King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

Mark- Apparently Red is KC's favourite album ever. He also loved the raincoats, having written some brief notes for the reissue of their excellent debut. Even though nirvana sucked he had good taste (though I think that he only said that to piss off the metal fans that bought his music).

Agnes Moorehead, obviously. :)

Ladies of the Road and Formetera Ladies are the clunkers I refered to above btw. Though I think Sinfields worst lyrics are on Still.

Truly unfathomable, I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. However, it explains much. There's a site where I help write reviews for prog rock albums, and we once received a snippy letter for dissing the Wake of Poseidon album (or at least, not being fanboy-ish enough towards it), and the person, opening up by claiming we had "less wit and culture than an ant" (yep) used much of the material found in the Wake of Poseidon chapter as their defense of the album and its depth. Maybe it was even The Keeper of the onyx-embolden'd-husking-jewelled-warthogs website himself! :)

Cue your golf swing.

Wow... Mind = blown.

Very cool! thx ned

"that's some really wild stuff"

In The Lounge of the Crimson King

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.

I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.

Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so

the story just got weirder from there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILSVAUjd5QI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Fripp speaks

excellent...wish it was longer

2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.

'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.
― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO.

its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.

So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/lk/l/w/dd360157ea8e506661983ea7336800bc/4330188.gif

classic:

'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaz8xfFjuE

Guess Fripperlips is done for good?

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/king-crimson-robert-fripp-quits-music-business/

Hope he enjoys retirement!

He's been retired for a while, I believe. Couple of years? Also, for what it's worth, he was semi-retired for pretty much the second half of the '70s, too.

Yeah, this is not new news.

Wait, hold up:

A multi-disc deluxe edition of the 1973 Crimson classic ‘Larks’ Tongues in Aspic’ is set for release in October and will include 13 CD’s, a DVD and a Blu-Ray disc.

13 CDs!?!?!

Disc details at the bottom of this page: http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm

So basically a bunch of live discs previously sold through the site. That's cool though. Band in the Muir era was neat.

Wasn't aware Kanye had sampled "Schizoid Man," which Fripp seems pissed he didn't get paid for. Wonder if he ever paid any royalties for quoting "Surrey With The Fringe On Top" in "Moonchild?"

I figured Fripp was done, but this is the first time I ever heard him say it (I know he said he wasn't going to tour anymore some 4-5 years ago), maybe I'm just not paying attention

Fripp got paid for Schizoid sample, but iirc only after going straight to Kanye and the two of them presenting a united front to the label. He was very careful never to criticize West, even though he could have for not clearing the sample ahead of time.

fripp did an album with mel collins and jakko jakwhatsit last year, so he hasn't been retired for 4 years. it was a bit disappointing, definitely not the new lease on KC I think they were hoping for.

Well it certainly wasnt the new lease on KC I was hoping for.

If the '72-74 lineup reunited I would buy a ticket in about 5 seconds flat. Anything beyond that, I don't really care.

Pretty sure Cross & Wetton are the only ones game for that.

I'd be up for another outing of any other combination that the last 2 though (the Jakko one or previous I mean).

what happened? everyone was super positive about the first iteration Beat—can getting a new drummer ruin them that much? did they just not rehearse for the tour?

from what I've heard they only did a week of rehearsals with Bozzio so maybe he just doesn't know the material that well. I'm kind of surprised at that, feel like this material is the sort of thing you need to know backwards and forwards. I am seeing them in a week so hopefully they'll have it nailed down a bit better...heard the SD show last night was better

apparently there were a bunch of technical issues in Napa, Belew couldn't seem to get any of his guitars in tune and the in-ear monitors kept going out, wonder if Adrian's fall caused his guitar to get screwed up

Let's blame Tony for a change

i didn't see the show, but i'm wondering how belew's health is doing? it is really sad to see seniors out on the road because they have to be. yeah, bill rieflin spent the time he had remaining on the road with king crimson, but he wasn't out there trying to drum on that tour...

