King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

"Easy Money" has this (on the live versions, not the studio version, alas) great (for prog rock, mind you) bit of lyric:

"So I argued with the judge, But the bastard wouldn't budge, 'cause they caught me licking fudge, and they never told me once, you were a minor..."

Mark- Apparently Red is KC's favourite album ever. He also loved the raincoats, having written some brief notes for the reissue of their excellent debut. Even though nirvana sucked he had good taste (though I think that he only said that to piss off the metal fans that bought his music).

Agnes Moorehead, obviously. :)

Ladies of the Road and Formetera Ladies are the clunkers I refered to above btw. Though I think Sinfields worst lyrics are on Still.

Truly unfathomable, I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. However, it explains much. There's a site where I help write reviews for prog rock albums, and we once received a snippy letter for dissing the Wake of Poseidon album (or at least, not being fanboy-ish enough towards it), and the person, opening up by claiming we had "less wit and culture than an ant" (yep) used much of the material found in the Wake of Poseidon chapter as their defense of the album and its depth. Maybe it was even The Keeper of the onyx-embolden'd-husking-jewelled-warthogs website himself! :)

Cue your golf swing.

Wow... Mind = blown.

Very cool! thx ned

"that's some really wild stuff"

In The Lounge of the Crimson King

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.

I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.

Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so

the story just got weirder from there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILSVAUjd5QI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Fripp speaks

excellent...wish it was longer

2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.

'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.
― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO.

its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.

So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/lk/l/w/dd360157ea8e506661983ea7336800bc/4330188.gif

classic:

'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaz8xfFjuE

Guess Fripperlips is done for good?

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/king-crimson-robert-fripp-quits-music-business/

Hope he enjoys retirement!

He's been retired for a while, I believe. Couple of years? Also, for what it's worth, he was semi-retired for pretty much the second half of the '70s, too.

Yeah, this is not new news.

Wait, hold up:

A multi-disc deluxe edition of the 1973 Crimson classic ‘Larks’ Tongues in Aspic’ is set for release in October and will include 13 CD’s, a DVD and a Blu-Ray disc.

13 CDs!?!?!

Disc details at the bottom of this page: http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm

So basically a bunch of live discs previously sold through the site. That's cool though. Band in the Muir era was neat.

Wasn't aware Kanye had sampled "Schizoid Man," which Fripp seems pissed he didn't get paid for. Wonder if he ever paid any royalties for quoting "Surrey With The Fringe On Top" in "Moonchild?"

I figured Fripp was done, but this is the first time I ever heard him say it (I know he said he wasn't going to tour anymore some 4-5 years ago), maybe I'm just not paying attention

Awkward way to insult an artist. "You fuckers, you're using AI!" "No, Ben made that himself." "Oh....."

(like it's so ugly it looks like AI...ah, needed to rewrite that)

Fripp also says he doesn't like it

"Scott Dakota: Absolute most effective way for Robert Fripp to destroy his sales income and lifetime built respect is to use gen AI clanker slop artwork that destroys the ecosystem and thieves from human artists, and is guaranteed to produce visceral revulsion from a large number of creative people who'd previously been fans.
That is, if you were going for career and reputation suicide.

RF: Mr. Dakota assumes that the artwork is AI generated. In this he is mistaken. The artist is Ben Singleton, who has provided artwork for the last incarnation of King Crimson. My career and reputation have been under attack from various commentators since 1969, so it's likely I won't notice much of a shift.

Seth Katz: All analog or was there a digital stage?

RF: Ben, as with many contemporary artists / designers, works digitally. DGM had a hard January deadline to meet the Record Store Day annoucement, and Ben worked at speed over Christmas to meet this (for which gratitude). Ben created three other portraits - of Daniel Dust, The Wilton Carpet and Beldon Stratford.

Dino Orlando: Don't like the cover. Nothing against Mr. Fripp of course.

RF: No offence taken. I don't like it either: I don't like personal portraits.

Nick Simms: Was hyped when I first saw this on the list, but once I saw the AI slop cover… not gonna be rushing to grab this one.

Maxine McKenzie: Ditch the a.i 'cover' disneyfuckation of Uncle Bobby!

RF: Please refer to my above response to Mr. Dakota.

Yes Fanzine: RF, say it ain't so! Please tell us this isn't an AI-generated cover, as it sure looks like it!

RF: It ain't so.

Kevin Gamble: If it isn't AI, it would be good to know, as it looks a lot like AI style. And many of us have ethical concerns about AI.

RF: Now Mr. Gamble knows, and it's good. For those interested in our views of the pillars of ethical business, please consult the posted DGM principles of ethical practice. For those not sufficiently concerned about ethcial practice to do some searching, please see my next post.

Sean Sky: nice pic, before you started wearing that stupid tie.

