Radiohead In Not-A-Bunch-Of-Black-Guys Shocker!

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so does Xgau, as anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention to him ever can attest

Matos, one day you will be famous enough that people will assume you are saying Xgau is gay. They may even start threads about it.

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 01:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Side issue:
I wonder how many yuppies got into world music after reading the reams and reams of good press Xgau wrote about Afropop?
(Or does Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon get all the credit for acquainting the golf and croquet crowd to m'bube/m'baqanga/m'balax?)

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 01:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's always interesting to read one of these epic threads from post #1 to post #472 all at once, see the ebbs and flows of the conversation, alliances made and broken, grudges and biases lovingly exposed. I love message boards.

I'm probably not reading enough into it, but my general impression of the piece was: jeez, they might be the best Band That Matters we've got, but it sure would be nice if they were actually better. Being in the "I like Radiohead but..." camp, I'm sympathetic. I think the only generation gap that shows up here is nothing to do with taste and mostly to do with how much you thing it matters to have a Band That Matters. I think Christgau cares more about that than I do, and I even kind of understand why. But it doesn't invalidate his perspective, and I think he's fun to read. Of course he's a pretentious college boy, and he's writing for an audience of "pretentious college boys" (a demographic group that, of course, includes lots of men and women of all ages), and so when he puts down something as being too "pretentious college boy," he's assuming his audience will get the joke. I think he's one of the funniest writers out there, and that's why I like him. I like his jokes.

JesseFox (JesseFox), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 03:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

thing=think

My culpa.

JesseFox (JesseFox), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 03:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

disclaimer: Xgau, to a large extent, is why I am here. I laughed out loud four times (with, not at) when reading the article the first time through.

I read "Africa" here as a stand-in for rhythm, both in terms of influence and contemporary product (in that the chief marginal distinction of the continent's music, writ large, is its rhythmic qualities, i bushwa). The piece ends up quite clearly on a (re)statement of Xgau's aesthetic position - he favors foregrounding rhythm over harmony, on principle. In practice, Radiohead does not (though Xgau liked Kid A because it veered into something approximating a groove).

doesn't this:

"But no matter who's right, if anyone is, the future of Hail to the Thief is unlikely to have much bearing on the future of rock or anything else."

suggest that there is NOTHING going on there?

he's referring to what the album represents (privileging non-rhythmic elements in "rock" music), not the album itself. he considers the album pleasant, though not necessarily his style, as i understand it.

a.k.a. "the narcissism of small differences: part MCMXIII"

Then what do you make of his Distinctions Not Cost-Effective trope?

I should read the whole piece, but the deep irony of ending that paragraph with "this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy" is staggering me.

said before, but this pretty much approximates his stated perception of his audience. and considering his self-description as a "peculiar combination of pretentious and unpretentious" (paraphrase, perhaps), it's at least somewhat self-referential.

christgau's pretty far along in his critical career for the idea that compelling music can be made without obvious reference to af-american idioms to be such a revelation!!!

he's been putting classical music down for 35 years. but he said similar half-nice things about a prog-record or two in the 70s book.

the problem comes because he's been putting these terms forth for years, in much more concrete ways, elsewhere and in other pieces, and he definitely expects his readership to catch the x-references. so those of us who read him a lot (like me) do, and he alienates lots of other folx. not sure what to say to that except shrug.

ditto.

oh, and ha, my immediate first two responses to who has emotional range - S-K and Baaba Maal.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have this picture of ILXORS and their record collections with recs filed in terms of 'emotions': the 'sad' recs on one corner, the 'happy' recs on another and so on. all the emotions are alphabetised, of course.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 07:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Also, I get the feeling that people are equating 'narrow emotional range' with 'not happy' which just doesn't make sense.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 12:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes ..."

Fraught and self-involved, sure; but Thom's actually a really funny guy. I guess if you don't think things like The Castle or Buffalo 66 are funny, or can't see the humor built into personas from Bryan Ferry's to Mark E. Smith's, or haven't really listened to the lyrics ... "Karma Police" is a funny song; so are "My Iron Lung" and even "Fake Plastic Trees." "Living in a Glass House" is positively silly. People are too credulous about all the 'despair.'

