Disney's newest movie FROZEN, loosely based on The Snow Queen

I don't think we ever created a thread for this one? And then it went on to make a shitload of money and its soundtrack displaced Beyonce at #1?

I've seen it twice cuz lol disney nerd, and I've also been following discussions of it on the social justice-y parts of tumblr. It's the first Disney animated feature to have a female (co-)director, and it also has instances of Disney visibly struggling to address past criticisms of sexism/bad female role-modeling (a song about how the male love interest is a "fixer-upper" also includes the line "I'm not saying you can change him, 'cause people don't really change"; when it's time for the male love interest to kiss the girl at the end of the movie, he asks her permission first). But the cast is also 100% white people and I've seen complaints about how Disney used Sami culture in it (I'm less familiar with the particulars of that criticism).

Also the snowman isn't anywhere near as bad as the trailers made him out to be, and there are two gags lifted directly from Arrested Development.

also also i have my own idiosyncratic problems with it, particularly that the story is about two sisters who start the movie ADORABLY close to one another, and then the driving plot action is to have them stop being close for about a decade of their lives. the two little sisters being friends was SO CUTE and then they never really regain that relationship, even at the end when they are ostensibly reconciled.

I lasted til the second awful "I am a hopeful, empowered female" ballad. Horrific music.

My niece (7) loves it though. I'll be hearing the rest of it in the car next summer.

oh i also forgot to mention the movie's weird treatment of villainy! elsa/the snow queen is viewed by her kingdom as a villain, but she's not really; there is a conniving old man from another kingdom who insists she is a villain for political purposes; and then there is a SURPRISE VILLAIN whose cruelty felt like a cop-out to me, because it neatly "solves" a plot issue that would've otherwise been quite thorny and surprisingly nuanced for a disney film to handle! idk if i should get too spoilery about it at this point, maybe later.

my main problem with it is that there was way way to much sister and not enough Elsa being a bad ass snow queen. And too many songs. It focuses so much on the sister who just basically wants to marry a prince; I know there are a few twists in this, but Brave it is not.

sorta bummed about this movie tbh since andersen's 'the snow queen' is my favorite fairy tale of all time and it makes me cringe to think of it being given the 'disney musical' treatment.

The sidekick is egregious and not funny; he was made to sell plush toys.

The music is AWFUL.

My niece (7) loves it though. I'll be hearing the rest of it in the car next summer.

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius),

you and me both, brutha

sung by the kid, offkey to boot

Knowing Disney this was made for gay uncles taking nieces to the movies on winter break.

not me! that's what mom is for.

The sidekick is egregious and not funny; he was made to sell plush toys.

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, January 11, 2014 2:09 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

i dont know how many of these things you've seen but i promise he could've been so much worse

i was just blindsided today to learn how enormously popular this movie is. #42 on the highest grossing movies of all-time and #171 on the list adjusted for inflation.

the trailers made it look so awkward and ugly that i assumed it just kinda quietly slid out of theaters after doing decent numbers.

this movie was pretty awesome

yeah it was supposed to do comfortable box office and fade through Xmas and instead it actually got MORE popular with each week.

Josh Gad has now starred in a blockbuster animated feature, a Broadway hit, a primetime sitcom, and has been a Daily Show correspondent. and I've never heard of anybody liking him the slightest bit.

him & clark duke seem to have had disproportionate success

maybe "Jonah Hill is too busy/too expensive to do this" is an extremely fertile niche to occupy right now

plus Jonah Hill plays a Disney sidekick in WOWS.

clark duke sorta makes me irrationally angry. hes just this bland fuckin lump of shit

i first knew josh gad from that one episode of party down, but admittedly i can't remember if he was good in it.

gad's good in this though. if you've been exposed to enough of these movie sidekicks that are basically Animated Hitlers, you really appreciate how un-shitty Olaf The fucktard Snowman actually is

Charlie Saxton is outchea waiting for any roles Hill, Gad, and Duke all turned down too

don't forget Josh Gad's role as Steve Wozniak in JOBS!

this movie made a metric fuckton of money. was also one of the 2 films in the top 10 grossing of 2013 that wasnt a remake or sequel. (gravity is the other)

Yeah, I liked this very much, although I felt like they didn't spend any time setting up the "SURPRISE VILLAIN". My son disagreed with me though and pretty much could tell that SURPRISE VILLAIN was a villain from the start.

i could too. his lips were too thin or something.

i saw this in french by the way!!

how was it

i was surprised by the surprise villain and thought it was a cool twistaroo, the only visual cue i can think of that hinted at it is that he has sideburns

it was good in french. it was nice not knowing who was doing the voices.

when the ice-cutters were singing at the beginning i was sort of imagining that the whole thing was taking place in northern quebec or something