RF: I engage with goodwill. But I am not sure which of my stupid ties Mr. Sky refers to. My tie yesterday was of a white unicorn and white rabbit, gambolling happily on an orange background. Surely, nothing stupid about white unicorns and white rabbits happily engaging in a playful social discourse?

Same story as the elephant Beat graphic. Fans were all, what is this AI slop? But someone determined that an actual artist was behind it (though jury is out as to whether or not there was still an AI assist), and also Belew is on record as being a fan of the 'phant. Granted, I would not expect anyone that dresses in day-glo and plays a Parker Fly to have particularly good taste in visuals. Fortunately, music is primarily audible.

I'm tired of everybody playing internet cop on AI art. Like I'm not talking about about ILX but there are a bunch of amateur AI detectors who have harassed legit artists who weren't using AI or asking them in a sense to prove they drew it.

One can be against generative AI abd acknowledge that turning loose the amateur masses to make public accusations is maybe a bad idea. Burden of proof should be on the accuser

Someone actually tried to suggest the video of ICE trying to enter the Ecuadorian embassy was AI slop lol

I dunno, it's kind of like the self-policing side to Bluesky. It's insufferable, but I get it. I think the argument being made is that AI only succeeds if people use it, so for some, anyone that uses it is in a sense in league with it. And the reason (not that you don't know this) people don't want it to succeed is that the population's grasp of reality is tenuous at best (hence all the suspicion), let alone recognition of the value of and work behind art, so why encourage it? And then it becomes particularly onerous when someone associated with artistic integrity (like Fripp) in turn associates or is associated themselves with something literally designed to undermine artistic integrity.

This stuff, though, it's almost a shorthand by-product. "Looks like AI" basically means "looks bad." The irony of course being that eventually AI will get good enough to look/sound/whatever good, which will lead (some) people to (per your example) accuse good or real stuff of being AI, which will be the most AI of inevitable AI outcomes. Can only imagine someone accusing Fripp or Belew or whomever of *sounding like* AI, but that is probably coming, too.

I'm pretty sure that artist that did the Beat cover did use AI on that, I'd looked at his instagram at the time and he was forthright about experimenting with AI. I don't really expect Belew to have investigated stuff like that enough, also I'm not sure he necessarily cares.

Other KC offshots like Tuner with Markus Reuter, Pat Mastelleto and Trey Gunn absolutely use AI for both album graphics as well as these little videos they made. Dunno. They were certainly weird and interesting little videos so at least there was some creativity involved in the output. I imagine Tuner etc are basically self-funded musical exercises and I don't think any of those guys are rolling in money so I kind of get it, though it's a bit disappointing.

Xpost the average person is shit at detecting it though. The obvious "7 finger" examples are one thing, but AI was trained on a variety of art styles, so some of the people who are making art in popular styles get accused because their art looks similar to the engines that ripped it off.

Someone here publicly quit working with a theater company i work with because they claim the artist used AI on a poster. This person couldn't prove it, or have any evidence other than "it looks wonky". Ok...their choice.

In any case this cover art sucks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzv_mj8Lh_g

― Maresn3st, Friday, 6 February 2026

Some excellent remarks on Jamie Muir, who died last year.

I posted this in the RIP thread (the interviewer just passed), but it's a new to me conversation between Fripp and ... Joe Strummer!

https://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Interview_with_Robert_Fripp_and_Joe_Strummer_in_Musician

I'm tired of everybody playing internet cop on AI art. Like I'm not talking about about ILX but there are a bunch of amateur AI detectors who have harassed legit artists who weren't using AI or asking them in a sense to prove they drew it.

I mean "this looks shopped I can tell from some of the pixels and from having seen quite a few shops in my time" was a meme well over a decade ago, this is just the nature of the internet. on my side of the street I'm fully paranoid about AI, I have to ask throughout any process working with an artist "we're clear, no generative AI right?"

Sundown dazzling day
Gold through my eyes
But my eyes turned within only see
Hairless, my shaven balls

https://stereogum.com/2500053/robert-fripp-still-unclear-why-hospital-shaved-his-balls-after-heart-attack/news

Just think of it as a bonus, like when a barber throws in a shave for free.

Larks Tongues and Ass-Bic

Serious answer: I think it's because for certain types of heart surgery they have to go in through your femoral artery, and the easiest way to access it is right at the crotch.

Surprise vasectomy

Just published on Syd Schwartz's Substack:

Somewhere else, a young prog rock nerd just learned the hard way that the date would have gone better if he’d chosen Milestones over Larks’ Tongues in Aspic. Boy, do I wish I’d gotten that advice.

She wasn't the one, Syd.

And unperson is correct.

Relevant part is at the start: The femoral artery is the preferred access point for angioplasty – a catheter-based procedure used to diagnose or fix a blocked coronary artery. Located in the groin area, the femoral artery is large and relatively easy to access, and minimally invasive angioplasty carries fewer risks than open heart surgery.

