Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

UPDATE: My speaker wire was connected to the right main and right remote outputs. I fixed the problem.

I'd like to thank everyone who was with me from the beginning, without your help this project may have never been completed. I'm confident that with the teamwork displayed in the last couple of days our dream of sending an ex-member of the Velvet Underground to the moon will soon become a reality.

This seems as good a place as any to ask this question ... has anybody bought that new VU seven inch singles thing that Sundazed just put out? I don't really want to buy it, BUT: the mix of "I Heard Her Call My Name" is apparently vastly different. Would like to hear this ... mp3 anywhere?

haha I was wondering which thread to revive to discuss the "Nuns Are On The Seawall" blog...

i.e Velvets bootlegs S/D

the 'Ultimate Mono and Acetates Album' has some of those singles but not all. it does have the mono WL/WH which is really different at least on Lady Godiva's Operation, I guess I should listen to it. that may be the version of "Call My Name" you refer to.

also loving:

the Pre-VU Preview, all the demos of early 60's Reed/Cale pop music
Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland 68)
CDs from a certain minimalist composr who shall remain anonymous

Yeah, I've got that Ultimate Mono Acetates thing -- from what I understand, this mix of "Heard" is unheard until now? Less of Lou's guitar, more of the band. Or something ... But anyway -- yeah! Pre-VU is crazy, really incredible. Drop in some references to methamphetamine and "Do The Ostrich" could be on White Light/White Heat, easy. Crazy that, according to the Unterberger VU Day By Day book, there's a solo version of "Heroin" recorded during the Pickwick era. Probably sounds similar to the versions on the 1st disc of "Peel Slowly" but I'd still love to hear it.

I've got it on order, will let you know...

Cool!
Someone over on the Velvet Forum sez: "the mix of I Heard Her Call My Name is insane. At first I thought that there was a mistake in the pressing as Lou's opening vocals ("here comes count down...' ) are way down in the mix and actually sound muffled. Then they pick up a little with 'Ever since...'. Sterling's guitar is up and so it Cale's bass. For the first 30 seconds or so it sounds like a kind of lo-fi garage sound and then later the sound gets bigger with more of the impact we know. But overall the balance is restored so that you can hear Sterling's lovely rhythm guitar work and Cale's bass, which is really great. Cale's bass sound is amazing on this mix and then also makes you realised how low the bass is in the mix on most of the White Light LP."

Hmm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0847833550/ref=pe_5050_13305760_snp_dp
$189
Little bit annoying that they're putting out all of this collector-bait stuff these days and not putting out unreleased stuff. Or barely any unreleased stuff.

A while ago, I did my own mix of "Heard Her Call My Name" with less Lou and more of the band just for fun, anyone can do it

ysi?

From that Velvet Forum, here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

-The demo tape Cale took to England
-Summit High School tape
-Bizarre footage
-Delmonico´s tape
-Boston Tea Party footage(any news on this, by the way?)
-La Cave 68 tape
-Hippodrome 68 tape
-Nelson Video tape 70
-Rhode Island School of Design, Providence, Rhode Island
-May 11, 1965 Pickwick Studios, near Long Island City, New York
-Donald Jackson VU footage
-Danny Williams VU footage
-The Primitives tape
-Ronald Nameth Vu footage
-Matrix Tapes
-Seattle 69 tape

I don't know how to do that! (xp)

-The demo tape Cale took to England

I'd be surprised if this still existed! Very! The Matrix Tapes is what we want!!!!!

xpost

what the hell is that? a 304-page hardback book, yeah, but what about the single with it?

hate it when Amazon has no info about the product.

and hey that Seattle 69 show is on the Nuns Are On The Seawall blog, it's listed as Retinal Circus. first new show (to me) to surface since the Gymnasium.