(spoilers for the SECRET VILLAIN)

when i saw this the first time, i thought it was super-weird but kinda interesting that anna was basically experiencing two different kinds of disney love stories simultaneously: "love at first sight" and "this shared journey will bring us closer together and we'll fall in love." i was wondering how the hell they were going to have her deal with it; making one of the guys a secret sociopath felt like a cheap way to resolve things, particularly when there was a scene early on where the secret sociopath looks adoringly at anna when no one else is around to observe his private actions.

then again someone on metafilter said it was a great plot device because it teaches young girls to never trust a man they've just met because he might be a secret sociopath.

it was good in french. it was nice not knowing who was doing the voices.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Saturday, January 11, 2014 8:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i actually didnt recognize anyone's voices, which was really refreshing

XP: yeah, that was my experience as well. When I.saw that dichotomy set up, I was expecting it to lead to a more mature resolution.

This is my favorite movie of 2013. Felt it worked in every way, as a work addressing the Disney formula filmmaking-wise and politically, as a musical with great numbers, as a story on its own, the characters were captivating and unpredictable, the sidekick was not annoying but contributed positively to the humor and warmth of the story. Genuinely feels like the perfect Disney film. The villain twist: Why does it need to set up the surprise villain if he's a surprise villain? When we don't follow him along every step. She didn't get to know him and thought he was worth marrying - we didn't get to know him and thought he was marriage material, and then when we do get to know him - surprise, he's an asshole. Some people are, that's what I got out of it, and to be sure that's true.

Ideologically speaking, unlike Brave, where the female character is predictably the victim of a plot where that's something she has to defend herself again, work out, not just a character on her own, Frozen is not about her being female, it just follows naturally the relationship between two women, and some male side characters. There's no visible 'struggle' with subverting the limited Disney princess role.

Above all Frozen shows us how necessary it is to have a Disney in form to get big old musicals at their best in cinemas. There are no other films like this in 2013 or any year and when they've worked out their kinks like this the future should be bright. Jennifer Lee is one to watch, anyway.

Those moments when Elsa hurt Anna (physically) and was close to killing off her and some soldiers were wonderfully tense without being too loud about it, thrilling in that you weren't exactly sure what to make of her as a character (a good thing) and what it would to do her, what she would do to others, and of course the swagger of the Let It Go sequence, a character expressing the thrill of being something special and alone and not only gloom and emo over it. So many COOL moments animations-wise as she established her snow kingdom.

but what about those horrendous songs?

I did guess the 'surprise' ending, or at least what it entailed...

Not because I'm so brainy, there was a massive clue about 30 mins before the end.

http://everythingwrongwithfrozen.tumblr.com/

recommended reading

shit. I hadn't even thought of it that way.

#I'm going to turn into a cat I'm so mad

So I guess this movie is a giant hit? Makes sense. Not only has there been little animated competition this season, but the weather has driven a lot of people indoors (I wonder if movie tickets in general are currently up?). Also, apparently this movie has really connected with tweens.

liked it. nowhere near as much as abcfsk, but still, like is like. agree that many (most) of the songs are horrendous, but "let it go" is good enough to make up for a lot of that. and the filmmakers were kind enough to keep most of them quite short. also like that the movie passes the bechdel test on an integral level, not just in terms of its dialogue. the romance stories were given a fair bit of screen time, but everything hinges on the relationship between the sisters.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/christian-radio-host-disneys-frozen-is-satanic-tool-for-indoctrinating-young-lesbians/

Blows my mind what a sensation this mundane movie has become. It's basically just a bunch of trudging up and down a mountain in the snow, broken up by the filler of perfunctory (and mostly passive) villains and a talking snowman. I've challenged many a teen or pre-teen to tell me what the movie is about. Not what happens, but what's it about, and generally they're at a loss. Yeah, it's about "sisters," but the conflict is pretty weird. She's angry she hurts her sister - and she does seriously hurt her sister - so she shuts herself off, because she loves her sister so much she doesn't want to hurt her again. Her little sister is ignorant of this and doesn't know why her big sister is so ... cold. So her big sister freaks out, runs away, builds a fortress of solitude guarded by an ice monster (and inadvertently gives life to snow man), then makes everything in this already wintery hamlet more wintery (she can control her powers enough to do the former but not undo the latter). Then she ... chills out, realizes, wait, she does love her sister (was there ever any doubt?), which ... thaws her heart. And all is good. I liked "Enchanted" a lot more.

