Joni Mitchell: Classic or Dud

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Some reasons to admire Joni:

1. The completely unique sound she gets out of an acoustic guitar on "Blue". 'A Case Of You' = classic.

2. "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns": my definition of Pazz & Jop. Also includes Burundi music way before it was fashionable to do things like this.

3. A band like Nazareth can do great covers of her material. Also her vocal lines are ideal fodder for bootlegs (as Fluke demonstrated years ago). Recontextualisation and all that.

4. She kept Jaco busy - hence fewer shitty Jazz Rock records were made.

(I'm joking about No.4 alex!)

Jeff W, Tuesday, 26 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
she uses capos well

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"blue" reminds me of summer camp. fond memories.

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Uber Classic! I have to second Jeff's points about the amazing angular guitar tones she got (cf. Blue) and the pazz and jop..
Lyrically she is much more than the fay hippie she's been portrayed as. She's got a great gift of observation re. people and relationships, which I guess puts her in the 'mature' category... Also, that kind of hippie outlook, she started out with, gave her a great perspective on the end of that dream during the 70s, as fantastically displayed on her classic trilogy: Court & Sparks, Hissing of Summer Lawns and Hejira

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 29 August 2003 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

While I find "Blue" slightly overrated, here excellent mid 70s output ("Court And Spark", "Hissing Of Summer Lawns", "Hejira") definitely makes her classic. No doubt about that.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

ok how big a bummer is it when Geir likes what u like

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

...and conversely how reassuring it is to find that Geir likes an artist you loathe

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

she uses capos well

and/or multiple alternate tunings, some of her own invention, i believe?

she's one of the greats, compositionally, subject-matter-wise and maybe persona-wise. and yes, arguably hot, if you like the personality. and probably harder than anyone who thinks she's "twee".

Both For the Roses and Court and Spark are arguably better than Blue. Her best singing (and guitar-playing?) may be on the otherwise middling though convenient pre-C&S-greatest-hits live Miles of Aisles

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

j0hn otm.

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Saskatchewan ROOLZ

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure why I never answered this the first time around. Joni's one of my all-time favorites. Just listened to Don Juan's Reckless Daughter the day before yesterday, The Hissing of Summer Lawns is also a great one. Her dour seriousness as of late is a bit of a pity, but what a huge talent.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I love Blue. I dunno ´bout her later stuff, though.

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb her tunings are often fairly conventional (open D and G are probably her most used non-standard tunings). she has a real grace with the open tunings (e.g., "you turn me on (i'm a radio)") that requires a level of skill fairly uncommon, maybe someone like malkmus, someone who can sing and (uppercase) PLAY pretty sophisticated lines simultaneously.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir Hongro has made me listen to Court and Spark again after I had mentally filed it away as something to sell or to give to my parents, and I'm glad. There's a version of 'Just Like This Train' on one of those KCRW compilations, which I like a lot. I'm trying to figure out why the arrangements on the album aren't as straightforward for me.

youn, Friday, 29 August 2003 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(but possibly her inventedness is maybe variations on D and G... hey! again kinda like malkmus!)

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, having Charles Mingus call you up and say here's some songs I wrote for you, why don't you put some lyrics to them is pretty classic.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

(but ultimately maybe more like richard thompson, burt jansch or even anne briggs)

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

the title track to "court and spark" was running through my head last night, despite not having heard it for years.

i wish i liked anne briggs more.

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

(i wish i knew who anne briggs or bert jansch were shocker)

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

they are some guitarists i got into in college shortly after i first heard the led zeppelin bbc session ("white summer/black mountain side") and how it was page's electric rip of several bert jansch songs. it turns out jansch learned the originals from friend/partner anne briggs... but primarily 60s british folk stuff, he was in pentangle and had a lengthy solo career, she stopped playing after a couple records.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

anne briggs was an english folk singer who started out singing unaccompanied traditional ballads for topic records. later she made a few singer-songwriter type records, with a traditional quality to them. she was very good-looking and had a reputation as a free spirit. she dated bert jansch, who is a v. famous english guitar player/songwriter/singer who wrote "needle of death" and was in pentangle. briggs was a pretty good guitar player too and a decent songwriter. i don't like her voice much on the ballads stuff, it's been claimed as unadorned but it sounds florid to me. the lp the time has come though is very pretty.

just noticed gygax's post. well, a 2nd opinion then.