!!! Had no idea ... Thanks! Is it good?

more from that Velvet Forum:
-the full Gymnasium tape
-the cale/sterling/reed rehearsals from cale loft 1966
-uncut recent Factory 66 tape

here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

i'm still hoping that footage of them on Upbeat! shows up somewhere. Lots of clips from that show are in circulation, but considering they made a handful of appearances i'm surprised nothing's around. About one of the shows: "The Velvets performed live on the Upbeat TV show in June 1968 (not June 1967). Moreover, contrary to Sterling Morrison's recollection, they performed a blistering, buzzsaw version of Run Run Run. Their rendition of Run Run Run went beyond their alloted time: thus, Upbeat cut away to a commercial while the Velvets were engaged in feedback frenzy with Lou's back to the camera."

that would be awesome. There was some comment (I think from Moe Tucker) that she couldn't believe, with all the cameras the Warhol crew had going all the time, no one just filmed a straight ahead version of one of the EPI shows.

Is it good?

here's wl/wh:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/8j4j7c

it's a soundboard!!! the only one I know of besides those Matrix tapes. as a result the vox are too loud and the guitars a bit subdued, but the overall recording is much clearer. I still think Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland Oct. 68) is my favorite live boot, love the guitar sound on that.

that's a flac btw

Already downloading from The Nuns site ... So weird that this stuff just keeps showing up. One thing I'm super interested in (that hasn't seen the light of day afaik) is a studio version of "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale.

WHAT????!??!

those Velvets Forum trainspotters mean business man.

http://www.paulvates.com/images/gatwickshuttle.jpg

But yeah, the "Beginning" with Cale is mentioned in the Unterberger book - recorded at the "Mr. Rain" session apparently? With "fuzz bass"? There was talk of it appearing on a projected WL/WH "deluxe edition, I think. Which never came out obv.

LOL, yeah, obv.

But ... maybe now that this singles set has come out, there's a chance of more VU material coming out officially? I think I read that Lou wasn't into having any more live stuff come out.

Hmmm, so I'm listening to this "Retinal Circus" VU show -- and I'm pretty sure some of these takes are the same as appear on Live 1969. Haven't a/b'd them or anything. It's an uncut tape of the show, though, which hasn't circulate as far as I know ... I think that those songs were thought to be from the Matrix, wonder what the deal is! MYSTERY. Sounds great, anyway.

yeh, the wh/wh posted above is the same as the version on the live 69 album

er wl/wh

Yeah, same w/ "heroin", "what goes on", "new age" so far. it's funny to hear these songs w/ audience applause -- on 1969 they cut off almost immediately, sort of giving the impression that the VU was playing to barely anyone. But here they've got a totally enthusiastic crowd. And why not, considering the godlike awesomeness of this "What Goes On."

great, thanks for this as well

New very chopped up version of "I'll Be Your Mirror" bgm on some corny-ass Expedia TV CM.

decided to put together one of my periodic "covers of an album" mixes with the third velvet underground record. realized some of the best covers i had were live so set an extra challenge of putting in all live versions. tends towards the classic rock side, including folks who are not super in vogue right now, but i'm going with it anyway

ANOHNI - Candy Says (2003-06-26): one of the most beautiful fucking things ever. it just means so much to me. lou reed's last live performance was accompanying a gender non-conforming femme (ANOHNI is a trans woman but Lou wouldn't have known that) singing lou's song about candy darling. candy died about five years after the song was written at the age of 29. ANOHNI is, i don't know, 52 or 53? her actual birthdate isn't a matter of public record. i'm 48. i came out and transitioned at age 43. i think it's beautiful that ANOHNI, who sang this song with Lou Reed at his last performance, can sing this song _now_. for me as a trans woman, i have a _lineage_, i see a lot of trans women as having a _lineage_, and ANOHNI's goes right back to Candy Darling.

The Dils - What Goes On (1978-08-05): this version goes on _forever_, which is how long "What Goes On" should last in my book. It doesn't last as long as the Velvet Underground playing it at the Hilltop Festival (which is also one of the greatest things of all time), but it's a good eight minutes. Heavenly.

Spacemen 3 - Some Kinda Love (1986-03-06): Kind of a weird choice for them, this is the only recording of them doing it. It actually suits their playing style really well! This listen through, this lyric hits the most: "Let us do what you fear most / That from which you recoil but which still makes your eyes moist." I guess in the past I've had a hard time getting past "Put jelly on your shoulder". I still have no idea what the fuck kind of sex act that's supposed to be. I guess it doesn't matter. The rest of the lyric, I'm still working really hard on that. Shame is a challenging thing. If Lou recoiled from lying on the carpet for whatever reason, well, I hope he was able to do that anyway.

