy has been living in a van parked a few blocks from our place, in a residential area, terrorizing the locals and leading to an amazingly long NextDoor thread (when he's not hanging out by the L.A. Zoo in his elmo outfit)