The Associates: Have the years been kind?

I think there are some other revisions to the text but not major ones.

The bit at the end about the songs only now found in dusty second hand shops can now be thankfully updated, at least.

I still vividly remember the fist time I heard "White Car in Germany" in college. I'd checked out the LP from my college radio station's library, and I was listening on headphones in my dingy dorm room since my roommate was sleeping. It was definitely due to them being talked about on ILM, too. Those first few totally alien synth sludgenotes, that cough syrup tempo ("is this the wrong speed?"), the way it kind of zombily jerks into that stately melody, and then Mackenzie's unreal voice rising up out of it. It was a complete and total shock to the system, and unlike anything I'd ever encountered. Still gives me chills to think of that initial experience...

That's great that The Glamour Chase is being reissued, it's such a great read that totally made me fall in love with their music and Billy as a person.

Please forgive this long-winded post but Billy is my favourite singer ever and one of the few artists I get really carried away about.

I would say The Affectionate Punch, Sulk and Fourth Drawer Down are the absolute essentials. After that things get a little more tricky as there are plenty of amazing songs spread out over some really average albums.

Perhaps is mostly great, it's very polished and a lot more straight forward than the first three albums. Helicopter Helicopter and Schampout are the first songs he did that are just really bad. The second side is a lot stronger as it has Breakfast which is an incredible ballad with one of his best vocals. The Stranger In Your Voice has one of the best and most ridiculous string arrangements in a song I can think of. The Best of You might be my favourite track, would love to hear the version they did with Annie Lennox.

The Glamour Chase is mainly bland late 80's pop but it does contain Empires of the Heart which sounds like it should have been a Bond theme. The reissue with Perhaps on the other disc is worth having for some of the extra tracks, mainly Take Me To The Girl and The Rythm Divine which he did with Yello.

Wild & Lonely is his worst album, terrible production ruins some fairly good songs especially on Just Can't Say Goodbye, Fire to Ice and the title track. Some of the songs are just so half-baked, good production couldn't help them.

Outernational from 92 is a lot better but hardly essential. It was released as his first solo album but is really just the same as the previous three albums, Billy working with various session musicians. He was really obsessed with the dance music at the time so he tried to make an album in that style but of course the best song is the ballad, Baby. His vocal on that song is really stunning, it should have been a huge hit.

Beyond The Sun is an album of songs he had been working on in the last years of his life. This is easily his best album after the first three Associates albums. He was mainly into dance music again at this point but this is mainly full of beautiful ballads especially Nocturne VII which is a heartbreaking song. Give Me Time is yet another song that would have made a great Bond theme. Three Gypsies In a Restaurant is the only dud on the album, sadly that was the stuff Billy was into making at that time but he was never one to go for the safe choices with his material.

Eurocentric is another posthumous release. It's a good collection, a mix of dance songs and some more really moving ballads. The ballads are much more enjoyable. His version of Wild is the Wind is the highlight, but Liberty Lounge is a great 70's glam influenced gem.

The Radio One Sessions albums are both excellent. Party Fears 2 is my favourite song ever but the track A Severe Bout Of Career Insecurity is probably the song that sums up everything that was amazing about Billy as a performer. It sounds like he made the lyrics up as he went along and the way he says, "And It Goes To Show All You Want Is Above The Knee" is just Godlike. A lot of the other versions on here are really great to hear, the slow version of Take Me To The Girl in particular is very charming.

The Double Hipness coompilation is such an interesting mix of their material. The early demos are so odd and full of sax and bizarre lyrics. I still think The Cardiacs must have been taking notes from those songs. The slightly later demos are really good, showing how quickly they started writing great material. A lot of these ended up fleshed out on The Affectionate Punch but my personal favourite is Geese which is one of the simples and most catchy tunes they ever wrote. The second disc is also very mixed, there's some good stuff on there that he did with Alan Rankine but it sounds quite dated.

A few other tracks that are worth mentioning would be Pain In Any Language that he made with Apollo 440 in 1996, which is an epic electronic ballad. Ice Cream Factory released in 1982 as Ice Cream Factory Mackenzie Sings Orbidoig is another one-off single he did which is a really thrilling single. This is available on the Singles compilation put out a few years ago.

So as I said at the beginning of this rambling post: The essentials are The Affectionate Punch, Fourth Drawer Down, Sulk, both the BBC Radio One Sessions, Beyond The Sun, most of Perhaps and probably Double Hipness too. I would totally agree with the previous posts that there is so much to discover, buying their albums and singles was one of the most exciting periods of my life.

I have to disagree with Kitchen Person. I feel VERY strongly that , first: all of the songs on the ablum are top notch material. It's totally solid from a songwriting sense. While i feel the album was most definitely mis-produced overall I think Fire to Ice is on the best pop singles I"ve ever heard by any producer. Just a few listens on headphones and it becomes a relentless infection. Also the dissing of "Wild and Lonely" is unjust as well because it was the song i most immediately connected to on an emotional level. If one listens past the cheesy sequencing that seems to sit out front on most of the tracks, one hears Billy's exotic taste in soundscapes and also Billy's singing is sultry and very story-focused on this album . I would say it was the greatest album what I would say a little patience has rewarded me a lot on that album.