Hole - Pale Blue Eyes (1992-02-11): I don't know too much about Hole, honestly. I know a lot of people hate Courtney Love. I know a lot of people give a lot of women a lot of shit they wouldn't give men. I know plenty of people dismiss Courtney Love as being a talentless grifter. I know she got married a little over a week after this performance. I know this performance fucking kills.

Smog - Jesus (2001-12-10): Everybody wants to do this as a gospel song. Maybe a Peel Session is cheating. Birds. I don't know. Birds. ANOHNI's breakthrough record was "I Am a Bird Now". One of Bill Callahan's most beloved records is "Sometimes I Wish We Were an Eagle", the album he ends by singing "It's time to put God away". Those are the two records I think of when I think of birds and music. Mostly I think of birds by their absence. I feel like Bill Callahan best conveys the complexity and ambiguity of the song's approach to Christ.

Bettie Serveert - Beginning to See the Light (1997-11-27): I genuinely feel that Bettie Serveert are the best interpreters of the Velvet Underground's music ever. Yes, better than the Feelies. Somewhere I have a bunch of really great performances of Velvets songs that aren't on this '90s album, and I like them even better, if anything. This performance, though, is the one that kicks off their album of Velvets covers, and it's a corker of an opening.

Thom Yorke and Beck - I'm Set Free (2002-02-26): Yorke and Beck are both... complicated people. As far as I know this is the only time they performed better. Some charity benefit or another.

The Feelies - That's the Story of My Life (2018-10-13): Just because I feel that Bettie Serveert are the best interpreters of the Velvet Underground doesn't mean I'm not incredibly fond of the Feelies. This is one of those songs that doesn't get covered a lot... Serveert and the Feelies are both good at highlighting the hidden gems in the Velvets' catalog. I'm not saying "That's the Story of My Life" is a hidden gem. It's just kind of... there, you know? I can't imagine the album without it, though. One of the parts the whole is bigger than the sum of.

Pete Hayes (of The Figgs) and The Maybe Sump'ms - The Murder Mystery (2013-11-20): No, I have no idea who these people are. All I know about them is that _they performed the Murder Mystery live_, and really, come on, who's going to _do_ that? It's the Revolution 9 of Velvet Underground songs, except not quite, because "The Murder Mystery" is a song that one _can_ theoretically perform live the way they do it on the album. It's just _really fucking hard_. So whoever these people are - mad respect to them. For the record I fucking _love_ "The Murder Mystery". Again, I can't imagine the album without it.

The White Stripes - After Hours (2000-12-21): Another complicated one. Being a woman in rock is complicated. Particularly Meg White. She's a rock drummer who sings sometimes, and isn't a virtuoso at either but has a lot of charm and personality, and it's kind of... easy to kind of push her into the Maureen Tucker role. And she's not. I don't know _who_ she is, really. I don't have the right to know who she is. She lives her life out of the public eye, but people do put pressure and expectations on her that aren't, I don't think, fair to her. So I'm conflicted about featuring one of her performances in this context. Still, it is a performance, and it has been publicly released. It's just a performance, though. That's all.

Most of these performances are officially released in some form. The Spacemen 3, Smog, and Thom Yorke & Beck performances aren't, that I'm aware of, but should be reasonably easy to track down. The Pete Hayes and Maybe Sump'ms performance isn't either, but it's available on Youtube, presumably with authorization.

Cam Forrester has made a doc about Sterling Morrison (really it's a Velvets doc with a Sterl emphasis). About three hours long, but I've only watched Part 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8RgOw1WdAQ

I really like his reproductions of their songs, though I've only watched the Sister Ray and one or two others. Surprised he doesn't get more notice here.

Oh did he do "Guess I'm falling in love" ?

That was pretty exact...

why did he make a documentary about sterling morrison and put in a bunch of clips of himself playing music and an advertisement for his youtube channel?

Self answering question.

A guy's gotta eat.

Lou Reed's songs for Pickwick being released as a comp. excited for this!
https://variety.com/2024/music/news/lou-reed-pre-velvet-underground-pickwick-records-1236104685/

Finally!

Are there new songs we've never heard elsewhere?

