― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
The question of sincerity comes in in that it ends the performances an air of smarminess, which really isn't appealing in these cases. Dom posted while I was posted--quite honestly, I don't think most of the covers in question were done well. Admittedly I didn't hear Beck's one that I singled out, but Beck makes me want to break things.
Dude, this is a whole new thread, what pop/rap acts should cover what indie songs. That could turn particularly ridiculous.
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
― s woods, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bham, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
But Alex (and maybe because it's "80s" you forgive it), on some other thread once you said you liked Lords of the New Church's Madonna cover! (Which to me just oozes smarm and grossness and sounded completely OBVIOUS even back then.)
― s woods, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― s woods, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
The thing is, it's really difficult to make fun of something that is so much better than you, and that's what I think these acts are doing. The songs in question are so superior to the recent singles by these artists that it just isn't even funny.
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
Yeah, but my point is that such stunts are NOW DATED! I loved the Lords' cover, but y'know.....that was eons ago. I also liked the Wedding Present's cover of Tom Jones' "It's Not Unusual," but also....ancient!
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
pop, but i just googled her and her website is called 'sophie b hawkins underground' so i dunno! but yeah, 'damn i wish i was yr lover' was a hit, and a great song
― minna (minna), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
Also, I'm not so sure that a lot of the great early Stones' covers of r&b and blues tracks are completely smarm-free. Some of them seem exaggerated almost to the point of parody--"Down Home Girl," especially. But for whatever reasons, most of them still work.
― s woods, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
Straight to the point - I'm with you Ally!
Just as a side issue, great indie covers that I love are Dinosaur Jr's Cover of The Cure's Just Like Heaven and Snuff's version of I Think We're Alone Now. Put them against Travis, Coldplay, Beck... there's no comparison - and before anyone says it, I know both were ironic and that Snuff were pretty dreadful, but they were an amazing covers band...
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― minna (minna), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
Mind you, Johnny Cash covering "Hurt" or Depeche Mode or whatever pop that Rick Rubin can convince him to play is some interesting, but if someone covers Nelly, then they must be pandering.
Never mind that The Big Boys played Kool in the Gang, Urge Overkill did a Hot Chocolate cover, fIREHOSE covered Public Enemy, and Sonic Youth even did an entire record as an oddball tribute to Madonna, those must just be pandering.
It is not like the pop artists need credibility to sell records when they can just take off more clothes or do a soda ad or shoot someone.
It is only a song.
― earlnash, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
No, I definitely agree, it's just that the examples in question are not examples of such a phenomenon. The Jolene cover is good, I reckon.
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
that was pandering smarm which sonic youth are very good at, even tho I like 'em...
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
Covering a pop song 'ironically' (if/when that's whats happening) is a cop-out, a safe way of admitting to yourself and your fans that the song has had an impact on you but then neutering that impact instead of exploring it. Travis doing BOMT is saying "Hey beneath the pop veneer is a proper song" but their version done Travis-style then HAS to be leaden because otherwise it'd risk sounding better than Travis own songs, and part of the point is (maybe?) to prove that Travis' craftsmanship is better than Max Martin's.
It ties in with the question on that huge long thread Simon Reynolds' site linked to, about 'indie' not wanting to draw on 'black' music anymore. Cos the real question behind both of these is - how do you operate in a 50-year tradition where the music you make is very unlikely to be as good (in YOUR opinion, the audience likes it just fine) as the music you like? (Sampling is one answer) Converting pop songs into second-rate B sides is a way of positioning yourself on the heirarchy - if these pop songs were REALLY any good they'd shine through our versioning, right?
How much does our getting annoyed with covers of pop depend on our experiencing the originals as pop? If Coldplay covered the Crystals I wouldn't give half as much a fuck as if they covered B*Witched.
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
At the risk of jumping to the other side, I have to say I really agree with this. It reminds me a little of working in a record store in the late '80s and being disgusted when some "punks" (I think that's what they were called back then) came in the store and started mockingly dancing around to the Michael Jackson we were playing in the store. But (later on) I considered the possibility that they were actually tapping into something that maybe they subconsciously really ENJOYED but would never admit to. Well, it was a theory, sort of.
― s woods, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
Haha, that's not risking jumping, that is jumping! Anyway yr theory is OTM. There's no such thing as liking things ironically, I reckon. It's just a safe way to like things without getting made fun of by your friends.
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
At best it's pandering. Though I'm sure there are some worthy exceptions.
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris V. (Chris V), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
There is an ironic way to say you like things though. Another subject, but you only need to look at the way dancehall has become "fashionable" in trendy, ironic London circles - this really ticks me off as I genuinely love it and always have done... these tossers essentially denegrating it is little short of infuriating
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
I actually think this is a core point. The whole 'snarf, ha ha, look at us' attitude is indeed crap, but essentially there's a weird no win scenario posited in all this:
INDIE PERSON: "I like this, that and the other popwise."OTHER PERSON: "You're only doing that to follow trends/seem hip/to make fun of it."INDIE PERSON: "No I'm not! Jeez! Here." *plays version of song*OTHER PERSON: "That was shit and why did you bother?"INDIE PERSON: "Fine, fuck you."
