King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

I've heard great things about RED, but I've never heard it. Possibly due to the stigma of John Wetton. Even though RED predated Asia by veritable eons, I cannot erase the crime.

Red is ace, and has been discussed here before. The instrumental tracks are the ones that sound less dated - especially the title track and its 'devils interval' backstory.

But I think Wettons vocals on Starless and Red are lovely and I disagree that the placid quietness of them is just 'static' - there is a line on one of the tracks on Starless... 'My Home... was a place by the sea' which I just adore and I've never known why - but it kept popping up in my head when I had my Steve Erickson reading binge a couple of years ago and it has that same mesmeric Erickson quality of difference and strangeness but not different and not strange (ooh thats a hopeless description: Somebody save me here!).

There are three formulas involved in the Larks/Starless/Red tracks - and I think I like them all.

There are the dream-like songs I've already mentioned - all playful repeating echos of other things, and that strange wailing sound which I always imagine is one of them corrugated tubes you wave around your head - but presumably is just frippertronics (it turns up on evening star too). I always thought they were an influence on Nirvana on Nevermind's quiet moments but haven't seen it confirmed that Cobain knew this stuff.

Then there are the agressive ones - Red, the loud bits in Larks part one - the bit in Fracture where it suddenly changes speed. For a prog band they sure conjure with an magikal energy - that stuff sounds great - its a shame that neither the post rockers like Mogwai / Aeorgramme / etc or the Nu Metallers studied that stuff to avoid making their mistakes. Its not just a feature of that period of Crimson though, 21st C on the first album, the bit nicked from Mars on the second have that feel too.

The bits that are left form a third grouping, mainly instrumental and much more passive - but definately not static. The quiet bits of Larks pt1, Trio, Night Watch. Larks overtly references Vaughn Williams and thats a good suggestion of what's going on, Debussy and Satie too. But there is a lack of optimism in those tracks that doesn't sit well with the grace of those influences. They are bleak and hopeless feeling too.

"Easy Money" has this (on the live versions, not the studio version, alas) great (for prog rock, mind you) bit of lyric:

"So I argued with the judge, But the bastard wouldn't budge, 'cause they caught me licking fudge, and they never told me once, you were a minor..."

Mark- Apparently Red is KC's favourite album ever. He also loved the raincoats, having written some brief notes for the reissue of their excellent debut. Even though nirvana sucked he had good taste (though I think that he only said that to piss off the metal fans that bought his music).

Agnes Moorehead, obviously. :)

Ladies of the Road and Formetera Ladies are the clunkers I refered to above btw. Though I think Sinfields worst lyrics are on Still.

Truly unfathomable, I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. However, it explains much. There's a site where I help write reviews for prog rock albums, and we once received a snippy letter for dissing the Wake of Poseidon album (or at least, not being fanboy-ish enough towards it), and the person, opening up by claiming we had "less wit and culture than an ant" (yep) used much of the material found in the Wake of Poseidon chapter as their defense of the album and its depth. Maybe it was even The Keeper of the onyx-embolden'd-husking-jewelled-warthogs website himself! :)

Cue your golf swing.

Wow... Mind = blown.

Very cool! thx ned

"that's some really wild stuff"

In The Lounge of the Crimson King

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.

I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.

Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so

the story just got weirder from there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILSVAUjd5QI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Fripp speaks

excellent...wish it was longer

2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.

'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.
― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO.

its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.

So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/lk/l/w/dd360157ea8e506661983ea7336800bc/4330188.gif

classic:

'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

I think it's not a coincidence that the improv in the very brief Muir era of KC is top notch. Iirc the live shows from that massive "Larks" boxed set were full of surprises.

I really don't think there was room for someone like that in the 80s band but it might've been cool to see what the 90's/00's band could've done with like, I dunno, a weirdo DJ in their midst

Or three DJs, each set up behind a drummer

...and none of them can hear what the other two are doing

Pere Ubu never really abandoned the whole "disrupting/commenting/contradicting synth player" element even when they were rocking a more mainstream-avant sound in the late 80s

What KC really needed in the 80s was an onstage mime artist

Though even Ubu mixed the synth low or out on single mixes. Every listener has their own line where "thrillingly spontaneous disruption" becomes "random extraneous sonic garbage".
I think the 1995-2003 Crimson was better when they were four rather than six pieces, maybe because the digital tools allowed for so much more sound from each player that a sextet was always getting in each other's way.

By the end Bill was getting pretty wacky and unconventional on his set. That's where you get stuff like "Industry."

Fripp recently had a heart attack. This week's Robert and Toyah video tells the whole story but he seems to be recovering fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m63V3KbyUY

Jakko saying a final KC album may be on its way?

https://www.stereogum.com/2314598/king-crimson-recording-first-new-album-since-2003/news/

tbh I'm not convinced, reminds me of how Ralf Hutter has been saying for nearly two decades that another Kraftwerk album was being worked on, that said the latest incarnation actually did play some new songs live

They've certainly got an album's worth of material. It's a shame Rieflin isn't around to contribute.

Beat live album coming in September, too.

now an album of new material by Beat, that would be really cool

normally I'd say no chance but the whole project was a remarkable success and Belew seems like the sort of dude who is writing songs constantly so who knows. I'm thinkin something with a monochrome green cover and a minimal design like the 80s KC albums...c'mon, so many people would flip their shit over that

a monochrome green cover and a minimal design like the 80s KC albums...c'mon, so many people would flip their shit over that

https://qc-ckb.s3.amazonaws.com/ilx/beatonthebrat.jpg

haha that would be brilliant but these guys already used an ugly AI generated elephant for everything and I don't think that will go away

also don't think Beat will wind up doing any new material, but who knows.