My daughters asked me to come up with a few sequels, so here's what I spitballed:

Frozen 2: Anna and Ilsa open an ice cream parlor, but they lack the business savvy to go big. A mysterious stranger arrives in town and convinces Ilsa to work with him. He instead enslaves her and steals her powers, thus cornering the ice cream market, and Anna (and later Ilsa, after she escapes) must figure out how to stop him *without* magic. They succeed, and the movie ends with all well and Ilsa powerless ... or so we think, as she gives a frosty wink after the credits roll. Which sets us up for:

Frozen 3: Love Means Never Having to Say You're Thawy: Ilsa is still keeping her powers a secret when a heat wave hits their wintery hamlet and puts an end to their flourishing ice trade. Ilsa tries to cool things down but finds out she really is powerless and unable to help. What gives? So she and her sister must go on a quest together to the heart of elf country and find out what happened. It turns out there was a prince (!) who was similarly cursed, only with heat powers. Ilsa and Anna must stop him, they succeed, and then Ilsa marries him in an elaborate fire and ice ceremony.

Frozen 4: This one is just Anna and the snowman, and probably the guy with the reindeer, too. They're out exploring when some freak accident frees a bunch of mean frozen dinosaurs and wooly mammoths and stuff, which rampage through the town until they're stopped. (The original team has nothing to do with this installment, which is designed for the straight to video market.)

Yeah, it's about "sisters," but the conflict is pretty weird. She's angry she hurts her sister - and she does seriously hurt her sister - so she shuts herself off, because she loves her sister so much she doesn't want to hurt her again. Her little sister is ignorant of this and doesn't know why her big sister is so ... cold. So her big sister freaks out, runs away, builds a fortress of solitude guarded by an ice monster (and inadvertently gives life to snow man), then makes everything in this already wintery hamlet more wintery (she can control her powers enough to do the former but not undo the latter).

Never realized the emotional realities of Scandinavians would enchant the world to the tune of $1 billion.

That's reductionist bullshit - every movie can be summed up by seemingly mundane ingredients.

Well, yeah. But this one in particular I didn't feel like there was enough story to support its running time (not that it was imposing or anything). Like, the innate conflict seemed pretty easy to resolve, and a lot of the other stuff seemed peripheral or perfunctory, like the loss of the parents (natch), the mustache twirling bad guy, the snow monster, the gnomes, the snowman. They felt like placeholders to me, insubstantial subs for real villains or conflicts. Even the quest, as such, of the younger sister entailed walking up a hill to talk to her grouchy sister. It was fine, but I felt no thematic/narrative through-line, just ... stuff happening.

I'll have to ask my 5 year old a little more what he thought it's about. I think he mostly liked the snowman and the reindeer, and there was just enough "super powers" stuff. He dug how Elsa created the snow castle.

Yeah, that's what I mean. There's a lot to like and enjoy, but the sum is less than its parts.

Elsa doesn’t just “get frozen,” she learns the truth about herself and her mother. Anna faces her darkest moment — she thinks Elsa is dead, and Olaf disintegrates before her eyes — and finds the strength to crawl out of the cave and do what has to be done. Your descriptions strip all this away!

I never get teary or emotional at movies, but I came close in those moments. And, of course, it’s all enhanced & elevated by the songs, which do a lot of work in expressing and embodying the emotional content of those scenes.

Anna does get the brunt of it. But "finds the strength to crawl out of the cave and do what has to be done" is like the most common Disney trope after dead parents, it's what's inside that counts, and friends stay together.

More seriously, I guess I didn't find the drama at all compelling because the confusing set-up seemed so contrived just to give them something to do with the slimmest of pretense or set-up (despite all the desperate exposition drops). And again, the betrothal stuff and Olaf growing up didn't deliver and that is a huuuuge hunk of this movie; at least three songs and several scenes.

Watch this: Elsa hears a voice, she follows it and ... discovers she has an Other Half, who is out of balance much the same way she was in the first movie. She does some stuff, fights the bad magic mojo that's keeping them apart, unite as a couple and live happily ever after. While her sister, Anna, learns to live on her own, no longer co-dependent.

There, done. Drama!

xp I don’t know, I’ve seen a lot of Disney movies, I can’t immediately think of another scene where a hero racked with despair and hopelessness finds a way to summon inner resources and commit to something greater than herself.

And I don’t think Olaf “grows up,” in fact it’s the opposite — I think he comes to recognize and accept that he’s not human. I’d have to see it again; I thought Olaf was a great part of this movie, but the details are fuzzy on exactly how.

You want Elsa to “unite as a couple” with her shadow self? That’s weird, lol

And I don’t think Anna’s codependent; she’s been deeply affected by the enforced separation between herself and her sister, and wants for them to be able to fully connect and support each other, without Anna being pushed away.

lol, it's a *metaphoric* shadow self. It's really just another lonely girl with powers, who "completes" her.