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean she was good looking and a free spirit since every liner note written about her seems to mention those things. apologies.

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I find For The Roses quite frustrating. Some great stuff on there, but so much of it sounds so... awkward.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 30 August 2003 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

dated bert jansch, who is a v. famous english guitar player/songwriter/singer

That should read v. famous SCOTTISH guitar player etc., hope you never meet Bert on a dark night!

Dadaismus (Dada), Sunday, 31 August 2003 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

thx for the correction.

amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 31 August 2003 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe the amount of dissent; without doubt, classic.

christoff (christoff), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

Expanded 2CD remasters of "Court And Spark", "Hissing Of Summer Lawns" and "Hejira" were supposed to have been released by January this year. They are not yet in the shops half a year later.
Does anyone know what happened and when and if they are due?

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

she dumped them in the ocean, I heard.

sw00ds, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)

listened to Dog Eat Dog the other day hoping to find a dollar bin gem amidst the 80s production. unfortunately it sucked doggie dick

jaxon, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

hence the album title?

sw00ds, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

...lesbian dogs?!

t**t, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 20:34 (eighteen years ago)

I only know Blue but I love it. I started a little cult of Joni in secondary school when I traded my extra copy of Psychocandy with my friends extra copy of this. I think we both did well.

I know, right?, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

I still think the real gems are those mid 70s ones, when she used more instruments and adopted a more "floating" and sophisticated song style. Even if there may be a bit too much chorus guitar on "Hejira" at times.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 22:27 (eighteen years ago)

I agree... Hissing of Summer Lawns is my favourite Joni Mitchell record.

Keith, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

Court and Spark is my favorite because of the incredibly strong songwriting . I prefer it over Blue for sure. I'm shocked at the animosity up-thread.

humansuit, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 23:12 (eighteen years ago)

listened to Dog Eat Dog the other day hoping to find a dollar bin gem amidst the 80s production. unfortunately it sucked doggie dick

"Good Friends" is a good track and single!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 11 July 2007 23:16 (eighteen years ago)

"Night Ride Home" is an underpraised gem

J0hn D., Thursday, 12 July 2007 01:09 (eighteen years ago)

the album or song?

jaxon, Thursday, 12 July 2007 01:15 (eighteen years ago)

"Come In From The Cold" is my favorite Joni song of the last 20 years.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 12 July 2007 01:22 (eighteen years ago)

i really enjoy about 1/2 of Dog Eat Dog - 'Fiction', 'Good Friends', 'Impossible Dreamer' and the title track all work for me, esp. the first two.

it's odd to think of Night Ride Home as underappreciated - i always considered it one of, if not her very best, post-'70s albums.

derrrick, Friday, 13 July 2007 08:03 (eighteen years ago)

And nobody knows anything about the remasters?

I only have burned copies of those three, and I plan to buy them, but even though they often only a third of the price, I refuse to buy the old editions now that I know remasters are probably on their way anytime soon.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 13 July 2007 22:12 (eighteen years ago)

I think there's a thread somewhere on the reissues and someone in the know seemed to imply that the remasters were not gonna happen.

baaderonixx, Friday, 13 July 2007 22:21 (eighteen years ago)

The current bunch of Mitchell albums in the discount bins suggest otherwirse.

The remasters have been done - there were even press releases being released just a couple of weeks before the supposed release date in January. But they were postponed obviously.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 13 July 2007 22:24 (eighteen years ago)

To me the HDCD versions of these albums sounded excellent, with nice warmth and dynamics. The enticement of new versions would have to be either in exras (in which case what are they?) or in surround versions or advanced resolution. (I recall that there was a quad version of Hissing....)

SpinCDs.com say August 10, but these have been delayed before — originally they were to be released in February 2006 — so I wouldn't put much store by that date.

eatandoph, Saturday, 14 July 2007 02:21 (eighteen years ago)

I got most of Joni Mitchell's 70s output on vinyl for about $10 bucks out of dollar bins. My favorite album that she did is Coyote. She did other records that are kind of jazzy, but that is the best one. Her other records generally have a few songs that really catch with me. I like the two 70s live albums better than much of the studio records.