Well, review the tracklist:

https://loureed.bandcamp.com/album/why-dont-you-smile-now-lou-reed-at-pickwick-records-1964-65

Sez in the liner notes:

previously unreleased material (The Beachnuts’ “Sad, Lonely Orphan Boy”)

that's an interesting one — apparently it was in the repertoire of the Cale-Conrad-Reed lineup of The Primitives ... rest of this comp seems to be stuff that has floated around for ages, but it's all worthy of being part of the official Reed canon.

yeah I think that's the only truly unheard one, all this stuff has been booted for ages

Okay by me, I've never heard any of it (nor LITA's Lou demos collection, unless some of those were on Peel Slowly and See).

The LITA demos comp was all previously unreleased.

https://www.discogs.com/release/6210824-Lou-Reed-Early-Lou-Pre-Velvet-Underground-Recordings-1958-1965

I got this one about a year ago.

This LITA one is only download, yeah?

2LP, CD, download

Ta.

Weird track spacing, 8 tracks on each side of the first LP, 4 on side 3 and 5 on side 4

I've just noticed a really interesting (to me anyway) connection with Lou Reed's later career. Terry Phillips, the main producer and songwriter at Pickwick and (I think) the guy who hired Lou Reed in the first place, produced Larry Young's 1975 album, "Larry Young's Fuel", on which the bass player was... Fernando Saunders! Also it was on Arista, the label Lou Reed was just about to sign for.

Wow

Fernando had played, maybe recorded, with Bohannon as well--said Lou was super-impressed by that, and that it may have been the tipping point re getting (longterm) Reed gig.

Yeah, press sheet for this Pickwick collection has Terry P. saying that he hired Lou for his writing, but also foresaw singing and playing getting sharper; "I thought he could be all that he became."

There was a very full article in a recent "Strange Things" which went into full detail about the pickwick years. Terry P pretty much freed Lou from his contract as soon as he started to make inroads with the Velvet Underground, so on the whole a good guy. I believe Nilsson had a similar pre-fame career, and told his guys it was fine for them to make the "Early Years" comps as he had already been paid for them.

I thought I'd heard the La Cave '68 bootleg before now, but I'm starting to think maybe I hadn't. This is really great!

The Houston Chronicle has a six-part series of articles about Sterling Morrison running. They’re all up except for the last.

The first two don’t really add anything though

Some interesting stuff later on though

for my fellow "sweet sister ray" fanatics: https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/782080727952113664/sweet-rock-and-roll

i saw it pop up on my subs a couple days ago! really exciting. i was kind of holding out to see if there's a FLAC version around... got any leads?

^^^ my thoughts exactly, YSI plz

ha, sorry, this is the only way I've got it ...

no worries, i checked my usual sources but didn't see anything, figured it wouldn't hurt to check with you as well :)

anyway sounds _damn good_

The comments section on the linked YouTube made my eyes bulge a little:

@Jonassssss6
Thank you so much. What an incredible gift. But please, please, please upload the source material to the internet archive. The raw, lossless audio files. Photos of the tape. Everything you can. This is an artifact of cultural significance. It doesn't matter that it's just a copy. The audio bitrate of this 360p YouTube video is 134.8kbits/s. That is less than half of the quality of an MP3 (320kbits/s). Please consider talking to J.C. and Mr. Charlie. I can help with any technical stuff. Thanks again!

@PalmerEldritch23
@Jonassssss6 Thank you for your input but it needs to wait. If Jamie's brother is now in charge of the recordings, then he may be looking to cut a deal to get them finally released. Believe me, he needs the money and there's no way I would interfere with that. If in fact this got an official release, this post would come down.

