King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.

I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.

Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so

the story just got weirder from there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILSVAUjd5QI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Fripp speaks

excellent...wish it was longer

2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.

'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.
― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO.

its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.

So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/lk/l/w/dd360157ea8e506661983ea7336800bc/4330188.gif

classic:

'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaz8xfFjuE

Guess Fripperlips is done for good?

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/king-crimson-robert-fripp-quits-music-business/

Hope he enjoys retirement!

He's been retired for a while, I believe. Couple of years? Also, for what it's worth, he was semi-retired for pretty much the second half of the '70s, too.

Yeah, this is not new news.

Wait, hold up:

A multi-disc deluxe edition of the 1973 Crimson classic ‘Larks’ Tongues in Aspic’ is set for release in October and will include 13 CD’s, a DVD and a Blu-Ray disc.

13 CDs!?!?!

Disc details at the bottom of this page: http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm

So basically a bunch of live discs previously sold through the site. That's cool though. Band in the Muir era was neat.

Wasn't aware Kanye had sampled "Schizoid Man," which Fripp seems pissed he didn't get paid for. Wonder if he ever paid any royalties for quoting "Surrey With The Fringe On Top" in "Moonchild?"

I figured Fripp was done, but this is the first time I ever heard him say it (I know he said he wasn't going to tour anymore some 4-5 years ago), maybe I'm just not paying attention

Fripp got paid for Schizoid sample, but iirc only after going straight to Kanye and the two of them presenting a united front to the label. He was very careful never to criticize West, even though he could have for not clearing the sample ahead of time.

fripp did an album with mel collins and jakko jakwhatsit last year, so he hasn't been retired for 4 years. it was a bit disappointing, definitely not the new lease on KC I think they were hoping for.

Well it certainly wasnt the new lease on KC I was hoping for.

If the '72-74 lineup reunited I would buy a ticket in about 5 seconds flat. Anything beyond that, I don't really care.

Pretty sure Cross & Wetton are the only ones game for that.

I'd be up for another outing of any other combination that the last 2 though (the Jakko one or previous I mean).

Fripp has such a narrow comfort range anymore that I wouldn't see him live unless he personally invited me into his living room to hear him play. I don't need the grief while he tries to figure out whether he can midwife any music.

Mentioned it before, but the last King Crimson tour I saw - Levin, Belew, Fripp, Mastelotto and the drummer from Porcupine Tree - really was awesome. There was a Fripp-less Crimson that toured with Dream Theater a couple of months ago. Believe it was basically Belew and his all-kid band, plus Levin and Mastelotto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wpTOxb1nFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJ_IC8OZMo&feature=relmfu

Looks like every one in a while on tour the drummer from Tool sat in for a few songs as second (third?) drummer.

Why have Belew, Lake, Levin, Gunn, Wetton & Mastelotto never toured together? All of them seem quite happy to tour Crim material sans Fripp.

Straightforward q: what do you guys reckon the best live version of 'Fracture'? I remembered the Asbury Park one killing it, but I just listened to it and was kinda not feeling it so much. Haven't dug out the live box in a while.

The Central Park show the from the folloeing day is to my mind the best, followed by the one of the 2 versions on the Great Deceiver, can't remember which one.

Thx

Central Park = one of the KCCC releases?

i would totally go see any lineup, even without fripp, again. missed the belew/levin retrospective lineup thing last time it went though. I would have loved to have seen 21st century schizoid band also (who jakko was in). I think jakko was the wrong person for fripp to bring in for that last release, he's too much of a follower; he's fine, but not distinctive in any way.

I dunno, any approximation of KC without Fripp seems kind of missing the point. I did see 21st Century Schizoid Band and I thought it was fairly pedestrian

I have a hard time believing Fripp is truly retired.

Retired and working harder than ever. He reminds me of a border collie patiently working the livestock (UMG, Sanctuary, etc) into a corral to be taken to slaughter.

Considering Fripp often lead guitar schools and workshops over the past few decades whose main point appeared to have been indoctrinating students in his precise methods and reshaping them in his (musical) image, it's actually really easy to imagine Crimson without him. Send in the clones!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_in_Central_Park,_NYC
xpost to Jon Lewis

yes but according to him they are all hopeless!

xp

League of Hopeless Guitarists

Anyway, Belew has really been the dominent component over the past three decades. Fripp is awesome, but other dudes are more than capable of doing what he's been doing.

Anyone ever see any of the ProjeKCts? I saw one configuration that was Fripp on guitar (sounding like a marimba), Trey Gunn on bass, and Belew on drums (the entire night!). It kind of sucked, but it was neat to see something different.

Never saw them, but I have the 4CD ProjeKcts box set and I have to say it's given me more listening pleasure than any KC album post-Red.

I'll be on the lookout for that - the whole ConstruKction of Light era is my personal KC nadir so I try to avoid that, though I admit the live recordings of this period are surprisingly good. The improv on Heavy ConstruKction (the three disc set that ends with Fripp snatching and eating some dude's camera) is the best since the Great Deceiver (or better), I'd say

Fripp clarified on FB that this isn't AI, it's by Ben Singleton who has done a lot of stuff for KC. It is digital though. He didn't comment on it being ugly.

Awkward way to insult an artist. "You fuckers, you're using AI!" "No, Ben made that himself." "Oh....."

(like it's so ugly it looks like AI...ah, needed to rewrite that)

Fripp also says he doesn't like it

"Scott Dakota: Absolute most effective way for Robert Fripp to destroy his sales income and lifetime built respect is to use gen AI clanker slop artwork that destroys the ecosystem and thieves from human artists, and is guaranteed to produce visceral revulsion from a large number of creative people who'd previously been fans.
That is, if you were going for career and reputation suicide.