I always thought "Help Me" would have been a good song for late 80s Dinosaur Jr. to cover.

earlnash, Saturday, 14 July 2007 02:30 (eighteen years ago)

The HDCDs are of her earlier singer/songwriter output only. "Court And Spark", "Hissing Of Summer Lawns" and "Hejira" have never been released in HDCD.

Warner's CDs from the 80s sounded better than most other 80s CD, with better dynamics and more stereo separation (I guess that's why they have yet to do anything about the back catalogues by the likes of Prince or Phil Collins), but they still don't hold up today when compared to HDCD ones.

Geir Hongro, Saturday, 14 July 2007 22:54 (eighteen years ago)

I will say she is Classic for Blue alone.

I know, right?, Saturday, 14 July 2007 23:00 (eighteen years ago)

The HDCDs are of her earlier singer/songwriter output only. "Court And Spark", "Hissing Of Summer Lawns" and "Hejira" have never been released in HDCD.

I don't have an HDCD player so I can't absolutely verify, but my copies of Court and Spark through Mingus all say HDCD on the back and on the disc.

I spent some time in England and remember that for some reason you could find the HDCD versions of the early albums but not of the mid-late-seventies ones. Presumably this is still the case in the EU. The HDCD versions can be differentiated by the spines: instead of having big block print, the lettering is the same as that used on the back cover, and the artwork wraps around where applicable. I think the catalog numbers are the same.

eatandoph, Sunday, 15 July 2007 00:30 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

does "Song For Sharon" have the best chord progression ever or what?

aaron d.g., Sunday, 11 January 2009 08:04 (sixteen years ago)

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nothinbutcuts, Sunday, 11 January 2009 11:51 (sixteen years ago)

Last night we got into the Bowl *just* as the first song started and hilariously I didn't know it was her at first. I didn't know about the rotating stage, the lights were very low, she was singing very low, and suddenly everything lit up and omgomgomg. Most of section L seemed to be crying.

I love how her cane became a prop: sometimes a conductor's baton, other times a gearshift lever, and throughout "Both Sides, Now" - an ice axe she was using to climb an infinite mountain

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 21 October 2024 19:29 (nine months ago)

omigod Elvis that's fabulous

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 October 2024 19:30 (nine months ago)

He was sitting on stage, had a microphone like everyone else, and I honestly think he almost never opened his mouth

I did clearly hear him begin the chorus to "I'm Still Standing" but he realized that he was early, so he only got as far as "I'm..." before correcting himself

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 21 October 2024 19:33 (nine months ago)

Wonderful description of the cane Elvis

Elton wasn’t there on Saturday but she did sing “I’m Still Standing”

donna rouge, Monday, 21 October 2024 19:48 (nine months ago)

Yeah, great description!
Here's another report ("I'm still sitting.") Mentions live debut of song from Shine--is that a good album?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/oct/21/joni-mitchell-lets-rip-at-donald-trump-at-rarity-laden-us-concert

dow, Monday, 21 October 2024 20:40 (nine months ago)

I was so curious to hear how she did "I'm Still Standing," and it turns out she's done it before. This sounds better than the phone videos from this weekend's show (though the ones online are phone recordings of an amazing performance).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxqFJLm6Hp4

bratwurst autumn (Eazy), Tuesday, 22 October 2024 06:03 (nine months ago)

(This is from PBS coverage of the Gershwin Prize.)

bratwurst autumn (Eazy), Tuesday, 22 October 2024 06:05 (nine months ago)

My wife and I also went to the Sunday night Joni Jam show at the Hollywood Bowl. We were out in California for a wedding near San Diego on Saturday and drove up for the Sunday night show. Our seats were way up high but it was still a great night. I really liked new song “If I had a Heart ( I would cry)” where Joni’s was mostly just backed by piano. “Amelia” and “A Case of You” also stood out .

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 20:36 (nine months ago)

Carlile mentioned that Joni changed some of the words to the Elton John song when she was first asked to participate at the Gershwin Prize event and do one of his songs .

Years ago she changed a little of Rudyard Kipling “If” poem when she put it to song .