I hate to gloat because I realize it's in large part a generational thing BUT -- actually I don't 'hate to gloat' because everybody should just enjoy those rare moments of schadenfreude when they come along in life ... King Crimson was one of my first post-Beatles LP rock obsessions. My paternal grandfather knew that his 10-year old grandson was already nuts about pop music, especially every little thing about the vinyl LP, from close study of every last detail of the cover to attempted deciphering of the dark and light patterns on the grooves of the record itself. So for my birthday that year, he took me to a chain record store at a Winston-Salem NC strip mall and told me to pick out any record I wanted. I'd never heard of the band, but one look at the cover of 'In the Wake of Poseidon' and my choice was made. Once I found out what little I could from Rolling Stone's Random Notes column about the band, I saved my allowance and got the band's debut. I remember with incredible clarity the days and circumstances of first seeing, buying, holding, and hearing every succeeding Crimson album. When Fripp said CRIMSON IS NO MORE after 'Islands' (which I found a worrisome step down after 'Lizard', then and today my favorite Crimson record) I was crushed. It was a miracle when I read (in RS's Random Notes briefs again) that MY HERO had not only resurrected KC but that for the new lineup he'd poached my favorite drummer (BRUFORD! Of course --- during the Crimson hiatus, I'd gotten into Yes bigtime, they were my second live concert, supporting ELP in Atlanta just before 'Fragile' was released in the US.) (My first concert was Steppenwolf, touring 'Steppenwolf 7' -- I owe these memories to my father, who messed me up in many ways, but is forgiven for chaperoning me to my first 7-8 concerts until I was 16 with a learner's permit and able to drive myself.) The day that I first saw the back cover of 'Larks Tongues' with that reassuring 'Robert Fripp: Guitar, Mellotron, and Devices' -- and also 'William Bruford: Drums and Percussives' is etched in my memory. As is the day that 'Starless and Bible Black' arrived in my Tampa FL record store on the very same day that I was to see the band live (for the only time) at Curtis Hixon Hall, co-headlining with Robin Trower. By 1975, my mother had found a St Petersburg FL newstand that had the Sunday NYT (for herself) and, unbelievably, the UK music weeklies (NME, Melody Maker, Sounds), so I read about the impending release of 'Red' by a KC that was now a trio, and in a front page brief under the headline 'Crimso To Split!'. Anyhow, twice thrown into turmoil by Fripp's whims meant that KC ended, FOR GOOD, with 'Red'. I followed the Fripp/Eno collabs with great interest of course, but that's because by then I was 16, 17, and 18 year old and Roxy and Bowie were my preparation for turning 18 at the moment that the 'Anarchy In The UK' 7' appeared on the Schoolkids Records checkout register, set beside the oft-forgotten (and not bad!) Genesis double 7-inch, 'Spot the Pigeon'. I wavered, but made the 'right choice': the Pistols. And I was exactly the right age to join an aspiring Tampa 'new wave' band, whose members, all of them a couple years older than me, and one of them ordering the UK imports for a record store, introduced me to Wire, X-Ray Spex, 'Shake Some Action' (great recent ILX thread on that Groovies classic BTW, it was too late for me to vote for it over the Big Star and Only Ones choices, alas.) Also, between Crimson's post-'Red' FINAL BREAKUP, I'd moved on to more interesting 'prog stuff' like everything Virgin put out in their Henry Cow / Gong / Robert Wyatt / Faust days. Anyhow, you can see where I'm headed. I bought 'Exposure'. I listened to a friend's copy of 'The League of Gentlemen' (the organ player that had left XTC! Wow!). When Fripp announced he was beginning a new group called 'Discipline' I was indifferent, although still unable to resist the magic of seeing the name 'Bill Bruford' listed as a member in the Melody Maker (or NME) story. BUT when 'HE' changed the name to King Crimson, undoubtedly at the behest of E.G. Records and their accountants, Fripp lost me for life. (YES, I heard the 'Beat' trilogy on other people's turntables, but I refused to hand over cash for them. Or fall for the endless following 'CRIMSON IS NO MORE SAYS FRIPP' only for a double trio faux-Crimson to appear etc. (I wavered about seeing the 'Thrak' era band at Town Hall in NYC for old times's sake, but that itch was scratched by a music video maker friend who was able to sneak me into that insane Double Yes 'Union' tour at its Long Island stop, and with backstage passes to boot! So I can say I 'met' -- or rather, observed, Jon Anderson and Alan White and Tony Kaye afterwards --- the rest were long gone.)