Lovely T-shirt for Billy MacKenzie devotees everywhere: http://www.redbubble.com/people/andrewnimmo/works/4189594-billy-mackenzie

They use American Apparel gear so nice cuts and feel. Mine got here (across the pond... in fact across a couple of ponds) in a matter of days.

Apparently based on a picture the photographer took of Billy in Dundee in 1985.

The Glamour Chase, a movie about Billy's life, is on youtube. So good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI-LhDW9LzU&feature=relmfu

Yeah, great documentary. The book it's based on is excellent.

what's with the dog statues? didn't notice til the end. i didn't know much about mackenzie, but that was quite good. too bad about him and rakine. and him and his mom... it's unnerving that her death could destroy him that completely...

They're whippets, and as the doc shows, he loved them dogs.

Never seen the documentary before. Just watching it reminds me all the reasons why he's my favourite ever popstar. Some great footage and the use of Nocturne VII at the end is truly heartbreaking.

I need to sit down one of these days to watch that Glamour Chase doco.

Anyway, have been on a bit of an Associates Youtube binge lately and came across this vid of Billy performing "You Only Live Twice". Had no idea he covered this - so great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhx9_rTsqk4

amusing bit at the end with Billy flirting outrageously with a very young, very smug-looking, obviously uncomfortable Jonathan Ross lol

I'll back up all the repping for the 'Glamour Chase' book upthread. I first read it 10 years ago just after first moving through to Dundee, was odd but nice reading a book that mentioned places I walked by every day - I lived a couple of streets from the Lyon Street flat, for example, and worked alongside people who'd known Billy to some extent.

Haven't seen if I still have my copy of the book. Not seen it in ages, and it may have been among a load of books stolen as I moved out of a place 10 years ago. Which means I should know one way or the other by now.
WAs interesting anyway, the beginning where he's wound up involved in the Howard Hughes case while travelling in the US. through the events surrounding the recording of the singles compiled on 4th Drawer Down etc etc very very good bio.

I think the lps have drifted out of print on cd again which is a major shame, the 00s reissues of Sulk, 4th Drawer Down & Affectionate Punch are all very worth getting hold of. I never got Double Hipness which i had meant to remedy but I don't think you can get it any more.

There was a compi video made of the band's tv appearances on the Yahoo list somewhere about 10 years ago that I wound up with a faulty copy of but should be good if you find a decent copy. I think bits of what's on it may be up on youtube anyway. Would like taht stuff in goood quality though. Wish somebody would release an official dvd compi with taht material on though.

& ALan Rankine is one half of the creative part of the band during the period that really counts. I think he's teaching at a Scottish university now.

Double Hipness is amazing.

Rankine teaches at Stow College, or did the last time I checked.

There was a showing of "The Glamour Chase" at the DCA in Dundee a couple of years back with a Q+A with Rankine (mentioned upthread), who mentioned that they'd just got the rights back to the recordings, not sure if all or just the early ones. No sign of anything happening with that though.

And just in case anyone is in the general vicinity of Dundee on Fri 10th May, a showing of The Glamour Chase to accompany the exhibition 'What Presence! The Rock Photography of Harry Papadopoulous' which will be running at the McMannus Galleries.

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/event/12937

I'm not one to believe in family curses or anything but what's happened to the Mackenzie family over the last fifteen years has been nothing short of wretched. After Billy's mother's death and then his suicide, his father passed on, I believe due to natural causes, but now three of his siblings have died due to accidents or other circumstances, the latest being a younger sister:

http://news.stv.tv/tayside/228944-associates-star-billy-mackenzies-sister-dies-in-flat-plunge/

I mean this is just awful.

That is terrible.

I found a cheap copy of the Glamour Chase recently in a charity shop. Glad I got it since I wasn't sure if I still had the other copy. & now reading this thread I already wasn't sure if I still had it whenever that was. & don't remember seeing it since.

Think this copy has a different sleeve too. Though I can't recall what the other one was like exactly.

For some reason 'Bap De La Bap' appeared in my head this morning and hasn't left it all day!

Just seeing the words Bap De La Bap on a screen make me want to put on that album right this second.

HOW DOES AN ANTELOPE FEEL WHEN IT'S GETTING CHASED!? THE SAME AS A MAN WITH A GEIGER POINTING IN HIS FACE!!

I've been bingeing so hard on Sulk over the last couple of days, that voice mixed with those songs and that production. Sublime, man.

Z IS THE BLACK SHEEP OF THE ALPHABET! Z IS THE MASCULIIIIIINE LETTEEEEEEER!

