On Djing...

First three,

If you can scratch well(or not), here ya go:

1. Start it up with a sexy hip hop joint or a downtempo track. Nothing bangin', just sweet yet attention grabbing. Make it a track that people aren't exactly familiar with but you wanna make them curious. You must scratch/mix something with it you are sure of your abilities though.
2. Mystic Moods' "Cosmic Sea" is a massive cut to ease into as a second song. Flip it and mix/scratch with something comfy.
3. When the ridiculousness goin' off, the crowd should be into it, then really go into funky overdrive with something like "Theme from Blackbelt Jones" or your holy grail blaxploitation of choice. The party should be off to a good start at this point.

Then when they are getting drunk and frisky and ready to dance,"More, More, More" and "White Lines" are never disappointing spins.

try to keep it interesting, that's my only advice.

i opened my last set with the books' "enjoy your worries, you may never have them again" with robert ashley's "in sara, mencken, christ & beethoven..."... tried to keep it fun and strange.

closed with a bird songs record that i was messing with into the long intro to the colette no5 DFA mix of casiotone for the painfully alone's "baby it's you"... for me it's just something that makes my hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

i really want to do this in some form or another and i think i have a potential foothold at an older gay bar in town. i know/am casual friends with the manager and i've asked him a few times about an empty monday night slot. he's been a little cool about it so far but encouraged me to come on a monday and hear what the later guy was playing. i'm not really hip to popular gay classics or anything but i think some italo and etc. disco wouldn't bomb? (crowd is older gay dudes and random hustlers.) the manager is an ex-cattle-showing country guy who probably wouldn't get too excited if i talked to him in playlist-ese, which is how i'm used to talking to people about music. but i really think the bar (one of the oldest landmarks in the city but kind of "uncool" now) might benefit from something a little more interesting than what it plays right now -- bring in a younger crowd, etc., but also keep its current clientele psyched to come out.

really my question is how should i make this happen? (obviously the first step would be to go there on a monday night and check it out and talk to manager; i haven't yet because of the holidays and assorted stress.) any things to say / pitfalls to avoid? i really want to dj somewhere, somehow, and right now this seems like my best bet.

in general though, how pathetic and gauche is it these days to do the mp3jay thing with an ipod? i think at this particular bar no one would really give a shit, but if i want to keep it up / do something else... i need to invest in a turntable and start buying vinyl right?

re general dj-ing advice: what's the best way for someone who likes music a lot and likes watching people enjoy music and has music he thinks people would enjoy to start playing enjoyable music for people in a public (or any kind of) setting? keep in mind i'm not very good w/ people or schmoozing but getting better and i feel like this is necessary for my future uh happiness. thanks

do you have a laptop?

download traktor and use that.

Based on my experience I'd give two general pieces of advice:
1) Get used to people making ridiculous wishes for a tune, and generally not understanding you don't have every record they'd like to hear readily available in your bag.
2) Get used to people trying to hit on you.

I've DJed mostly in university student parties though, maybe your club is a more specialized setting so these things won't happen so often.

I am a rock guy that came to the DJ game pretty late. It's a fucking blast getting to play my records for other people.

Here's a few quick tips:

1) unless you are going to do dance nights, you don't need to learn to beat match, scratch, or show off any other "skills"

2) FLOW is the single most important thing you can provide. Don't fuck with the audience repeatedly, even if you're playing adventurous music. At least use the "punishment/reward" concept if you must satisfy yourself

3) Don't be embarrassed to pick up a really cheap and useful book called "How do Dj Right". I read great reviews of it, and was blown away at how simple and correct its methodology is.

***

Other than that, yeah--don't use mp3s if you can help it. That's gay.

BTW, you don't need to own turntables unless you're going to do a lot of gigs at places that don't already have them. I do recommend investing in your own cartridges though. That will run you around $60 and will save your records from harsh needles on public decks.

Also, in case you didn't get it, my mp3 comment was a joke. I rely heavily on my vinyl collection because I don't beat match or whatever. So I fall back on two things: my great record collection and my immaculate flow.

:)

Oh yeah, one more thing I've learned: the more drunk the crowd, the less adventurous music the probably want to hear. If you're playing at some club centred around certain genre(s) it might be different, but in general clubs people just want to have a bit of fun and not expand their musical horizons too much.

i've got good flow, thanks. gr8080, no laptop :(. do you think a cheap-ish notebook/laptop w/ traktor or whatever is a better investment for all-purpose dance-ish semi-weirdo dj-ing than a turntable in the future?

tuomas, i'm not gonna be too weird. if anything i'm too sensitive to crowd moods--that is, if i take advice from upthread and don't do it drunk.