So ... observing from a distance Fripp's absurd 100-LP box sets of live shows, his 9, 10, or 11 piece 'King Crimson Tribute Band' tours, the DGM website and so on from a distance ... the only mistake I made was falling for paying for a DGM download of that one Crimson show I saw in '74, even leaving a comment praising the show and that lineup to the skies, thanking DGM for making it possible for me to 'relive that moment' etcetera ... oh, and politely asking the DGM folks to correct the spelling of Curtis Hixon Hall, Tampa (they never did: it still says 'Curtis HICKSON Hall', something that is bound to rub those of us who spent our adolescence in Central Florida merely because of our parents' job choices, and whose high school years were blighted by hordes of hicks, rednecks, and Florida Crackers. So -- if I'd been a decade younger, I might've been a big fan of the 'Beat' years, and I don't question the true excitement that many people derived from either Fripp's or Belew's competing / complementing tribute bands to certain KC 'eras.' But the 'schadenfreude' of hearing that the 'Beat' Tribute Band went from the Second Coming level of their previous tour to apparently being a pathetic joke now ... (I haven't forgotten that it was Terry 'Bozo' Bozzio' that replaced BRUFORD in the mediocre post-prog trio UK.) (I suppose I could go on to say how much I dislike Adrian Belew. NOT as a person! I've never met hin, and he seems like a truly nice guy. Except when he pouted on Facebook for several years about Fripp not inviting him to the King Crimson Big Band lineup. But ... I hated him with Zappa, with Talking Heads, with Bowie, I just can't stand it when he bends the headstock of his guitar and grins at the audience.) (Yes, he made fine faux-Fripp musical contributions to such superb albums as 'Lodger' and 'Remain in Light', I just don't want to SEE him while he does his thing.) (Also, I'm one of those cranks who love The Mothers of Invention, but hate Zappa. In other words, the original band. Although I love '200 Motels' also. Inconsistent, I know. It contains some of FZ's most convincing 'modern classical' music.)

And ALSO: I PAID DGM Live for the digital download of the 1974 Tampa show and it's made me very happy. But 'they' have filled my inbox with thrice-monthly emails claiming that I owe FRIPP and TOYAH even more money! I didn't ask to be a 'subscriber'! And it still says 'Curtis HICKson Hall' on the website! And NOW, Fripp's manager's son is making slop AI covers for Record Store Day Crimson Live releases!

[The first 7 King Crimson albums are among my favorite records EVAH! 'Lizard' and 'Starless and Bible Black' are my favorites from those two eras. And I was amongst the first to shell out the big bucks for 'The Great Deceiver', the excellent live 4-CD box set that was one of the first of that now-ubiquitous weird cultural phenomena: the mega-complete-live-outakes-surround sound-ATMOS-AI remix Experience in a Box that everybody from the Beatles is rushing out while all of us born pre-1970 and still addicted to physical media remain alive, only partially deaf, and still immensely wealthy compared, in the USA and Western Europe anyhow, to those born in 1985 and after.

XP to Kate --- I think you might be right RE Belew's health (I feel like I read something, but can't recall specifics), and if so, that's terrible. And Bill Rieflin was ... a saint, almost. A unique and incredibly generous person. What he and his wife went through in their final years ... I was just re-reading about his various interventions in (especially) 90s-era Swans, literally putting together the shards of music and emotion that Jarboe and Gira gave him, and turning it into music. :(

is it hypocritical of me to not read that wall of text

PS My apologies for my previous, absurd outburst. I am a longtime ILM lurker that has made only tentative comments to the forum recently, and will try to remain a lurker -- I have learned an absolutely unquantifiable amount from years of following the threads here. I just love King Crimson. And only want to add that anybody that has yet to hear the wonderful pre-Crimson 'Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp' album is in for a treat (especially in light of discussion of recent positive discussion of the 'pre-REAL-Genesis' LP, 'From Genesis to Revelation' -- it's not the Crimson that was revealed by 'In the Court of ...', but it's a terrific pop record. I had a Kornyphone/TAKRL bootleg of it since I was a teenager, but Fripp finally acknowledged it's existence and you can now buy a legitimate and remastered version of it. They've removed Fripp's somewhat gauche and unfunny between-songs narration, but that was part of its charm ... although some of the comedy seems less 'charming' by today's standards.) (A great album anyway.)

