Cars, Televisions and Firearms

oh a car, by some distance

a distance you could not travel with either of the others.

but here's the real deal- if you think deliberately not owning one of these things is a big deal either way then i hope u die

die slow and hard

but a television allows your ~mind~ to travel

i deliberately don't own a car or a firearm because i don't want either

rip mayne nothin personal

You could just have one of each anyway though - why make it a lifestyle choice?

exactly

I really don't think that either of the other of these (cars, guns) are really comparable to television non-ownership, in terms of how they are seen by owners.

I don't see any inherent moral quandary brought up by television ownership or non-ownership. It's a hobby; no harm comes of it, and it's actually quite difficult to think of ways in which even potential harm could come to a person through television ownership, any more than any other household appliance. (it's probably easier to hurt someone with a kitchen iron than a flatscreen television!)

The arguments against guns (and some of the arguments against cars) involve the capacity for enormous harm to come to the self or others, through irresponsible or malicious use.

Cars are a slightly different case, in that their *utility*, especially in areas which are poorly served by public transport, outweighs the personal danger. The other argument against cars, that they are harmful to the environment, or that they rely on over-consumption of precious resources which are unequally distributed because: capitalism and Western imperialism - that is another kettle of fish entirely. (There are similar arguments that might be made against television, in terms of the harm caused by the predominance of certain narratives, and whose stories are deemed worth *telling*, but this is a problem of Culture in general, and not inherent to television as a medium.) This is entirely context dependent. Living in a semi-socialist European environment with good public transport links, the decision to own a car might be morally weighted. Living in the vast majority of the States, it is not.

The thing is, because I do live in a semi-socialist European public transport (ha-hem) paradise, firearms and cars are not even comparable to television ownership, in experiencing people's reactions.

Things that are a better analogy to me:

1) not drinking, as discussed on the OKC thread. The suspicion with which people approach being a non-drinker is very similar to the suspicion with which people approach television non-watchers. Especially because there is an *assumed* moral weight to not drinking, in the eyes of the drinker, which may or may not exist in the reasons of the non-drinker. 9 times out of 10 all of this is cleared up with the question of "do you mind if I do drink?" but the assumptions that people make about non-drinkers - rather than just ask that question - can be quite flummoxing. You don't realise how much of (British, in particular) life revolves around drinking, until you no longer do it. It's quite similar with television, I don't think many people are even *aware* of how much of their every day social lubricant chit-chat revolves around it until the presence of some refusnik highlights it.

2) not eating meat, as discussed on ILX and everywhere forever. Again, it's about the *presumed* moral assumptions, perpetuated by, I dunno, that one militant vegan everyone encountered at university and also the continued existence of Morrissey. Again, "Do you mind if I do, or can we make other arrangements for dinner that make both of us happy?" generally covers the options, but people would endlessly rather go by stereotypes of ~what vegetarians are like~ rather than just ask the damn question.

But the idea persists, that it's vegetarians, or non-drinkers or... people without televisions, who are casting this giant moral net of ~presumed superiority~ projected onto us... that we're somehow... CHOOSING OUR LIFESTYLES *AT* YOU, rather than just... living our lives. These three things feel much more similar in terms of resistance and objections by others, than not owning a gun or not owning a car, both of which I seem to have gone my entire life owning neither, and never encountering significant resistance.

I do feel sorry for British non-drinkers constantly having to explain why they don't drink in a way that doesn't seem judgemental or self-righteous. Everyone I know who's given up booze has had some friendships suffer as a result and I think all the points you made re: guilt/projection that I disagreed with on the TV thread are very much applicable here.

Two of these things are a frequent direct cause of actual violent death, also sometimes on tv they show this and you can watch & feel superior, voting tv

cars are the best

otmotorway

cars are great its true

you can have a tv or a gun in yr car just think about that

TV is the one that's the most use to me but i'm not going to tell others how to roll and all 3 cultures seem to be workin out pretty well

Two of these things are a frequent direct cause of actual violent death, also sometimes on tv they show this and you can watch & feel superior, voting tv

What about all the tvs dropped on people's heads from third story windows?

I have never held a gun in my life & am generally opposed to "gun culture" but shooting sports sound really fun & fulfilling tbh. also I like the loud bang sounds.

good television is good television but so much TV programming is boring & tedious.

Concealed carry permits just started issuing around here so I rely on TV to soothe my "going to get killed by a stray bullet" anxiety that is now added to my "going to get hit by a car and die" anxiety. Voted TV.

cars are the worst

You really need to combine all three of these - 20" TV in the dashboard, machine gun ports to clear traffic ahead of you.

cars make people even more psychotic than guns do.

"going to get shot by some het up commuter with a shiny new concealed carry permit because I accidentally bumped him with my purse trying to make my way to the back of a crowded bus and that was just the last straw, dammit" anxiety.

"enraged dillweed shoots me in the face from the window of his car because he wants to turn right on red really badly and I'm crossing the street with the light" anxiety.

I'm going to go take a Xanax and watch Law and Order.

it took a while, but the gun ended the supremacy of the man on horseback, and along with the printing press is responsible for the dawning of the democratic age.

take a pleasant drive through the country

I'm sure you saw this, carl agatha. It begins! http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-31/news/chi-northwest-side-man-first-to-lose-concealed-carry-license-20140331_1_o-connell-northwest-side-man-license

The first -- and so far only -- person to have his concealed carry license revoked in Illinois is a Northwest Side man accused of pulling a gun during an argument over rent money.

William P. O'Connell, 54, got into the argument with another man around 4:35 p.m. March 23 in the 4600 block of West Palmer Street near Hermosa Park, according to police.

O'Connell pulled out a handgun, pointed it at the man and threatened to shoot him, police said. The man and a woman with him called police and O'Connell was arrested, according to a statement released by police.

O'Connell admitted he hid the gun in a vacant apartment, where officers found a .38-caliber revolver, police said. He was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, a misdemeanor.

O'Connell, of the 7200 block of North Oleander Avenue, had both a valid Firearm Owners Identification card and a concealed carry license, police said.

Oh yeah, I saw it!

cars are a ridiculous contrivance that large portions of my people use out of necessity due to a lack of good public transportation, but at the same time, they are integral and necessary to a variety of rural people that would otherwise suffer for lack of independent transportation. so, they're bad as long as you're a privileged, urban dweller, I guess?

on the other hand, I have a ridiculous friend who has an illegal video screen in the front seat of his car. he's probably doing 80 down the freeway while watching "dave matthews: live at the gorge" on the way to his gun-toting father's home as I type.

ppl who have figured out how to die

I am pretty sure he's got some sort of accident-avoidance aura

ppl who see a lot of accidents in their rear-view mirror

who see a lot of accidents while listening to Cracked Rear View Mirror

ppl who have figured out how to die

should be a thread

my standard line is that I'd be among the first to object to the way north american society has configured all transportation with the assumption that cars are the primary means of transport, and I hate when people use cars inefficiently or irresponsibly (yeah, you don't need an Escalade to haul your kid to school), but I can't really fault anyone for simply owning a car in 2014 north america

btw the correct answer to this poll is the iPhone

Cars and television are each at the center of a very complex nexus of mental, social and physical effects. Guns, otoh, are far more limited in their connections, and most of those connections are associated with pain, bloodshed and death, making it very hard to describe them as "best" under any circumstances.

nb: I would like to point out that both cars and televisions can, in their own way, be used as weapons, cars physically and televisions psychologically.

Gardner mourns after boy, 8, killed by falling television

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