RF: Mr. Dakota assumes that the artwork is AI generated. In this he is mistaken. The artist is Ben Singleton, who has provided artwork for the last incarnation of King Crimson. My career and reputation have been under attack from various commentators since 1969, so it's likely I won't notice much of a shift.

Seth Katz: All analog or was there a digital stage?

RF: Ben, as with many contemporary artists / designers, works digitally. DGM had a hard January deadline to meet the Record Store Day annoucement, and Ben worked at speed over Christmas to meet this (for which gratitude). Ben created three other portraits - of Daniel Dust, The Wilton Carpet and Beldon Stratford.

Dino Orlando: Don't like the cover. Nothing against Mr. Fripp of course.

RF: No offence taken. I don't like it either: I don't like personal portraits.

Nick Simms: Was hyped when I first saw this on the list, but once I saw the AI slop cover… not gonna be rushing to grab this one.

Maxine McKenzie: Ditch the a.i 'cover' disneyfuckation of Uncle Bobby!

RF: Please refer to my above response to Mr. Dakota.

Yes Fanzine: RF, say it ain't so! Please tell us this isn't an AI-generated cover, as it sure looks like it!

RF: It ain't so.

Kevin Gamble: If it isn't AI, it would be good to know, as it looks a lot like AI style. And many of us have ethical concerns about AI.

RF: Now Mr. Gamble knows, and it's good. For those interested in our views of the pillars of ethical business, please consult the posted DGM principles of ethical practice. For those not sufficiently concerned about ethcial practice to do some searching, please see my next post.

Sean Sky: nice pic, before you started wearing that stupid tie.

RF: I engage with goodwill. But I am not sure which of my stupid ties Mr. Sky refers to. My tie yesterday was of a white unicorn and white rabbit, gambolling happily on an orange background. Surely, nothing stupid about white unicorns and white rabbits happily engaging in a playful social discourse?

Same story as the elephant Beat graphic. Fans were all, what is this AI slop? But someone determined that an actual artist was behind it (though jury is out as to whether or not there was still an AI assist), and also Belew is on record as being a fan of the 'phant. Granted, I would not expect anyone that dresses in day-glo and plays a Parker Fly to have particularly good taste in visuals. Fortunately, music is primarily audible.

I'm tired of everybody playing internet cop on AI art. Like I'm not talking about about ILX but there are a bunch of amateur AI detectors who have harassed legit artists who weren't using AI or asking them in a sense to prove they drew it.

One can be against generative AI abd acknowledge that turning loose the amateur masses to make public accusations is maybe a bad idea. Burden of proof should be on the accuser

Someone actually tried to suggest the video of ICE trying to enter the Ecuadorian embassy was AI slop lol

I dunno, it's kind of like the self-policing side to Bluesky. It's insufferable, but I get it. I think the argument being made is that AI only succeeds if people use it, so for some, anyone that uses it is in a sense in league with it. And the reason (not that you don't know this) people don't want it to succeed is that the population's grasp of reality is tenuous at best (hence all the suspicion), let alone recognition of the value of and work behind art, so why encourage it? And then it becomes particularly onerous when someone associated with artistic integrity (like Fripp) in turn associates or is associated themselves with something literally designed to undermine artistic integrity.

This stuff, though, it's almost a shorthand by-product. "Looks like AI" basically means "looks bad." The irony of course being that eventually AI will get good enough to look/sound/whatever good, which will lead (some) people to (per your example) accuse good or real stuff of being AI, which will be the most AI of inevitable AI outcomes. Can only imagine someone accusing Fripp or Belew or whomever of *sounding like* AI, but that is probably coming, too.

I'm pretty sure that artist that did the Beat cover did use AI on that, I'd looked at his instagram at the time and he was forthright about experimenting with AI. I don't really expect Belew to have investigated stuff like that enough, also I'm not sure he necessarily cares.

Other KC offshots like Tuner with Markus Reuter, Pat Mastelleto and Trey Gunn absolutely use AI for both album graphics as well as these little videos they made. Dunno. They were certainly weird and interesting little videos so at least there was some creativity involved in the output. I imagine Tuner etc are basically self-funded musical exercises and I don't think any of those guys are rolling in money so I kind of get it, though it's a bit disappointing.

Xpost the average person is shit at detecting it though. The obvious "7 finger" examples are one thing, but AI was trained on a variety of art styles, so some of the people who are making art in popular styles get accused because their art looks similar to the engines that ripped it off.

Someone here publicly quit working with a theater company i work with because they claim the artist used AI on a poster. This person couldn't prove it, or have any evidence other than "it looks wonky". Ok...their choice.

In any case this cover art sucks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzv_mj8Lh_g

― Maresn3st, Friday, 6 February 2026

Some excellent remarks on Jamie Muir, who died last year.

I posted this in the RIP thread (the interviewer just passed), but it's a new to me conversation between Fripp and ... Joe Strummer!

https://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Interview_with_Robert_Fripp_and_Joe_Strummer_in_Musician

I'm tired of everybody playing internet cop on AI art. Like I'm not talking about about ILX but there are a bunch of amateur AI detectors who have harassed legit artists who weren't using AI or asking them in a sense to prove they drew it.

I mean "this looks shopped I can tell from some of the pixels and from having seen quite a few shops in my time" was a meme well over a decade ago, this is just the nature of the internet. on my side of the street I'm fully paranoid about AI, I have to ask throughout any process working with an artist "we're clear, no generative AI right?"