And Nate is correct about not needing specialized DJ skills: if it's not a dance or hip-hop club, people probably don't care shit about such tricks. Basically you just need to learn to use the crossfader and try not to follow one tune with another one in completely different tempo (no slow r'n'b jams immediately after a fast house tune). The only things people will notice are blatant fuck-ups, like accidentally pressing the pause button. Which leads to one more piece of advice - don't get drunk, even if your drinks are on the house. A few drinks might be good to ease the tension, but if you get too drunk the potentiality of such fuck-ups is very high.

(x-post)

thx tuomas, good advice.

p.s. manager told me cds were the operating media here so i guess that would be best (though i think i can get away w/ an ipod since the mixing "booth" is like above and hidden from anyone and i could probably find a stereo in and bring some jacks). what i really need to do is check out the set-up tomorrow and see how they're mixing em.

i'd stay away from using your ipod and use cds if you can. burn your best sounding files to cd at least.

ok thx

if you're unfamiliar w/ the basics of using a dj mixer (or even if you are familiar but haven't used the specific type the bar has) see if you can drop in before they open and mess around for half an hour or so, so you can get comfortable with the basics of going from one cd deck to the next.

even if you don't plan on beat matching, the more comfortable you can get with compensating for volume variances between different tracks, minimizing dead air between tracks, perfecting your general flow, etc.

also, bring your own headphones if you have a pair with a 1/4" jack.

also, nate otm. at least stop by the book store and spend half an hour thumbing through "how to dj right".

ok. i'm not a total mixer n00b but i'm unfamiliar with dual cd mixers if that's really what they have. this is great advice + making me think about what i haven't actually thought about yet because i'm too self-deluded and arrogant. i'll check out the set-up tomorrow if i can and report back for everyone's reading enjoyment. and i've got to grab that book; it looks really really helpful. thx nate!

dont forget to have fun, too.

dont get too caught up in pre-arranging your music ("i'll play this track and then this track and then this track...") the best part of deejaying, even at a bar w/o a dancefloor, is connecting with the room and seeing where they're at with regard to what you're playing and how that influences your next selection.

if someone makes a request and you have it, play it. if you don't have it, be honest, but use their request as a springboard to a different topic, musical or otherwise. if people are super annoying and complaining about what you're playing or making vague and non-specific requests, tell them that the next deejay plays the kind of stuff they're into and he goes on in an hour.

also don't listen to tuomas; if you get to drink for free take advantage of that shit! its a bar, not a dance club, right?

always play 'you make me feel mighty real' by sylvester.

haha yes! sylvester will not be MIA

yeah gr8080 i just need to check their set-up and make that work w/ what i have +++++ the flexibility axis. this place is definitely NOT a dance place. people are drinking, eyeing other men and occasionally playing pool. some nights the bar just plays an xm radio station. monday is 'oldies' night but god knows what that means (general '70s/'80s). if anything i need to educate myself on some mainstream (gay) shit from that era to keep the crowd alive. and i am NEVER one to turn down a free drink.

I didn't mean you should take any free drinks, just that you shouldn't get too drunk, if you want avoid errors. But if it's just a bar night I guess it doesn't really matter that much.

I think it's always good to know the general age of your audience, because people usually tend to love the music of their youth the most, so you'll know what songs will be guaranteed floorfillers. For example, I usually DJ in student parties where people are in their early twenties, and I've noticed I shouldn't play too many eighties and early nineties tunes, because those youngsters might not be familiar with them at all. One time I was playing "Informer" by Snow, and two girls actually came to ask me what song it is, they'd never heard it before.

x-post haha i'd like fuck you if you played informer.

nah it really does since i won't be familiar with the setup. but you know, i know my alcohol limit for basic motor/mental control etc. this is all riding on future knowledge at this point though so.....

thanks everyone for yore knowledge and responses. i really needed the feedback, if only to get my own juices going for the whole thing. do you ever have something stewing in the back of yr mind for way too long but you just don't have the guts to bring it into a frontal lobe until you mention it to other people? that's me on this thread. thanks bye

I had weekly DJ gig at a Irish pub in Sunnyvale for a couple of months but ended up quitting over some (admittedly) mild drama. The owner wanted Thursday to become a "Rockin' College Party Night" but we ran into a few problems:

1. The bar was totally dead almost every Thursday, not very rockin'
2. When remotely college-aged people showed up they wanted to hear hip-hop
3. Barflys would bitch and moan when I went off the classic rock playbook and tried to play something edgy like The Clash or Talking Heads.

All of this would have been much more tolerable if they ever gave me A DRINK TICKET OR TWO. I stuck it out for a couple months because the pay was decent, which is never a good reason to keep do something you otherwise love. But after some drama with being replaced without notice for a couple weeks by Ronnie the Karaoke DJ I decided to quit.

