Did we do Love yet? Forever Changes, etc.

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If Ian MacDonald ever contributed to anything as downright marvellous as "The View From Her Room", "Holiday Hymn" or "Venceremos (We Will Win)" then I would be mightily surprised.

I imagine there was a good deal of sneering at Mr. Booth in and around the Wire office.

Tim, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Just snooring.

mark s, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hopelessly over-valued album.

Guy, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

guy - seriously - why "hopelessly". What does it make you despair of?

Peter, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

1. Tim, what are you talking about?

2. Don't think I can agree with Tom E about the melodic content here.

3. But I have a slight soft spot for the LP all the same. Still, a wee bit overrated to say the least.

the pinefox, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

eleven months pass...
just been listening to this today... i really only like it for the orchestration/arrangements. i don't think much of the lyrics at all - some of them are quite embarrassing (not that i usually hold much stock in lyrics). as for the singing, some of arthur lee's emphases are very odd. but far worse than that: bryan maclean. why did lee let him sing at all? his style is even more mannered than lee, and quavering, ever teetering on the edge of kermit the frogness... unbearable. the album is saved by songs like 'alone again or' (yes, maclean did have his uses :)), 'maybe the people could be the times...' and 'you set the scene' though, so not dud. as a sound, i like it.

minna, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's one of those records within the Canon that is actually, like, y'know, good. Great. Absolutely phenomenal. More to come after I re-listen to it. (It doesn't sound to me like anything I've ever heard from the Sixties, before or after it, or anything I've heard from Love before or after. It's just one of those albums that within its context it appears as a complete broadside to me.) Cue "doesn't sound like anything from the sixties? are you mad?" comments? To me: it doesn't. That'll be the more to come: an explanation of why it doesn't.

david h, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's too twee for me.

Sean, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

three months pass...
This is one hell of an album you're talking about here. The first two Love albums are alright but fuck my motherfucking cockring off, Forever Changes is a bit fucking special.

Jesus Chrit I could talk shite about this album all day. Let me try and put it somewhat succinctly by simply saying: apply any number of ridiclous positivist superlatives to this album and you still won't come close to what I think of it. Hmmm, perhaps that's not quite simple enough. How about this: Hello.

Ah, I know all this is the favourite of the critic and wannabe critic who all dig this shit but straight up, I can't get enough of this bad- boy. It is a timeless, beautiful, out there trip, comprising of awestruck, wonderful, jaw-dropping songwritting of the draw just above the top one, that's hidden by faux beading.

Classic is not a strong enough word.

It's alright actually...

Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Apparently I'm the only person in the entire world who prefers the first self-titled album to Forever Changes.

Nick A., Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No, I think Dr.C might agree with you.

Arthur Lee's "Invisible Jukebox" comments in this month's Wire - classic or sad? Bit of both, probably.

Jeff W, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What's he say man? He's pretty out there nowadays isn't he...

Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Jeff - you're *predicting* again ;)

I'm not sure which album I prefer, although I AM sure that I prefer both to Da Capo. I've been meaning to play Forever Changes back to back with the debut for a couple of weeks, but I haven't got around to it yet. I'm a sucker for the garagey feel of the first album and as far as Lee's writing goes, I reckon with a little more arranging most of his tracks here could have slotted into 'Forever Changes' without any noticeable difference in quality.

Dr. C, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

haha yes, must stop that *slaps wrist*

Roger: you'll just have to read it y'self, hard to paraphrase. But I will say there are some amusing "what are you playing me this rubbish for? This has fuck all to do with my music" moments.

Jeff W, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'll keep my eyes open for it that Lee stuff.

Erm, I'd like to share something with you: if I travel anywhere, or know that I will be leaving my house for longer than 24 hours, I have to take a copy of Forever Changes with me.

Oh dear.

RogerFascist, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

yea, that wire interview is pretty odd, it kinds of veers between great and sad, as you say. its weird how he didn't seem to know some stuff about what was right around the same time, and its difficult to know whether he did really, but wasn't going to admit to it, there was just some weirdness about whether he was being entirely honest and stuff. a good read though

gareth, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

seven months pass...
Forever Changes. One of those albums that got/gets referenced a lot but I still hadn't heard. Probably because I always feel very very alarmed about 'old' albums with this kind of mythical status. (one of the reasons i still haven't gottend around to listening to Trout Mask Replica yet) this kind praise. Was under the impression it would be some kind of hippie-plingplong-blahblah records. but then...

Utrecht, March 6, 2003. After a drink with some colleague-friends and returning to my hometown by train (Sleater-Kinney's One Beat on the md)I got on my bike at 20.45. Halfway home I passed my favorite local record shop (which is called Da Capo...) and I felt a sudden urge to go in and buy something within the 10 minutes of opening time left...
Going through the racks, pausing at some albums, putting them back, checking the new releases section, u know how it goes. Then I stop at the "Love"-section and pick out a 2001 re-issue on 180grams vinyl [Sundaze] and start thinking...maybe I should put my negative feelings about this aside and buy it. Which I did. (got a thumbs-up from the owner, obv. :))

Man, I should have done this earlier!! Moron. What a fabulous LP!! Ten seconds into the first song (don't know the songs by heart yet, obv., but i think it's Alone Again) there were goosebumps coming up. WTF, what's this? volume UP. those horns. etcetc. (=great feelings throughout the playing of the record that i cannot accurately put into words).