Oh, and "Sulk," if not quite cheery, is a pretty bracing tune.

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Evan, is there anyone in the world you actually like?

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

duh, himself

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

i would really like to know how matthews philosophy differs from the voices

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

y'know, before my next piece runs

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

dude don't think so much

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Buffalo 66 isn't funny

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

plz can we have another 800 post thread by morning otherwise I'll be v disappointed.

your wish is my command!

the genie of the lamp (dog latin), Thursday, 3 July 2003 01:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Buffalo 66 isn't funny

well i'm glad that's settled ...

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 17:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hi Brian -- don't know if you've posted here before, but I just wanted to let you know I've enjoyed your writing for the Reader. (And you gave a good review to a theatre production I was involved in, so yeah!) Also: Buffalo 66 is, too, funny.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

so! are radiohead still all white guys, then?

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah but one of them's got a fucked up eye!

Sonny A. (Keiko), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

quick please someone photoshop hootie into a radiohead band photo.

amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

or dan perry

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

quick please someone photoshop hootie into dan perry

Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

and put some bootyflakes on top.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

for the first (and hopefully last) time, dude's name is not hootie. twas a friend of theirs.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

he is hootie in our hearts.

amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

and put some bootyflakes on top.

i'd like to see Oolong wear that!

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/2003736220157000832004.jpg

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's so cute when people defend Buffalo 66!

M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

:-0

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

C'mon, though, Ben Gazzara? Priceless!

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

or rather, THIS Oolong!

http://www.syberpunk.com/images/oolong/pancake3.jpg

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Radiohead pays more attention to rhythm than most other rock bands I can think of today, the examples are countless and they definitely know their way around a groove (and for me, the odd-time stuff serves more of a purpose than ye olde prog-rock).

Buffalo 66 is hilarious.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

thanks jaymc ... what show?

[it's so cute when people defend Buffalo 66!]

well i'm glad that's settled ...

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

shit. it won't post the picture of Oolong, the Rabbit What Wears a Panckage on His Head

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

thanx to jordan for parroting xgau

James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Brian: I work with Tangerine Arts Group, who did Phantasia & Wyrd's Sybaritic Shadow Show last November. At least I think you reviewed that, yes?

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

more attention to rhythm does not =! old idm skin grafts

they don't have a rhythm guitarist to save their life

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 21:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

jaymc: that was me all right.

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've only skimmed the article, but I thought he was saying that they are more about melody and harmony than rhythm?

Oddly enough, Myxomatosis has elements in common with some African folkloric music in that it basically feels like a triple meter and a duple meter at the same time (two speeds of duple time really, since it has that 2:3 polyrhythm going through it).

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 July 2003 23:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've read that Radiohead worship Bitches Brew ...

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 23:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

... for whatever that's worth.

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Friday, 4 July 2003 00:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can see them appreciating it on a sound level. And a pretension level. I'd like them better if they worshipped In a Silent Way (ha) or better yet Jack Johnson, tho I consider the latter more of a McLaughlin record than a Miles record (which may be ignorant of the latter's arrangements).

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 4 July 2003 02:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

They do worship In a Silent Way.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 4 July 2003 03:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

shit. it won't post the picture of Oolong, the Rabbit What Wears a Panckage on His Head
http://www.rutgers.edu/~ryates/brett/dragonball/dbshot3.gif
Do you mean this one? (I always thought he was a piglet.)

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 July 2003 02:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Aaargh! It's an anti-Oolong conspiracy!

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 July 2003 02:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

let's try this Oolong:

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/2003751903893294663221.jpg

Kingfish (Kingfish), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

hey, that one worked.

Kingfish (Kingfish), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wonder when they'll get around to worshipping 'You're Under Arrest' - oh, Sting beat them to it!

dave q, Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

will the next hood album receive this much attention?

keith (keithmcl), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh...I thought you meant the Dragonball Z character.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 6 July 2003 02:47 (twenty-one years ago) link


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