@PalmerEldritch23
I don't know who J.C. actually is. It was merely a notation made by Jamie. Mr. Charlie is me, and thank you for the technical offer but I did audio editing and restoration work in collaboration with The Happy One (nickname) for an archival label which is sadly out of business.
Anyhow, Jamie's actual masters sound incredible. He played me a clear, uncirculated set from March 1969 at La Cave of which you can find the track listing here: http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/live/1969/perf69.html

@PalmerEldritch23
Jamie also played me his master of Cleveland Music Hall 1968.12.01 and it sounded unbelievable, especially "I'm Set Free" in which Moe's drums resonated like dancing gods. The clarity of Jamie's recordings using a simple Norelco cassette deck is simply astounding, but then again cassette compression as we know is not always a bad thing. If I hear anything about a potential sale, I will post it here.

gahhhh

yeahhhhh it's a little painful that there's stuff just sitting there unheard by almost everybody! not sure if an official release is something that will happen, seems like the record company is just happy to repackage the same old stuff over and over. maybe I'm wrong. but a Klimek Tapes release a la the Quine Tapes would be great.

that's wild. what's the deal with those those tapes listed in phil milstein's "what goes on" zine? that zine is kinda legendary but it doesn't ever seem to have been scanned and seems rare as hens' teeth. most i could find was this:

https://fanzinehemorrhage.com/2022/12/21/what-goes-on-1/

i'm inclined to think the listings are spurious, but who the hell knows?

i also gotta wonder if there's anything that could be done to make the boston tea party august '67 tape remotely listenable... i'm impressed that anybody was even able to make out the sound titles on that one!

The wgo tapes do exist, I own at least one, bought back then from source.

I saw a later list, and most are 'present' on Discogs, but I think the more, um, esoteric were produced in limited numbers.

I had a copy of what goes on from 1991, lost it in a move sometime. Never bought any tapes from them but wish I did

yep I still have that one, with the blue flexi and Mo on the cover

I bought it at the time cause Rolling stone magazine of all things touted it and the VU appreciation society

I think I got the subscription after buying issue 4 which was nice in one way but it took something like twelve years to get my full quota of issues.

I do still have them all obviously, the last one was a slog: everyone who saw the VU on the reunion tour wrote an overlong review including how they failed to get backstage and/or spoke to Sterling who pretended to know them or something...

The old Velvet Underground Companion (from the "Companion" series of Rock books) was mostly a 'Best of' from WGO.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/511WPJX678L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

The wgo tapes do exist, I own at least one, bought back then from source.

I saw a later list, and most are 'present' on Discogs, but I think the more, um, esoteric were produced in limited numbers.

― Mark G

i think this is a separate list of tapes, you're talking about what are known as the "afterhours" tapes, right? as described here?

http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/bootlegs/afterhours/afterhours.html

i'm talking about tapes like:

"June 1, 1968
Jerry & Lorraine (?), Los Angeles, California

Tape: listed in What Goes On - The Best of 1&2, 55 minutes (incomplete), C+.

from this page:

http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/live/1968/perf68.html

god I love that obsessive dude, what a hero.

amazing excerpt from that link

"This extremely rare poster advertises one of a series of events attended by Andy Warhol in early 1968. In 1967, Warhol agreed to undertake a cross-country college lecture tour organised by the American Program Bureau. After 'appearances' at the University Of Oregon, Linfield College in McMinnville, Oregon and at the University of Montana, he was scheduled to appear at the University of Utah on 2 October, 1967 where attendees and college officials became suspicious that this was not in fact the real Warhol. It later became clear that it was not Warhol speaking but instead, one of his superstars, Allen Midgette, was speaking in his place. As a consolation for this deceit, Warhol was later obligated to appear himself at 18 different college venues from 16 January to 2 April, 1968. Although The Velvet Underground were billed at this event, they apparently never actually appeared although they did appear two days later at Harvard University, Massachusetts. An account of this event in the Denver University student newspaper reported that the event consisted of the showing of two reels of Warhol's films over each other followed by a Q & A session where Paul Morrissey and Viva did most of the talking whilst Warhol remained silent. The performance was apparently ill-received, with the newspaper reporting Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Ask a straight question, get a stupid answer."

and yeah those listed recordings might be apocryphal but damn I wanna hear them if they exist

GAHHHHH

Klimek taped every single Cleveland Velvets show from the Plastic Exploding Inevitable on out but most of those tapes unfortunately haven't surfaced. People who had chance to hear them all say that there is still some excellent stuff that hasn't surfaced, like the long, winding Sweet Sister Ray intro to Sister Ray that goes on for some 15 minutes of trippy, dreamy VU, and a superb Waitin' For My Man with Cale.

Xpost to Kate

Yes, the afterhours tapes. Will look at those other tapes, cheers.