Great experience. Maybe I should check out Trout Mask Replica as well...

(RogerFascist, is that still true? if so: great!!)

willem (willem), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Haha!! Awesome story willem - enjoy the record, it just gets better with age.

You should give TMR a try but it's not as immediately pleasant a listen. It took me a few spins to get it (it's worth the effort).

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

(ooh, i should have checked my spelling/grammar in that first paragraph...)

thanx Mr. Diamond. i'll give TMR a try sometime soon, then.

willem (willem), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

good but overrated. the ballads are pretty lame. MacClean's solo album was very, very good tho...

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

oh ok, MacClean's solo album was better than Forever Changes.

You can't make this stuff up, folx.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 7 March 2003 09:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Willem, unfortunately the story is no longer true. Great album but I am now able to travel without it.

Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Friday, 7 March 2003 09:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Brilliant album.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 13:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Great album. Although I cannot see what (apart from the drugs Arthur Lee was taking at the time) is supposed to be particularly "psychedelic" about the music.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 7 March 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Maybe the people is grebt.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

hi Chris! I checked this morning and saw that you also had started a Love-thread in the past, it's clear you like them!
another thing: remember the Prayer Boat mp3's...? i was wondering: do you use slsk? maybe i can locate the files through the ILM-room, if you're willing to go there... bye!

willem (willem), Friday, 7 March 2003 14:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

oh my william! I'm so sorry about those mp3's. I don't have them on my pc anymore, but can put them on there. yup, i use slsk and my username is formerlypoopsmcgee. i will put them on this weekend.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

that's great! thanx!

willem (willem), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

and im on the ILM room.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Definitely classic, although I think the other 3 albums they did for Elektra (Love, Da Capo and Four Sail) have been unfairly overshadowed by it.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes, Love and Da Capo are great as well, but I think Forever Changes is superior to both.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Seeing Mr. Lee perform "Forever Changes" live has convinced me of what I already knew - it's miles better than "Pet Sounds", make that light years better. The fascinating thing about Arthur is that's he's the original poetic thug - believe me, he didn't go to prison for nuthin' (tho his sentence was ludicrous).

Dadaismus, Friday, 7 March 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Arthur Lee - Poetic Thug or Buddhist Punk?

hstencil, Friday, 7 March 2003 16:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Absolute classics, "Da Capo" and "FC." And were recognized as great works way back in the late '60s, from what I have read, they're all over Meltzer's "Aesthetics of Rock." The first one is nice too, and I have a sneaking fondness for a lot of Love/AL's later stuff.

I thought the recent Wire piece was hysterical, Arthur Lee shouldn't have to explain himself to anyone at this point...

Jess Hill (jesshill), Friday, 7 March 2003 16:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Its Arthurs b-day today by the way.

http://home1.inet.tele.dk/tks/love/grafik/Copenhagen70/Arthur01.jpg

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

I just noticed his Batman vest. Sweet.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 7 March 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

how's Love/Lee live nowadays? On March 29, this: Love with Arthur Lee featuring "The Forever Changes String and Horn Ensemble" is announced at a club here in Rotterdam... Should I get tickets?

willem (willem), Friday, 7 March 2003 16:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Saw 'em sans strings/horns in December and they were awesome!

hstencil, Friday, 7 March 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

three months pass...
Totally guilty of buying this many years ago as 'one of those albums one should own' and liking it quite a lot but prefering some stuff off 'Da Capo'. But having seen it performed just over a week ago at Glastonbury I still can't shake it from my head. What sticks most it the way the lyrics suddenly made spine-tingling sense when hearing him singing them live. Curiously, perhaps the greatest highlight of all was the Bryan MacLean song 'Old Man'. I couldn't really tell, until I had been loving you

And JESUS when he sang Served my time, served it well.

N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 6 July 2003 23:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

again Nick, I'm jealous.

Chris V. (Chris V), Monday, 7 July 2003 11:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'd never heard this before but agree with N. I saw some of his peformance at Glastonbury (on tv) and was very moved.

David (David), Monday, 7 July 2003 11:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

four years pass...

"Hey, Mr. Echols... man... I don't understand your trip, man, you stay in one range of the guitar throughout the whole thing, man... 'cos, you know, you're the one who says you can blow in the studio, man... nobody to bug you... you've gotta blow, man... are you ready to take it from the top?"

Tom D., Thursday, 7 February 2008 10:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Outtasite solo, man!

Mark G, Thursday, 7 February 2008 10:35 (sixteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

To be given away free with The Times on Monday.

I suppose being given away with a newspaper is now just one step down from the "3 for £15" HMV offer and one above being downloaded from the torrents.

James Mitchell, Sunday, 5 October 2008 23:03 (sixteen years ago) link

But it is a really, really good album.

It doesn't matter what you do with it James.

It's just good that people will hear it who might otherwise not.

Sven Hassel Schmuck, Sunday, 5 October 2008 23:09 (sixteen years ago) link

Sven OTM

xpost:
Well, think of all the people who'll be pleasantly surprised on hearing it for the first time.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Sunday, 5 October 2008 23:11 (sixteen years ago) link


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