XP to Kate: I wouldn't read that wall of text either. And wouldn't feel hypocritical about not reading it either!

xp rushomancy, love you, but I fear it is rather...

xp enjoyed your wall of text, mg

funny, the other day I was thinking about how LCD Soundsystem did the whole "this is it folks, this is our last record, this is our last show, we really mean it" thing and everyone was like, "okay, see you in ten years". it didn't even wind up being that long. back then though I guess people weren't so cynical. when the Beatles split it really was final.

tbh the 80s band calling themselves King Crimson sat weird with me as well. on 90125 at least it's still Jon on there, they'd already kinda gone New Wave with Drama, also they didnt have Squire getting out there saying Yes is finished in every interview. King Crimson just adopted a totally different sound that centered on Adrian Belew, not just as singer but as songwriter and lyricist as well. I get they weren't gonna sound the same sonically, I mean no one was making records that sounded like Lizard in the early 80s, but spiritually it felt like an entirely different band too. I like Belew and think he's insanely talented (I'll grant he's pretty obnoxious, but I'll forgive it since by all accounts he's a very nice & down to earth guy) but he just does not handle the non-instrumental 70s stuff well when they've tried it. there's no edge or mystery or gruffness to his voice, something all the other Crimson singers had. I totally get why he wasn't invited to do the last tour. Though I also understand his sour grapes over it, I mean for two decades he was the guy keeping that band going, without him they'd have basically no material - it was only on their final album (Power to Believe) that the instrumental stuff started to approach how good they'd been in the past.

as far as I know nothing's going on with Belew health-wise, though I think he had gotten carpal tunnel surgery a year ago which he admitted made it hard to play some of the incredibly intricate 80's material. should be recovered now. feel like this tour will sort itself out as it goes on so long as Bozzio finds his groove. its not that unusual for these proggy bands to sound out of sorts early on and then play themselves into shape.

Saw Beat (still with Danny Carey) in Helsinki mid-July and they were TIGHT, so I think Bozzio is the factor that needs some breaking in.

apparently Belew mentioned on a podcast that Stewart Copeland was interested in joining but had prior commitments so it didn't work out. I don't think Copeland is right for this sort of thing, his entire shtick is he never really plays the same way twice, but it would've been real interesting to hear

PS My apologies for my previous, absurd outburst. I am a longtime ILM lurker that has made only tentative comments to the forum recently, and will try to remain a lurker -- I have learned an absolutely unquantifiable amount from years of following the threads here. I just love King Crimson. And only want to add that anybody that has yet to hear the wonderful pre-Crimson 'Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp' album is in for a treat (especially in light of discussion of recent positive discussion of the 'pre-REAL-Genesis' LP, 'From Genesis to Revelation' -- it's not the Crimson that was revealed by 'In the Court of ...', but it's a terrific pop record. I had a Kornyphone/TAKRL bootleg of it since I was a teenager, but Fripp finally acknowledged it's existence and you can now buy a legitimate and remastered version of it. They've removed Fripp's somewhat gauche and unfunny between-songs narration, but that was part of its charm ... although some of the comedy seems less 'charming' by today's standards.) (A great album anyway.)

― marjory gatorade, Monday, October 12, 2026 9:21 AM (two hours ago)

oh, please, do continue posting. we could always use more posters around here... just because i didn't read one of your posts is no reason to be dissuaded. also i like your display name, so, you know, stick around.

will also second the "Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp" rec, it's a fun record and while I don't find the humor particularly funny it is a pretty fascinating snapshot of a certain time and place. very Monty Python, though it predates them. the period between that record and In the Court is pretty fascinating - "Under the Sky" and "Make it Today" are great songs, would've been awesome to hear what a GG&F follow-up would've sounded like.

i do quite recommend the brondesbury tapes, some wonderful tracks... you could put together a theoretical "second giles, giles, & fripp" album from those songs, really, even if you would have to put "wonderland" on it.