Word from management:

Addressing the idea of some form of studio recording by the last incarnation of King Crimson, Bill Rieflin posed the excellent question “why make a studio album? There are excellent live recordings of all the songs out there already.”

One possible answer would be an album the very sound of which no-one has ever heard before. A sound driven by the three drummers. And those drummers have now recorded studio versions of their parts – separately, so that there is perfect separation.

So there is the seed of a new recording. Whether it is an album, whether it sees the light of day, whether it is something else is unknown. As is the outcome of any creative process.

So yes, recordings have taken place. Getting excited about the possibility of a new album, as has apparently been happening, is somewhat premature. Carts before horses.

They should release an album that's just drums, then one that is just guitars, then one that is just bass/Stick and then pull a "Zaireeka."

Three Drum/House of Crimsun

the very sound of which no-one has ever heard before. A sound driven by the three drummers

Ok lol

Fuck Everything, We're Doing Five BladesDrummers

I really want the next iteration to be one drummer, one bas and five Chapman sticks.

People tend to forget about the ProjeKCts, which was all manner of combos. I saw one with Belew on drums the whole set! I know there are a few recordings out there of the tour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69mHMg9JKaQ

I don't think this has ever been posted here; Doc Severinsen (trumpeter and Tonight Show bandleader) doing a big-band version of "The Court of the Crimson King" in 1970:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBkTHskJcX0

I might like this better than the original, and that artwork belongs on one of 70s/literal album cover threads.

Also, it's fun to sing the lyrics to the Gilligan's Island theme to this melody.

Not sure I really get the point of these Elemental mixes. Lizard, already a "pinch of salt" experience, has had all the brightness of every instrument turned up and hard panned for maximum cringe. Maybe good for nerds who want to hear every, um, element in isolation, but about as atmospheric as strip lighting

yeah they are simply curiosities, i'm surprised they are putting these out as standalones but I guess they kind of already released the 100th deluxe editions of these records. So far they're all worth at least one listen but by no means do they work on their own.

they're not really stems though aren't they? I thought the idea was they were just using alternate takes of every instrument, it's an interesting concept but yea might be a little more interesting if every note these dudes ever recorded wasn't released in some form anyway

would be funny if they did release the stems though. make your own remixes! see how long they can stay online before we find them!

they aren't stems, they are full remixes but explicitly they are very 'open' remixes (ie: in many cases the drums have been removed or scaled way down)

Didn't notice that they released a live Beat album, gotta listen to that.

Aaaaand ... the live album absolutely shreds, it is so good!!!

Belew’s voice is in remarkable shape

Man would love to see these guys just once

its pretty wild how he sounds pretty much exactly the same as he did in the 80s, I know there are a lot of singers whose voices have aged well but his hasnt aged at all. I'm also stunned by how good Tony Levin still is

yeah it's a really good document of the tour; mastered a little hot but the performances were pretty scorching so it kind of fits.

Man would love to see these guys just once

huh Belew/Harrison Remain in Light tour just announced for Australia, next year - which I feel makes a BEAT tour very unlikely, Tony Levin is 79!! how much longer does he wanna do this stuff

having said that it looks like they play Thela Hun Ginjeet as part of these shows so I will take that at least

just one Beat gig in London, or anywhere UK is all I ask....

they're scared Fripp would turn up and force them to do 8 hours of rehearsal/soundcheck before they could go on

There were rumors of Europe and Asia in 2026, but I can only imagine the number of moving parts. Still, I don't see why they wouldn't do it if they could, they all seem to get along and by all accounts the tour seemed pretty successful. I'd be a little surprised if they didn't tour North American again, too, but yeah, no one is getting younger.

yea I think even they were surprised by how successful the tour was

Hadn’t heard about these elemental mixes, listened to Lizard last night. Hadn’t played the original in years, I have worn vinyl left behind by an old roommate. It’s my least favorite of the first four, so many of the parts I was hearing were unfamiliar to me. Maybe if I was more well versed in the original I’d understand the point of this. But “Happy Family” as an instrumental? Nah.

I find it pretty interesting, like seeing a band live and they whip out a new arrangement of a familiar tune

one thing I dug about this one is you can really hear Fripp's playing which on the album itself was mostly buried. there are some really great parts on it. especially on "Indoor Games". lots of crazy synth bits too. I can't actually remember what made the album.

Steven Wilson's remix of Lizard is the best version to my ears, imo one of the best remix/remaster jobs ever in terms of how much it really improves on the original. SW really leans into the chaos of that album which is odd because his own work is so controlled and sterile to my ears. He talked about how there are bits which weren't on the original, recordings even Fripp didn't know about, all of which got constructed into this new mix...hearing the "Elemental" mixes you get a sense of what's out there.

that said idk if I'd want to listen to this more than once - I mean yeah, its cool to hear them groove a bit on "Happy Family", but what is it really without that absolutely nightmarish vocal??

here's some stuff I didn't know existed: Al Stewart with Fripp and the Giles brothers. There are four of five songs from a BBC session:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQu3pKpNOTA

I find it pretty interesting, like seeing a band live and they whip out a new arrangement of a familiar tune

This is why I like a lot of the recent string of live albums with the large band.

“Lady of the Dancing Water” is so quiet that it sneaks past you at the end of Lizard side two and you don’t realize how beautiful it is.

Been digging the BEAT concert album, though it's a bit more restrained than the amazing Cirkus versions.

just one Beat gig in London, or anywhere UK is all I ask....

― my opinionation (Hamildan), Monday, 10 November 2025 13:38 (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

Beat Europe tour 2026 announced.

https://beat-tour.com/

"I talk to the Wind" after "21st century.." is a choice

These guys seem like they've got it pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8dIac7rYA

That's cool. It's funny that he brought up cellos a few times, because as I understand it Fripp's preferred New Standard Tuning is the same as a cello's tuning.