I've gone back to mobile DJing and private parties and am much, much happier.

anyway.. strongo break a legski!

haha that's not strongo.

the best part of deejaying, even at a bar w/o a dancefloor, is connecting with the room and seeing where they're at with regard to what you're playing and how that influences your next selection.

this is great advice.

strgn u know u better announce ur first gig we'll be there. i don't know shit about djing so carry on.

if you ever want to play vinyl, needles are essential, as not all clubs even have a house pair and you're expected to bring your own...and if they do have a house pair they're usually crap.

Depending on the quality of the dual CD players, you'll likely find it much easier to use than mixing with your ipod, though having the ipod as back-up won't hurt.

If you're going to burn a set of CDs, make 2 copies of each, that way you can mix from one song two another on the same comp.

Use a short fade or do a quick fade on the first song and fade in or even just start the second song from zero. For instance, when you're cueing the second CD you'll start getting used to finding the beat and even when not beatmixing, you can still make for a smoother transaction by starting on beat. You'll also find yourself getting really bored back there and you'll play around with beatmatching in your headphones because there's nothing else to do. That's how I learned to DJ at least.

ok that makes more sense now that i've finally checked out the two-cd deck. the guy who drops it there monday evening (6-9) is gonna school me on the decks next week (hopefully). and in any case i think i've got a night, or something. thanks everyone for the info and encouragement.

p.s. what sounds as good as "inspiration information" by shuggie otis?

eddie kendricks - 'date with the rain' y/n

definitely practice a bit beforehand. it's actually quite scary, even in a bar or something, suddenly being in control of the music that's playing. stuff like volume levels is actually really important too especially if you're using music that's come from bought cds and mp3s etc, just make sure you stay with the lights at the same level on the individual channels and use the gains to help you with this.

it can be sort of embarassing if you are not beatmatching and the track you mix in is way too loud (or way too quiet)

I wouldn't bother using the crossfader, just volumes up and down, it's more logical when you start off.

if you can practice on the soundsystem even for 45 mins or an hour beforehand that's pretty good too. I know it's a bar but some records sound much more manic and loud when you play them on a bigger system: you may have stuff you planned to play early on that is like this and you'll think "oops" when you play it.

if nobody is dancing, don't be afraid to make things more mellow rather than more intense.

i had a recurring and cliched dream where the track is about to finish and for some reason you haven't and can't get the next one going.

we talk about that a lot on a DJ mailing list I'm on. I don't know if it's specifically anxiety about DJing, or just your mind using that as a way to express anxiety in general. I've been DJing for well over 10 years and in every situation possible, and while I still can get a little nervous, I'm pretty comfortable DJing, yet I'm constantly having these dreams where the song is about to end and I don't have my records with me or I have records but they're all the wrong ones or the equipment is working...

i have been teed up to play a party tonight. i'm not actually a dj and i'm out of practice!! is this going to be a disaster???

the party is a 'P'-themed party. i am going to fudge it with paradise garage-y records, ie: the disco and house in my collection

my first thought:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYTEQjwxXzU

So, I'm thinking about buying a CDJ, as I don't intend to stop buying CD's, and as I have/buy a lot of straight up dance albums, which have many a track that it would be nice to be able to mix.

This all makes me nervous, though, since I've always been rubbed the wrong way by CDJ's, and I can't help feel it'll be an affront to my vinyl (I would really hate to start neglecting it as a neglect). Keep in mind I have no intention to, and don't really want to, use this to play burned CD's.

These aren't cheap, even on craigslist, so I have no idea if it'll be worth it?

must admit i've toyed with this idea in the past - and never followed it up due to a) not being a working DJ, b) the cost.

(party refernced upthread was excellent - tho i finished up lost in a k-hole somewhere - then i played another party a couple months later and it was terrible. never again.)

Hmmn. Well I might able to get a good pioneer one for as little as $400 on craigslist, but even still, $400 doesn't just come out of nowhere.

i guess if you already have enough cds with enough music unavailable to you on vinyl then it is definitely worth it

i think once you've made the leap though, it might be difficult to resist the temptation of buying mp3s and burning them to cd-r, and in that case you'd probably be better off with a copy of serato or whatever

Yeah, I'm kind of afraid of that, but I'm kind of weird in my resistance to burning mp3's (see: "lol teenage guilt over stealing music"), most notably in the fact that a week ago I deleted all the mp3's off my computer (backed up of course) to focus on listening to my acquired music more.

It seems like there's all sorts of pressures to move away from vinyl, and I hope this wouldn't be a push in the wrong direction (though having only one would prevent that).

i feel like i once knew that but must’ve forgotten. big fan of your mixes

now wondering if table knew that when he called stirm a member of bicep. trying to unpeel the layers of this..