Why didn't MacKenzie and Martha Ladly have money thrown at them for the sake of hosting a variety program? Cripes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtHEYW23f6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTXquAe25vI

Ladly is even more badass now than she was then:

http://womenandtech.com/interview/martha-ladly/

Wow, thanks for that interview link!

I could watch those performances all day.

18 years since Billy died today.

You'd think someone in the middle of The Glamour Chase and a major Associates binge would be aware of that date! Coincidental bump.

Is "Voluntary Wishes, Swap It Production" a throwaway? It would have fit on the Sulk reissue.

Been going around in the context of the other groups he played with/for but John Murphy, who drummed for the band on the Fourth Drawer Down singles and the Sulk sessions, recently passed on. Almost a secret weapon of the band during that time, at once frenetic and capable of a focused discipline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGQkmIYLmsA

Sad news :( RIP.

The drumming has always been one of my favourite things about Sulk. I've always loved the way that the drum parts, particularly when he comes in for a fill, seem to teeter on the brink of falling apart entirely only for it to pull back at precisely the right moment.

He was fired during the sessions but I can't say I've been able to tell any difference -- possibly they just kept all his tracks and ran with it. And that's a great description of his work -- "Kitchen Person" also being a prime example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRZKUDXngqw

Deluxe reissues of the first three albums coming on May 6th.

does that mean a complete edition of the uk/usa mix-n-match versions of Sulk ?

Fantastic, you got any idea of tracklisting. & how deluxe these are going to be? The early 00ies cds were about dopuble in length with bonus tracks. But I keep thinking of Deluxe as 2cd possibly because the cds labelled Deluxe over teh last decade have been that.
& is 1st 3 Affectionate Punch, Sulk and 4th Drawer Down last of which is also a singles compilation.
DO hope other material follows including a comprehensive Rankine era Peel/BBC sessions set.
& a dvd would be welcome too.

I haven't seen the track listing yet so I'm not sure. I hope there's enough stuff on there so I can justify buying them. I've just offered to review them on the site I write for. I've only just got over the emotion of doing the Earl Brutus ones, this may all be too much for me.

Tracklistings here: http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/associates-two-cd-deluxe-editions/

As far as I can tell, here's what's new to CD if you already have the 2000 CD reissues:
The Affectionate Punch: Schmoltz / Would I Bounce Back (remix) / A (remix) - unless this is the single version / Amused As Always (remix) / The Affectionate Punch (remix)
Fourth Drawer Down: The Tree That Never Sang / Straw Towels (demo) / Q Quarters (demo)
Sulk: Club Country - if it's the original LP version / Club Country 12" / Party Fears Two (inst) / Skipping (alt) / Me, Myself And The Tragic Story - if it's a studio take and not the Peel session
Very Best Of: Eloise / Jukebox Bucharest

Couldn't they have put both versions of the 1st album together on one release? I've never heard the 2nd version.

Did they remix "The Affectionate Punch" entirely, or just some tracks? Is it possible the 4 remixes I noted above were the only changes?

I thought it was the entire album, and a lot more than remixed too. But I've never heard it, so I don't actually know.

They remixed the whole album. I tried to listen to it again last year and couldn't make it through the whole album. It's so bad.

I was hoping that 'The Affectionate Punch' would contain both versions, for completeness. I have the 2005 re-issue of the original on CD, which is my preferred one. I have the remix on vinyl but haven't listened to it in ages.

I recall the mixes being quite different but it's been a long time. Blown away by a borrowed cassette version first, then disappointed and underwhelmed by the CD reissue several years.

I did end up veyy much enjoying the CD, though

I got 'Even Dogs In The Wild' stuck in my head while reading all this talk about The Affectionate Punch and now I'm going to have to listen to that album immediately. Sulk is the one that always seems to get talked about, and deservedly so as it's a phenomenal record, but The Affectionate Punch is such a great collection of songs.

May you forever rest in peace, Billy, you wonderful bastard.

The remixes took a lot of the guitars out and replaced them with keyboards, not very good ones. I probably hadn't heard the remix version in over 10 years when I put it on last year. I was shocked by how much I disliked it. When I really got into them in 2000, I could only find the remix version so that's the one I knew for at least a year. I enjoyed it but then I found the original version at a record fair for 50p (my best find ever) which blew the remixes away. The guitars on the record sounded amazing and suited the songs so much better. I think it was A and Would I.. Bounce Back that sounded the most different.

Agree with you there Turrican, Sulk is their masterpiece but The Affectionate Punch is an incredible album too. Both 10/10 records for me.

I have a real soft spot for 'Perhaps'..."Breakfast" is just a lovely thing...

I think the Rankine years are the apex.
& his guitar is really krautrocky.
I wonder what reason was given at the time for the extensive AP remix?

Buying that daft remix version put me off getting into Associates properly for many years.

Wonder if that remixed version of Tell Me Easter's On Sunday will be going on the best of. Somehow I suspect it won't.