And Olaf doesn't grow up! But all of his songs and much of his dialogue is about getting older and aging, weird things for an ageless, practically immortal being magically created fully formedfrom snow to consider.

regardless, my imaginary movie got nominated for best animated film, and this one didn't, so there.

xp Exactly (re: Olaf) — and there’s something poignant about how that’s done.

I also have to confess I don’t understand the popular fixation with “setting Elsa up“… until the end of this movie, she clearly wasn’t ready to be in a relationship with anyone, because she hadn’t “found herself” yet.

(I mean, I read one of the filmmakers say something like that an interview, so it’s not an original insight. But I think it’s on the money.)

The point of the Olaf song is that it won't make sense when he is older, because old people are lying about settler colonialism! It was obvious!

And Elsa freezes because that's what realizing the dark truth of settler colonialism does to people, ice powers or not.

Josh, did you see Toy Story 4, which actually did win Best Animated Feature Film? (I haven’t yet)

I did! I recall thinking it was okay, same with part 3. but to me toy story 2 is the best one.

Man, you want tears? I just got back from my daughter's middle school performance of songs from Frozen and Moana, supporting kids with special needs, and it's remarkable seeing how much this music moves and means to kids.

Dang... I can imagine.

Next movie should be a back to basics move

Let's get back to the sound of two sisters, an iceman and his reindeer, and an anthropomorphic snowman in a room playing

This movie was fine, someone upthread best described it as the quality of a direct-to-video sequel. "Lost in the Woods" was the one song I'll take away from this, and that song felt the least well integrated into the movie

Way too much snowman

Nordic Jar-Jar

When he's so annoying that even the other characters hope he falls asleep, that's sort of a own goal.

I liked the sequel more than the first one *runs away*

^me too

No, that's fair. I didn't think this one was terrible any more than I thought the first one was particularly good. They are both fine. This one is just a lot more muddled and therefore brings more attention to its faults, imo.

I love the artwork in the Little Golden Book adaptation (I’m a real Frozen Bro, lol)

https://i.imgur.com/wfu1BRX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Over the holidays, when I didn't have a lot else to think about, I spent time browsing fan Instagram accts. devoted to "Frozen," and found ppl who had already seen the new film seven times. I can sort of relate to that level of obsession (even though I couldn't personally match it).

wait, that's not how it happenend in the movie. she totally tamed that sea stallion, as is the dream of every girl

this one was fine but too beholden to the first movie to really do anything all that great

but i was also annoyed!

where the *fuck* did all that water from the dam go ELSA

what is that stupid cutesy fire lizard?

and how come elsa gets to be special all over again? SHE DONE ALREADY DONE HAD HERSES

i really loved it, it is not quite the queer feminist pagan fantasy that i pretend it is but i still pretend that it is. we saw it at the cinema and will probably watch it again this afternoon

“Lost in the Woods” would make a great karaoke cut

yeah it’s like a lost Peter Cetera song, it’s really good

"You're the Inspiration" vibes a-plenty

Except more of a boring Broadway pastiche version of that, imo.

both things exist on the highest equal plane for some people, e.g. Jim Pardo

^hey, I’m a huge Pardo fan!

(I’m sure y’all are aware this is now available on D+, several months early)

Today I had to fast-forward to where my kids had been in the movie (after Disney+ fritzed out); I was like, “...was it after she meets the Nokk?,” and my wife was all, “How the f do you know what the horse is called?”

My daughter made this today. Dunno if this will work ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi58fwClSzA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0S8oB3FgLbtYW5HO1XvfrHdolTilxtbBl2U8vlQoEZv7xEOCmFios6jIM

No.

Yeah it worked. Cool!

How did it work for you? Are you able to access the link at least? I just see an error note. Anyway, here is the link, which needs to be de-quoted::

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi58fwClSzA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1wJFSS3ver2R2DipEUfLDIri1JFTQKSSqLD7acZo8FsPpOJtA126CGVGI";

Or not. Dammit!

I still can't see it.

http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=Yi58fwClSzA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1wJFSS3ver2R2DipEUfLDIri1JFTQKSSqLD7acZo8FsPpOJtA126CGVGI

OK, I assume just reconnect the two halves of that link.

I had just clicked on the original link in my web browser…

very cute, especially her Sven impression.

so cute! thumbs up on moose and snowman

https://www.instagram.com/p/CABP91pHgck/

🤘

There's another new(-ish) Olaf retcon short on Disney+, called "Once Upon a Snowman." It's cute, but I only accept the Chris Buck / Jennifer Lee productions as Frozen canon.

It's so f'd up that Anna leaves Hans in charge (when Elsa flees) - they presumably have a palace full of lifelong advisors, one of them really should have put the kibosh on that.