Are all non-classic Rolling Stones records underrated?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (48 of them)
it may be tossed off but it sounds meatier than the anemic-sounding "black and blue," for example.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

i heart mr. diamond for not succumbing to knee-jerk latterday stones hate.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

I just really think, you know, they reached a real low on Dirty Work, personally and professionally, then went and got their solo albums out of their system. They kind of realized that while they turned a neat trick with their disco assimilation, they had no chance of keeping up with every arc of a rapidly mutating pop landscape ("Undercover" and "Too Much Blood" were great singles, but the treacly synth textures tried out on Dirty Work - see tracks like "Back to Zero" and "Winning Ugly" - were horrid).

So they kind of retrenched, Mick and Keith apparently had a kind of rapprochement, and they got down to putting more effort into the songs, and attempted to use a little imagination in the arrangements. It may have ended up giving Steel Wheels a more "adult" patina or something - I'll grant you that while not giving a shit. It makes for a more sonically rich and rewarding record. And as long as Charlie's playing drums the records will retain some bite. And like I said, Ron's been working on his playing (his slide playing on "The Worst" is just beautiful).

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 21:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Stones have good tunes scattered over the past thirty years but the albums are inconsequential as a whole.

"Some Girls" is pretty weak, too, I never understood why it was called a classic. The terrible production ruins it for me. "Tattoo You" seems lazy, I'll agree with that assessment. Though "Waiting On a Friend" is a classic.

I have "It's Only Rock and Roll" and "Voodoo Lounge", those are my favorites from this era.

I wonder...if the Stones had debuted in '73, never having released anything pre-"Goat's Head Soup", how would they be regarded? I think as a reasonably competent rock band, but nothing special overall. And probably playing festivals with Savoy Brown or something...

ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 21:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like the end of "Hot Stuff," when Mick sorta goes off doing his frontman thing.

All you people in New York Cityah! I know you're all goin' broke! Yah HOTTT.

Sean (Sean), Thursday, 21 August 2003 00:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

their 1st album's pretty great for a album of nearly all cover songs...2nd one & out of our heads aren't so hot but they got good stuff too...i'm talking about the UK form of these records, the american 2nd & 3rd albums are better tho cause they leave some album songs off & put on singles (all good) & b-sides (nearly all good)...
hey mr diamond i luv side 2 of "tattoo you"! not side 1 except "slave" tho. "slave" is ace! sonny rollins! after that i dunno, never listened...will some day. also i heard them live 1x (mid 90s?), i didn't go to the show but me & saskia were walkin round grey lynn & we thought someone was playing rolling stones records really loud at a party nearby but after about 5 songs we realised, hey that's the actual real rolling stones! they're playing 2 western springs! far out, they sounded slick as shit, "just like the record" i.e. nuthin like any rolling stones live record i ever heard. i'm glad i didn't go tho, i hate rock concerts.

duane, Thursday, 21 August 2003 00:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

"they're playing 2 western springs" = "they're playing @ western springs" sorry

duane, Thursday, 21 August 2003 00:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

RE: Tatoo You
I'm definitely partial to the second side. i love Mick's plaintive (if somewhat uncharacteristic) falsetto on "Worried..." and then his return to normal Mick- voice right at the chorus "oooh baaybay!!!"... ahhh, one of my favorite moments on record. Features some of the Stones most mannered playing. Got to see them do this one live on the '99 tour. "Tops" - while the lyrics are terribly cliche- scores w/ the double tracked harmonies (killer falsetto, again). It's fucking great soul music....
"Heaven"- ephemeral percussion, shimmering guitars... "No Use In Crying" treads that glorious, amorphous territory 'twixt R&B and Country... "Waiting on A Friend"-- needs no qualifier.
One of my favorite album sides ever... Put this baby on the next time you and your special lady (or man) friend are doing some heavy petting. You'll thank me.

Side one took a longer to grow on me. I'll agree w/ the "lazy, tossed off" charge but that's kind of what i dig about it. I've got these "Paris outtakes" from the SomeGirls/ Emotional Rescue era full of great songs (sketches, really). I've always lamented the fact that none benefitted from proper studio treatment . I guess some of TY reminds me of those ("Slave" comes to mind), except fully realized.

My primary misgivings with the Stones post- Tatoo You* are production-related. It just doesn't sound good, in my infinitely humble opinion. Did they have weak tunes prior to 1980? Sure. But the irksome production (Im thinking more Dirty Work, Bridges to Babylon than Voodoo Lounge here) of their more recent works only exacerbates their weaknesses.

*I'll reserve judgement on Undercover, as I've only heard "She Was Hot" and the title track...


Now. Somebody show some love for Some Girls . Best pool hall juke box record ever...

Will (will), Thursday, 21 August 2003 02:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'll show some love for "Some Girls"... great album that one... who could resist "Faraway Eyes"?

"Emotional Rescue", "Black and Blue", "Undercover", "Tattoo You", "Dirty Work" etc are not without the odd gem... but they are few and far between. And looking for them can be hard work...