But you could expand this out if you like. Personally I think it's illustrative not of the power of songs or performers or whatever but ARRANGEMENTS. Which may seem strange, but consider -- I think there's a lot of (justifiable) fear and loathing over the idea of reducing a song down to a guitar jangle, ripping out whatever it is sonically that really captivates. Lingering fears of rockism, if you like, the whole 'argh, it's only validated because you can do a folk singalong to it? that attitude is crap!' And who can blame people for feeling that way?
Britney is cynical and transient AND hooky and thrilling.
See, it's funny you say that because I'm still amazed so many people have covered "Baby One More Time" when I think it's incredibly unmemorable and dull. "Oops I Did It Again" is the song that works, and as Kate St. Claire said once, it's all because of the bassline. And interestingly Fuck have in fact covered it.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
As for Tha Irony: Beck is a big, big fan of contemporary R&B, I'd say it's pretty silly to just assume his "Cry Me A River" is ironic, especially considering he's been in such a boringly earnest mode lately, *and* "Cry Me A River" fits in with the songs on Sea Change thematically. Flaming Lips and Fran Healy of Travis have both been very public about their genuine admiration of "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" and "Baby One More Time". So that's that settled then (unless they have IRONY GUILT!)
Apart from that I can't comment because I've never heard any of these versions, except Travis' Britney cover which I remember quite liking at the time (mainly because I've never liked Britney's voice much.)
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
Yeah, I was about to say that whole assertion seemed strange. Too bad the song itself bites, but that's another matter. ;-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
POPISTS!
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
-- stevem"
Yes, yes it was.
― Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 04:07 (twenty years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 11:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Jole, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 11:46 (twenty years ago) link
B-but "Baby One More Time" is all about the arrangement....and the melody....and the beat....and the production....and the performance. Oh fuck it, it was perfect and Travis shouldn't have gone near it with their shit stick.
― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:11 (twenty years ago) link
My point: when a country voice sings gangsta-rap lyrics, you realize that the two worlds and attitudes aren't too far apart. That's just truth, without irony. By the way, mega-pop artists should start cherrypicking through the crates of great punk compositions. Just imagine:
Britney Spears covering Bad Brain's "i against i".Usher singing "Swallow My Pride" by the Ramones.Gwen Stefani doing "Straight to Hell" by The Clash.
Alright. I'm dreaming again.
― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link
The Gourds.
Britney Spears covering Bad Brain's "i against i".
Even after her yawnsome take on "Satisfaction"?
― j.lu (j.lu), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rufus 3000 (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 18 January 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link
What a twist!
― MRZBW (MRZBW), Friday, 19 January 2007 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link
bonnie prince billy's live vers. of "ignition" by r. kelly was pretty great.
― M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 19 January 2007 00:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jeff Reguil0n (Talent Explosion), Friday, 19 January 2007 00:34 (seventeen years ago) link
had NPR on while taking a shower the other week and this came on. as he started to introduce it i was like "is he really going to?" which turned into "dude, no, i know this is coming from a genuine place but you can still turn back..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ATOTj2xVM
it's definitely worse with video.
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 February 2016 21:40 (eight years ago) link
this is prob about as bad as pop culture gets
― japanese mage (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 16 February 2016 23:46 (eight years ago) link
holy shit
― crüt, Tuesday, 16 February 2016 23:53 (eight years ago) link
omg
― dc, Wednesday, 17 February 2016 02:08 (eight years ago) link
The video you posted is private, so I can't see it... What is it?
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:11 (eight years ago) link
yeah i can't see it either..
― posted with permission by (dog latin), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:15 (eight years ago) link
Make that three of us.
― Soon Kenny Loggins will look like this (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:21 (eight years ago) link
it's Chris Thile covering Kendrick Lamar's "Alright" on mandolin, substituting "brother" for the n-word. it is the most cringeworthy thing imaginable.
― crüt, Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:33 (eight years ago) link
oh god I actually like Thile / Punch Brothers in general but there's no way in hell I'm listening to that
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:38 (eight years ago) link
dang, it was public yesterday. maybe they read ilx. here's audio.
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:44 (eight years ago) link
not any more, this cover-up goes deeper than we thought
― Chikan wa akan de. Zettai akan de. (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:58 (eight years ago) link
Not listening to this, let alone watching it.
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 14:03 (eight years ago) link
haha. how about this? http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/listen/?date=2016/02/06&identifier=apm_audio:/phc/segments/2016/02/06/phc_segment_12_20160206_128.mp3
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 14:27 (eight years ago) link
Had press tix and saw Chris Thile host and play his Live from Here radio show yesterday. He named off folks having birthdays this week and covered their songs with a big band . Sarah Jarosz sang & he played mandolin on Labelle “ Lady Marmalade,” and Dylan “Twist of Fate.” They also did Miles Davis “So What.” Non-birthday cover of Vampire Weekend
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 May 2018 21:18 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHNeDwp77g
Dud
― flappy bird, Sunday, 27 May 2018 22:27 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0zbAQbl2o
Dethroned Halloween, Alaska's "I Can't Live Without My Radio" for favorite track in this theme.
The "Jesus, take the wheel" line is such a mournful hook that's an aside in the original Thundercat track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8TdgBWEOP8
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Monday, 29 April 2024 21:53 (four months ago) link