I'm pretty sure table is aware of this and was making a badly formed sarcastic remark

just stopping into say i had no idea and am doubly ashamed and embarrassed. i love Optimo.

bye again

"le oops" as the french say.

i was listening to ...present Psyche Out mix just a month or two ago! so cool.

oh no xp

i know im not a very active participant in this often wonderful thread, mostly because i wouldnt really call myself much of a dj, but i do read every post and if theres one place on ilx where we can fix things gone bad then maybe this is it? would greatly miss both of you tbh

I am going to post this here and then actually leave ILX for a little while, mostly in the hope that stirmonster sees it and returns to this space that I sullied so thoroughly.

Stirmonster, I am truly sorry about what happened this morning. As ever, I was super excited to see an Optimo set, and was interested to see what seemed to me to be an odd pairing do a b2b. I made a petty and sarcastic joke thinking that you were just flexing on me for not recognizing what was going on during the set, and of course didn’t know the context, so my comment obviously hit close to the bone. I can’t undo what I wrote, and am really embarrassed and ashamed about the assumptions I made about who was playing what and about the experience in general. It’s easy for me , an armchair and occasional dancefloor commentator, to make shitty and disparaging remarks about what a performer does, but that ease doesn’t make it right or justify its nastiness. Dancing during Optimo sets, both live and in my living room, have been some of the best moments I’ve had during my time in and out of dance music. Hell, even when I wasn’t as tuned into the scene, I made sure to go to Optimo gigs when I could. I have numerous videos of the set from Sunday that I have watched over and over again and showed to others, always with a smile on my face. But enough, because I know gassing you up doesn’t make up for my shitty behavior.

In many music threads over the years, your knowledge and enthusiasm have been infectious and really helped this space. It pains me to think that my idiotic flippancy would ruin that for you and everyone else here, and I hope that you will return to ILM. I am fine keeping my distance from you, tho will obviously always appreciate reading your contributions if you decide to return.

In deep sincerity and in the spirit of hopeful reconciliation,
table

PS- I don’t know if stirmonster’s ilxmail works, but if it doesn’t and someone knows how to contact them, please share this with them.

i got your email, greatly appreciate it and replied. it is all good and there is absolutely no need for you to leave.

i'm now pretty embarrassed i got so upset over that. apologies.

i'd like to add that i should probably avoid threads like this. one of the things i have most loved about this place over all the years i have been posting is just being a pretty anonymous music nerd getting to post on threads about music i love with a small number (often very small) of vaguely similarly minded folk. there is nowhere else i have found like it and i don't suppose i ever will. i do find it a lot tricker and awkward when being a music business professional gets in the mix.

anyway, i love this place and am sure this won't be my last post. do carry on.....

<3

<3 x2

I am hugely relieved that this situation has been so positively resolved. I enjoy posts from both of you. stirmonster, FWIW, I mostly tune out your professional life when reading your posts on here, as I do with the other regular poster on this board with a similarly well known professional life, so please don't be a stranger on this thread.

(Also, many years ago on this board, I was on the receiving end of a flippant/snarky judgement of something which I wrote for a national newspaper, posted by someone who didn't realise that I was the writer. It stung. They were embarrassed and apologetic, and we amicably moved on.)

hopefully table comes back soon after one of the most memorable "meeting your heroes" stories in ILXOR history. I hope and expect they have a drink together in Philly next time things line up.

This sadly reminds me I did not meet tabes when I was in Philly in May but then again I am neither a DJ nor a hero, so.

Well now you're just fishing for compliments

I mean you can make me a hero sandwich, it's all I need.

Look I really like you Ned and you have many great qualities, but I just don't think you'd make a tasty sandwich

Glad to see everyone is friends again :)

Wow, that was... something. ILM really is a great place.

I'm a shadow of a whisper here but having watched the whole thing unfold, and the resolution, got to repeat that ilx is the sanest place on the internet.

(New borad description)

In Philly it is more meet your hoagie.

Speaking of DJing, getting ready for the monthly radio show I do with the est. NickB tonight at 7pm (sorry Nick’s nerves ). https://www.slackcity.org.uk/special-treatment

I was going to just dip in for a little bit but I got hooked. Great stuff, you guys.

aww emily thank you! we miss you in brighton, you know that? <3

Glad to hear you enjoyed it :) One day we should do a Nottingham road trip from Brighton.

is there an archived version of this to listen back to by any chance?

Hopefully over the weekend, just need to collate the tracklisting and blurb and upload the file.

nice one, will give it a listen next week then!

Has Armand Van Helden: I Want Your Soul become massive again this year, or is this just a Yorkshire thing? I've been quite taken aback by its surge in popularity.