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 20:42 (nine months ago)

I hope at least one album, live and/or studio, comes out of this era---with new songs and new versions of early ones that were always demo-only, like "Eastern Rain."

dow, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 21:29 (nine months ago)

holy shit I never knew she wrote that, prob in my top 5 Fairport songs

go polish your nose ring (sleeve), Tuesday, 22 October 2024 21:33 (nine months ago)

Wouldn’t be surprised if we got a video release out of this, lots of camera ppl all over the stage

donna rouge, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 21:43 (nine months ago)

Of the guests who got to lead , Marcus Mumford didn’t wow me. Am thinking he was a Brandi Carlile choice. He at least dueted with Mitchell though. Lennox powered through “Ladies of the Canyon “ and Mitchell couldn’t be really heard on that . But Mitchell was lead on virtually everything, so I guess I shouldn’t complain

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 22:05 (nine months ago)

Chappell Roan and Lucy Dacus were singing along backstage

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/watch-joni-mitchell-elton-john-chappell-roan-lucy-dacus-brandi-carlile-more-sing-im-still-standing-together/

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 22:08 (nine months ago)

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/joni-mitchell/2024/hollywood-bowl-los-angeles-ca-2bab90c6.html

Amazing how many years it had been since she had done some of these songs live ( although she never toured a ton )

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 October 2024 22:12 (nine months ago)

Can I say...she doesn't sound good at all on "I'm Still Standing."

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 22 October 2024 22:17 (nine months ago)

Wouldn’t be surprised if we got a video release out of this, lots of camera ppl all over the stage


Compared to other bowl shows I’ve seen, the overall quality of the video feed was really high - it definitely felt like they were documenting this for a purpose well beyond helping those of us in the cheap seats see what was happening.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, 23 October 2024 01:06 (nine months ago)

I was at the Saturday show, and feel lucky to have been there.

Really nice posts, pgwp, captured the vibe of the show really nicely.

intheblanks, Wednesday, 23 October 2024 02:45 (nine months ago)

three months pass...

should i do a poll of mingus bc it's the most amazing record ever

ivy., Monday, 27 January 2025 15:07 (five months ago)

I just picked up Hejira and Mingus this weekend. I had never heard them bar a couple of songs and loved them both on first listen.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Monday, 27 January 2025 15:24 (five months ago)

Mingus is wild

TheNuNuNu, Monday, 27 January 2025 15:43 (five months ago)

"The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey" is wonderful.

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2025 15:59 (five months ago)

Mentioned this in the Eno thread, but in one of the versions of the Eno doc there's a Joni anecdote where Eno says he got so tired of being an ambient music ambassador, so tired of his name being a shorthand for ambient and (according to him) "wimpy" that he turned down a chance to work with her when she called him up and asked if he wanted to make an ambient album with her (whatever that might have meant). He calls it one of his greatest regrets.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2025 16:07 (five months ago)

For whatever reason, I learned every word of "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" when I was 13 and I still know it, every word, that cat's got luck, that cat's got luck

three sad trombones in a trench coat (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 27 January 2025 22:25 (five months ago)

It is strange but my childhood introduction to Joni Mitchell was the tapes my mom had purchased for the car: Mingus, Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm, Night Ride Home. See also: Absolute Torch And Twang and Tracy Chapman s/t. My mom was def a lesbian in another life or perhaps even this one

three sad trombones in a trench coat (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 27 January 2025 22:28 (five months ago)

come sit by me

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 January 2025 00:21 (five months ago)

good grief i can't even tabulate what my intro to joni was! i just _knew_ "help me." i'm serious: as far back as my memory goes, there's am radio and that song. curious child that i was, i must have asked as soon as i figured out how, "who is this singer?" because by the time "got til it's gone" came out, i appreciated the shoutout as much as a 13 year old at the time could.

(my neurodivergence was also quite happy to have the prior knowledge of THIS BEAT = THAT SINGER! before the shoutout even hit)

i must say: that's a remarkable joni starter pack, fgti.

my first album was court+spark, of course

MUFFY TEPPERMAN WAS THE OG KAREN (Austin), Tuesday, 28 January 2025 01:23 (five months ago)


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