Also worth noting that if you want to end a knife fight in a hurry, stabbing someone in the upper thigh is a much better bet than going for the torso.

What are people's honest thoughts about the 80s new wave trio, Discipline, Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair?

Personally I struggle a little with these. I bought Beat years and years ago when I was first getting into Crimson and was struck at how different it sounded to Red and ITCOTKC. But there are definitely parts that have come to stand out to me, and I think it's probably my favourite.

I tried listening to Discipline over the weekend, wondering why I have always had difficulty getting throught it. And the answer is: Belew. Considering this guy has played an important role in two of my all-time favourite bands, his whole persona grates on me a great deal. Songs like Elephant Talk feel so pseudy, nerdy in the least appealing way possible. Just reading synonyms for the word "talk" out fo the thesaurus, eughk... He seems to calm down a little on Beat and TOAPP but not much.

I used to feel exactly the same way but then it all just clicked for me and I found Belew bearable all of a sudden - I think it helped if I thought of him in more of an 80s nerdy / comedic tradition, like computer programmer jokes in text adventure games or Douglas Adams or Steve Gerber.

And then having categorised his annoyingness as a particular era-specific flavour/texture I could kind of mentally file him away and concentrate on the music which is frequently incredible.

I unapologetically like him on some songs too where he isn’t so goofy - like, Frame By Frame is just great full stop.

I'm a big fan of that era of the band, Discipline in particular. I get where you're coming from, but Belew's persona never bothered me. In fact, it works very much to the advantage of something like "Thela Hun Ginjeet", where I can 100% relate to this inoffensive guy inadvertently finding himself in a dangerous situation. ("I'm still shaking!") Also, his singing and playing is so effortlessly on point in the gorgeous "Matte Kudasai".

Discipline is easily the best of those three albums, but I think there's a live album from the voluminous catalogue that's supposed to be the best way of hearing that lineup. Not sure which one. Belew's vocals are hard to take, yes. However I'd rather listen to him than Boz Burrell or Gordon Haskell. As ever, prog vocals remain a thing to endure rather than love (with a few honourable exceptions, none of them KC-related).

"Absent Lovers" is the live album you're looking for.

I was a teen when I first heard "Three Of A Perfect Pair" and fell for it immediately. Maybe it's because I was already hanging out with nerds who thought puns were clever but I'm a big fan of everything Adrian was involved with until the mid-90s when his charm sort of wore off. But the three 80s Crimson albums are all gold.

I love "Three" and "Discipline," listen to "Beat" a lot less but still like it. Don't mind Belew the singer, who is basically like Byrne if he wished he was in the Beatles, and yet, still could play like Belew. Regardless, it barely needs to be said but the "Beat" tour a year or two ago absolutely ripped, one of the best things I've seen, and despite the different line-up and some slight deviations was pretty faithful to the studio versions of those three albums.

Me, I can't really get into the '90s/"Thrak" and beyond era of the band.

Absent Lovers is incredible, I agree on that!

I could have written your whole original post word for word. The phrase “shut up ‘n’ play yer guitar” may have been coined by Zappa but it was made for Belew.

there's a sort of neurosis present amongst all King Crimson's singers, it's part of what gives them a mystical quality, Belew I think tries to imitate that in his own way but it's not particularly convincing. that said most of his lyrics are fine, good even, plus he's a top notch guitar player who can actually keep up with Fripp, his voice is excellent, he's also the only one in the group actually writing songs, I don't think it could've worked without him. BEAT (the band) I think proves the point, you can swap out Fripp and Bruford (obviously Vai and Carey are no slouches) and it still sounds great, but the recent KC's lineup attempt to do some 80s material didn't quite come off right.

I should probably revisit those 90s/00s albums - THRAK did kind of drag but Belew's songs were always very good (especially "Dinosaur" and "Walking on Air")...TCoL I liked much less, though I am intrigued by the remix which apparently does away with a lot of that ugly thwack on the drums. TPTB I thought was solid. but kind of a strange final album since it felt like they were still going somewhere.

When you tangle it in with all the more or less concurrent ProjeKCts maybe it makes more sense. I've never spent much time with those, though I did see one line-up live that featured Belew exclusively on drums! Belew, Fripp and Gunn, maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0WC1C_kHBw

those were the first albums by KC I ever heard and I remain very fond of all three of them.

Discipline is prob my 4th fave after the Larks'/Starless/Red run

"The Sheltering Sky" remains a towering achievement, also perfect for Belew haters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T879-kGjRcY

yes I too saw a 10+ minute "Sheltering Sky" and it got a standing ovation, one of the coolest concert experiences of my life honestly

It's what sealed the deal for Vai for me, his expressiveness really added a lot to the performance. Plus his zoot suit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-BCHKT_250

She wasn't the one, Syd.