Clips of San Diego bubbling up and Boz is all over the map, what is going on with him I wonder.

off-topic booming post inspiration but -- everything Virgin put out in their Henry Cow / Gong / Robert Wyatt / Faust days if you're looking for something to listen to and can re-imagine adrian belew but exceeding expectations, kavus torabi's recent gong records are way way way worth a listen

thank you to reggie (qualmsley) --- I've been wondering about Torabi's picking up the torch from Daevid Allen but haven't heard any of 'his' Gong albums yet. But I know of him well from his role in the latter-day Cardiacs --- I'm of the camp that thinks 'LSD' is absolutely fantastic (RIP T.S.) --- and have enjoyed Knifeworld and The Monsoon Bassoon. Where does he get all that energy from? Dunno, but he's a great guitarist and very entertaining interviewee (especially in the several YouTube videos I've seen where he's answered basically the same Cardiacs-related questions over and over i.e. when did you first see them? What was it like crash-learning the prehistoric-era Cardiacs repertoire for the Special Garage Concerts? Where was the group headed at the time of 'Ditzy Scene''s release and related concerts, and what was his role in making LSD (L.S.D.) a reality?) -- always funny, gracious, self-deprecating, and full of new details for each appearance. (And ditto for the podcasts and interviews he's done about Gong.) So yes, I need to see where Gong is at now, thx for the reminder!

the only band I can think of right now that transcends having zero original members is Tangerine Dream who just have put out consistently good stuff with an evolving line up for quite some time at this point.

the only band I can think of right now that transcends having zero original members

Napalm Death would like a word. (Did you know they covered a Cardiacs song once?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu5fDVMC0P4

Friday's Beat show in Denver has been cancelled, presumably due to low ticket sales.

thats wild, nearly all the shows on their first run sold out didn't they? despite the universally positive reviews maybe people just aren't interested in seeing this twice.

xxp - if you enjoy Kavus' stuff with Knifeworld you will definitely like the newer Gong albums. I think Daevid made it clear that he didn't want the new incarnation of Gong to sound like something he would do, but rather evoke the same feeling. its not as goofy a cosmic voyage but it's a cosmic voyage all the same. and a lot of Gong's trademarks like loads of glissando and rocking out in odd time signatures are still there. personally I actually prefer the newer trilogy slightly to the Radio Gnome one.

new Tangerine Dream are very cool as well. they still do studio albums but their main thing seems to be these ~30 minute improvised sessions which they do at every live show now I think, some of which get standalone releases. its a very Tangerine Dream thing to do and maybe where Edgar would've wound up had he not been doing 4 soundtracks every year.

"is it the same band" is a pretty complex question. there's kind of a spiritual element to it in my view but obviously you can argue that any way you want. with Discipline becoming King Crimson and Cinema becoming Yes you can accuse them of doing it for record sales but at that point they'd been professional musicians for over a decade, of course commercial concerns factor in. they're not just gonna get regular jobs. King Crimson I think are a band that could pull it off, I mean they only had one original member by the time of their second album and neither he nor any of the vocalists really embodied the band. but what the 80s band is doing is just so different, and when they did try to sound a bit like their chaotic old selves on ToaPP it didn't quite work out, imo Belew's first side is clearly the better one.

I can't say I'm too surprised this tour is faltering. Carey was the magic ingredient and without him it seems like the whole thing is falling apart. I would have gone to see them with Carey if they'd come to my town but I wouldn't cross the street to see them with Bozzio. As akm says upthread, if Carey wasn't available they should have gone with Mastelotto. If he wasn't available either then it's time to put this thing to bed.

yeah sales have not been as good this time. the napa show was maybe 3/4 full and last time it was totally sold out. I suspect not having a member of Tool on the roster has hurt a bit.

that said I did hear the San Diego show was better; no tech problems, but Bozzio not really thrilling anyone.

yah idk this is fuckin fire id be so stoked to see this irl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4-Wkwbgcic

that was one I checked out because it's one that Bozzio should definitely have down, but it still feels kind of lackluster vs his drumming on the original version

jfc, it's StSanders live

Building off the discussion above, Gong absolutely but also I think Soft Machine have put out some very good records recently and they transcend the no original members thing quite nicely still.

yeah that would have been cool to see if they'd played it in Napa. but they did not.

I'm hearing the Vegas show went much better, plus they are getting in another guitar tech for the tour.

https://theonion.com/dad-calling-just-to-say-he-loves-king-crimson/

oldie but a goodie that seems to have gotten around a lot this week.

Sorr if it's a repost, I'd never seen it before today and I don't recall seeing it posted on this thread before.