As a long-time Stones fan I've always been rather partial to "Mixed Emotions" from "Steel Wheels". One of the best late-era Stones songs.

steve, Thursday, 21 August 2003 03:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

I started with 80's music & wasn't a stones fan until recently. Now I loooove them. Actually not the albums so much as the great songs on them. I've heard maybe 10 or 12 of their albums & not a one doesn't seem to have a lot of filler. So I listen to my 90 min. mix tape over and over instead. Anyways, Of the albums I've heard, this may surprise some, but Undercover is my favorite! Especially "Undercover" "Too Much Blood" and "She was hot." What really gets me into those songs isn't that they're as lyrically & compositionally brilliant as some of the earlier classics- maybe they are, don't ask me about that- it's just the production and the snarly energy it seems to add. See I love 80's synthetic/electronic production & those songs have all the hard dubby-type sound. That, and the slasher film type lyrics are some of the trashiest of anything they've done. Love it. The glammier the better. So I also have to mention that Emotional Rescue is my favorite individual song of theirs next to Gimme Shelter. I also second the dislike for Tattoo You and Some girls- a couple great songs, boring albums.

sucka (sucka), Thursday, 21 August 2003 03:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

ok, thanks Will. You've made me want to reconsider my opinion on the second side of Tattoo. I just honestly never feel inspired to play it, but I'll give it another close listen.

steve - "Faraway Eyes" was one of the songs I was thinking of in disparaging Some Girls! Really, though I was just being "provocative". Something about the thread just bummed me out, because no one had really mentioned the 90s stuff and everyone had just accepted the thread's premise that Some Girls and Tattoo You were just obviously classic. Who decided that? Anthony DeCurtis or something? What happened to examining received rock-crit norms? Those two records house their biggest post-Exile hits, sure! But do they really hold up as albums you want to throw on and enjoy all the way through? Anyway, I tried to throw out a couple thoughts to add to thread, only to be followed up with a dismissive "they aren't worth discussing." I apologize for snapping at Roger, but I honestly wonder if he's examining his own opinions at times.

Of course I don't think Some Girls "sucks", but it is true that I never play it. I suppose that could be partially due to overexposure, sure. Still, "Miss You" and "Shattered" were fresh and inspired and still sound great to me. "Beast of Burden" I've never liked though. Ever. I just don't like Mick's vocal or the lyrics, and christ it seems like it goes on forever. "Just My Imagination" is an ok performance but it's yet another Motown cover so that's lazy. Even taken as a rocker, "Some Girls" just plods and needless to say sounds embarassing today. When the Stones did "Dear Doctor" and "Country Honk" they sounded lively and novel; "Dead Flowers" and "Torn and Frayed" were poignant and affecting; but "Far Away Eyes" just sounds pointless and parodic.

I don't know. It's still a great record - "When the Whip Comes Down" KILLS - I just never feel like listening to it.

Props to sucka! You and I seem on the same wavelenght w/r/t these guys. Though I usually avoid Undercover for most of the reasons you like it. But that's cool man - you know why you like it! Good on ya. I often just find the record suffocating, but I occasionally find it enjoyable to bathe in all that bile, to get into the vicious headspace of that record... And yeah, "Emotional Rescue" is one of my all time favorite songs of theirs as well.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 21 August 2003 06:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

dude 'faraway eyes' is better than 'country honk'! 'country honk' is i'd go so far as to say FUCKIN TOTALLY WACK.

duane (24 hour troubleshooter), Thursday, 21 August 2003 06:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

i think "country honk" is more fun than "honky tonk women," but i'm just weird like that.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 21 August 2003 06:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Duane, it's like Dave Mason said, there's you and me and we just disagree.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 21 August 2003 06:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

(but I will listen to side two of Tattoo You with you in mind, you big softie)

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 21 August 2003 06:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Diamond - no apology necessary, i'm aware that i usually weigh in with a "i like this" or "i don't like that' without qualifying. Truth is, I spend most of my day reviewing records, and i'm usually pretty drained during these 'ilm breaks.' That said, I enjoy a good rapport when one opens up, but everyone here has already said a lot of what I would have.


Plus, The Stones are not the kinda band I get white-knuckled about either way, and if the imminent carpal tunnel syndrome can be held off a bit by me not replying frivolously to every debate, so be it.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 21 August 2003 09:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

twenty years pass...

Part of the reason I like Black and Blue so much is it sounds as clear as glass. For something taped almost 50 years ago it's extra impressive - I feel it should be some sort of yardstick for analogue recording idk.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 23 April 2024 16:43 (six months ago) link

I agree. Kudos to that mix. Charlie and those guitarists sound great!

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 April 2024 16:46 (six months ago) link

It also really helps in why I think Cherry Oh Baby works, in its admittedly obtuse way. Charlie has clear problems relaxing for a reggae beat but if that's the case you might as well heighten this contrast until (hopefully) the effect becomes something else. Every beat of the drum, slide of the cymbal, sounds so sharp-edged that it suits the stiffness well, and pronounces the sudden silences and rhythmic dropouts even further. Mechanical reggae years before On-U Sound !

you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 23 April 2024 16:47 (six months ago) link

God, "Hand of Fate" is a sexy-ass song.

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 April 2024 16:51 (six months ago) link

haha that G Marcus quote upthread is amazing

I painted my teeth (sleeve), Tuesday, 23 April 2024 16:51 (six months ago) link

Part of the reason I like Black and Blue so much is it sounds as clear as glass. For something taped almost 50 years ago it's extra impressive - I feel it should be some sort of yardstick for analogue recording idk.

as someone born the year this record came out, this post briefly hurt me to my core to be reminded of the number of years that has passed.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 April 2024 16:56 (six months ago) link

I recently realised I unconsciously take about ten years off everything whose distance in time feels wrong. Because 38 years makes more sense than 48.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 23 April 2024 17:01 (six months ago) link

Pretty sure “Black and Blue” is my most listened to Stones album at this point. It’s kind of the perfect barbecue in backyard background music. “Hand of Fate” is upper echelon material.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Tuesday, 23 April 2024 17:58 (six months ago) link

Just spun it thinking of it as chill BBQ/Khruangbin/Mdou Moctor grooves, and yeah! I'd forgotten that it's annoying that there's no track list on the jacket or sleeve, only on the label. But that underscore that they're not crafting songs so much as vibes.

sox concrète (bendy), Tuesday, 30 April 2024 19:33 (six months ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.